It's early Wednesday morning, which means it's time for another round of The Blame Game!!!

Today's crash was sent to me via email. You can find the email address at the end of the episode or at http://batracer.tripod.com/theblamegame .

You have 6 options, like last time, to vote for who you think got it wrong, or other reasons. Watch it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38Ehlu2HZI

Think carefully, then vote in the poll!

Also, post in the thread and voice your opinion, (edit) but please do not mention specific drivers in the thread as it can cause arguments

Clearly it is driver B's fault, the only time you should pass before a turn is if you're door to door with them, if not then you should drop back and try again at a later time.

Look at it this way for the people that aren't sure: If you take out drivers one by one, if you take one out and see the accident wouldn't have happened, then that is who caused it. So if driver B wasn't there in the first place to hit the red car, it wouldn't have happened.

B didn't have an overlap before the turn-in point, didn't seem to have slowed down enough for the corner when he got there. B again.

I wish he'd taken a few more of those oval racing chumps out though.

Driver B - no significant overlap and braking too late to be in full control.

Quote from XCNuse :

Look at it this way for the people that aren't sure: If you take out drivers one by one, if you take one out and see the accident wouldn't have happened, then that is who caused it. So if driver B wasn't there in the first place to hit the red car, it wouldn't have happened.

However, the Car C would have still made contact with car A, even if car B had not been there. After watching this crash hundreds of times over, I believe that driver A would have still spun so... it's difficult.

The red car would have made that turn cleanly if it weren't bumped.

Since the yellow car, B, tried to make a move it is his fault because of the fact he tried to make a move, but didn't keep in mind he is going to fast to be able to make that turn.

Now if the black car, whatever you're calling it, A?, if that cut a small apex with the red car there, and the red car bumped it, then it would be the red car's fault for not slowing down because the black car is ahead of it; but if the black car fell behind and tipped the red car, it would be the black car's fault.

It's whoever is ahead the farthest has the hierarchy.

Could it be driver C since he did not even give enough room for B in the turn?

Quote from XCNuse :

The red car would have made that turn cleanly if it weren't bumped.

Since the yellow car, B, tried to make a move it is his fault because of the fact he tried to make a move, but didn't keep in mind he is going to fast to be able to make that turn.

Now if the black car, whatever you're calling it, A?, if that cut a small apex with the red car there, and the red car bumped it, then it would be the red car's fault for not slowing down because the black car is ahead of it; but if the black car fell behind and tipped the red car, it would be the black car's fault.

It's whoever is ahead the farthest has the hierarchy.

I guess that's the logical way of thinking about it! Can't really argue with the logic. But I always think there is more to it than that. We shall see in 6 days anywhoo.

I mean that is just the general rule of thumb, technically it could be anyone's fault.

It's like a T bone accident, if one car wasn't there, it wouldn't happen, but who can you blame if neither car should be there when it happens?

Quote from XCNuse :

I mean that is just the general rule of thumb, technically it could be anyone's fault.

It's like a T bone accident, if one car wasn't there, it wouldn't happen, but who can you blame if neither car should be there when it happens?

I guess that's why you could call it a racing incident.

Upon looking again, I feel that driver C (red) should have looked in his mirrors an noticed that green (B) was probably going to make a lunge and left some room, but he was already committed in looking up the inside of driver A. This is actually a lot tougher to call than I first thought, in my opinion!

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I guess that's why you could call it a racing incident.

Upon looking again, I feel that driver C (red) should have looked in his mirrors an noticed that green (B) was probably going to make a lunge and left some room, but he was already committed in looking up the inside of driver A. This is actually a lot tougher to call than I first thought, in my opinion!

i agree with you that driver C should have given more room.

Quote from ans7812 :

Could it be driver C since he did not even give enough room for B in the turn?

C wasn't obliged to give B room because B wasn't overlapping him (i.e. he wasn't alongside him enough). A general rule of thumb is that you should be roughly halfway alongside a car before you can consider yourself far enough up to expect to be given room. B wasn't even alongside the rear bumper of C when he started braking. Another thing is that it looks like B started braking and them came off the brakes in order to try and force the pass (this is clearly visible on the overhead shot). Even if C had given B enough room for the corner I don't think B would have been able to brake enough to make the corner.

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

committed

That's it right there, that's the word that I've been looking for, being committed is what can either cause or not cause accidents.

It's hesitation that causes accidents.

Oh well, enough for me on this thread, I think I gave my pointers on what happened, see you next week.

Quote from amp88 :

C wasn't obliged to give B room because B wasn't overlapping him (i.e. he wasn't alongside him enough). A general rule of thumb is that you should be roughly halfway alongside a car before you can consider yourself far enough up to expect to be given room. B wasn't even alongside the rear bumper of C when he started braking. Another thing is that it looks like B started braking and them came off the brakes in order to try and force the pass. Even if C had given B enough room for the corner I don't think B would have been able to brake enough to make the corner.

i guess you're right in saying that he braked late in order to try and catch up. It does make sense that Driver B should not be obliged to give him room since he was no where near passing to begin with...

Quote from amp88 :

Another thing is that it looks like B started braking and them came off the brakes in order to try and force the pass (this is clearly visible on the overhead shot).

I think he actually accelerated for a brief moment! You can hear the engine revs increase slightly at that point. Another valuable point in finding out why this happened.

Quote from XCNuse :

That's it right there, that's the word that I've been looking for, being committed is what can either cause or not cause accidents.

It's hesitation that causes accidents.

Oh well, enough for me on this thread, I think I gave my pointers on what happened, see you next week.

Thanks for the input!

I voted racing, because i felt a little bit of all of them contributed.

B - probably bit too optimistic, couldn't get slowed safely
C - again, a bit out of control
A - it almost appears he brakes early throwing the other two off.

Mostly B, but enough question/shared responsibility.

edit -> yeah, it was b, though C, B took a totally terrible racing line

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I think he actually accelerated for a brief moment! You can hear the engine revs increase slightly at that point. Another valuable point in finding out why this happened.

It could be an idea to put the pedal and steering display overlay on the video to let us see what each of the drivers was doing in detail. In the V8 Supercars series each of the cars is equipped with an onboard camera and data recorder (which monitors throttle, brake and speed among other things) which can be used by the stewards and driving standards observer in the event of a crash to try and untangle exactly what happened.

Quote from amp88 :

It could be an idea to put the pedal and steering display overlay on the video to let us see what each of the drivers was doing in detail. In the V8 Supercars series each of the cars is equipped with an onboard camera and data recorder (which monitors throttle, brake and speed among other things) which can be used by the stewards and driving standards observer in the event of a crash to try and untangle exactly what happened.

I will do that for next time, if necessary. I need to keep improving

clearly b ... he didnt even have a hin of overlap at turn in and no chance of making the turn on that line and speed

i am however inclined to yet again blame all of them for racing ovals

I says it Driver B since everyone seems to says that it's him

On an immediate/knee jerk reaction it's B, although I am thinking B may be a red herring, and it's actually C.

However, I would say that it would make it easier to make an informed decision if the video was downloadable, and therefore higher quality and also if the "pedals" were shown.

Driver B, due steering in to Driver C, which Driver C then full on whacked Driver A.

i think it was driver B