Well with grip, then no grip issue could be summed as a tire issue. The tires in NASCAR use a tire specifically meant to handle the forces generated by running around an oval which is significantly higher than on a road coarse where the track is reletivly flat.

Not saying their are less forces involved with road racing, but the amount of load a sidewall is taking in stockcar racing is significantly higher thus requiring a stiffer sidewall which will give you a lower slip angle on a roadcoarse, which is what you are describing.

What I am saying is that if you adjust the suspension to perform under the different conditions they are the same as a GT car. I know when the road racers run with the NASCAR guys at the road course events they say that the stockcars perform on-par with their GT cars. Last I heard anyways.

My model was modified to the local Sport Stock class, so it would be 3000lb (1360.7771 kg) wet, on 8 inch wide slicks, and i specced it with the largest crate engine i could find, a Chevrolet 572 CID V8, Making 720 HP and 685 lb.-ft. of torque. Also the class mandates no spoilers or undertrays.

Of course it's gonna turn around on you if you just slam your foot in it. Set the suspension geometry correctly and it should be fine on roadcourses if you don't drive like an idiot.

all i can say for the people who think.. "Think" that stock cars have imence grip and just turn left, is try a nascar racing game. you will not know whats hit you. appart from a huge wall

its harder than you think, and alot more fun than you think

nicely done owen. but the wheel is on the wrong side though...

btw. how did you do that model? in which program?

+1, would be a decent idea. Although i would much rather the devs concentrate on the more important stuff, but eventually it would be a cracking idea.

Quote from fragile_dog :

I would say its the other way round. Most americans won't consider another form of Racing, since nascar seems to be the only really popular series. Whilst in europe loads of people tune in to watch F1, Rally, Touring cars etc. Seems to be more different forms of racing that are popular in europe, then in the states.

Now I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to drive on a proper oval with a proper stock car, but to me it is pretty boring to watch, BTCC is alot more fun, same close racing but just better to watch, and some of the drivers are nutters. Im just saying don't call europeans close minded. Oh and UK has drag as well....

Well, biggest problem in europe or at least in germany is that there is no TV Channel except for payTV that is broadcasting nascar-, indy-, dirt-, mud-, whatever- racing. I think that the main reason for this circumstance is that there are too many of these people which are responsible for the program think the same way as you have just mentioned. I just dont get it and i cant imagine that, if broadcasted it wouldn't be watched at all. Thats absurd from my pov because i think most of the people that would watch european motorsports would also consider watching americans wouldn't they?

What i also do not understand is, and i did said that many times before in simular threads is why some of the people have got such a irrepressibly urge to spread their trash around here, most of them without any knowledge about it and start bashing around while they would have had the possibility to ignore the content just like they ignored the constructive opinions regarding this topic.

Well..whatever.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

Figured i would Post my Support on this topic, with a Nice +1.

Also figured i would post a link to the specifications of the classes at my local track. http://www.columbusspeedway.com/asp/2007/Default.asp

There's really no reason a Stock car cannot be raced on a road course, provided it is not built with an Assymetrical chassis.

Only a couple of different setup options would be needed, and not even neccisarily NEEDED, just helpful. Corner by Corner tire compoud settings and toe. MAYBE stagger (set this to 0 for road courses)

A few different types of Oval would make these cars and others shine. Contrary to the common belief not all ovals are huge like the Kyoto Ring. And many of the more wel known courses also offer a roadcourse configuration.

Educate yourself before you say youre opposed to something. And don't post negatively unless it would actually cause harm. Your choice not to use something doesn't make it a bad idea, just of no benefit to you personally.

As for ovals being for those who can't drive... you obviously don't know what youre talking about. Juan Pablo Montoya didn't get into Formula 1 without being a good driver (although he might have seemed that way compared to the people outshining him). He's finding Nextel Cup quite a challenge.

Hey Keiichi, You rock! +50,000 kudos for you! As usual, someone with a japanese kicks butt

Quote from 510N3D :

Well, biggest problem in europe or at least in germany is that there is no TV Channel except for payTV that is broadcasting nascar-, indy-, dirt-, mud-, whatever- racing. I think that the main reason for this circumstance is that there are too many of these people which are responsible for the program think the same way as you have just mentioned. I just dont get it and i cant imagine that, if broadcasted it wouldn't be watched at all. Thats absurd from my pov because i think most of the people that would watch european motorsports would also consider watching americans wouldn't they?

What i also do not understand is, and i did said that many times before in simular threads is why some of the people have got such a irrepressibly urge to spread their trash around here, most of them without any knowledge about it and start bashing around while they would have had the possibility to ignore the content just like they ignored the constructive opinions regarding this topic.

Well..whatever.

Tee heee

Quote from fragile_dog :

I would say its the other way round. Most americans won't consider another form of Racing, since nascar seems to be the only really popular series. Whilst in europe loads of people tune in to watch F1, Rally, Touring cars etc. Seems to be more different forms of racing that are popular in europe, then in the states.

Now I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to drive on a proper oval with a proper stock car, but to me it is pretty boring to watch, BTCC is alot more fun, same close racing but just better to watch, and some of the drivers are nutters. Im just saying don't call europeans close minded. Oh and UK has drag as well....

3rd person to say "americans only watch Nascar"!

What about the Cart (Indy) series? Damned popular you know. And america is equally big in drag racing as anyone else! (NHRA Being the biggest)

And YES, america does watch F1, if they aren't watching Indy!

I prefer F1 over Indy though.

Quote from MIDWINTER :

atleast pick good tracks and cars to add, ovals are for people who cant drive or americans because they dont know the defenition on 'corner' propperly......let alone ever hearsd of a chicane, and nascars.......what other track could you use them on? atleast add cars to the game that have more than 1 use on 1 track.... i think that the basics of this idea are good but the car choice just wouldn't be fair, especialy to true racers who go round things called 'hairpins' or chiccanes i dont see a nascar getting around aston somehow.............

-1000......its not a suggestion or sensible update that 50% or more of lfs racers would enjoy....

Oval is 100X more complicated than you think! It is just as hard as any track, but there is no point explaining it to you. Ignorance is what gets your cat killed, curiosity will give your cat a world record!!

Quote from CodieMorgan :

3rd person to say "americans only watch Nascar"!

What about the Cart (Indy) series? Damned popular you know. And america is equally big in drag racing as anyone else! (NHRA Being the biggest)

And YES, america does watch F1, if they aren't watching Indy!

I prefer F1 over Indy though.

Also not to mention that Brazil has it's own popular stock car series and quite a few latin american and canadians watch it too

Quote from lizardfolk :

Also not to mention that Brazil has it's own popular stock car series and quite a few latin american and canadians watch it too

Brazilian Stock Cars.. I gotta check out those chassis.. must be cool! (note to only the ignorant europeans: stock cars come in many forms, to the rest of ya euros, rockon to these things)

Actually my name is Owen, the name is a bit of an inside joke in my home town

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

Actually my name is Owen, the name is a bit of an inside joke in my home town

Ohhh,,,,

Quote from MIDWINTER :

atleast pick good tracks and cars to add, ovals are for people who cant drive or americans because they dont know the defenition on 'corner' propperly......let alone ever hearsd of a chicane, and nascars.......what other track could you use them on? atleast add cars to the game that have more than 1 use on 1 track.... i think that the basics of this idea are good but the car choice just wouldn't be fair, especialy to true racers who go round things called 'hairpins' or chiccanes i dont see a nascar getting around aston somehow.............

-1000......its not a suggestion or sensible update that 50% or more of lfs racers would enjoy....

If you put it that way, then circuits are for people who cant drive oval 0.0!

Codie, from now on, please use the multiquote function, that is the little "+ you see next to the quickreply button.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Most of the europeans I've meet aren't like that. Oh and just because they have the sport doesnt mean it's popular. I mean canada has CASCAR and it wasn't hardly watched.

Still I think i blew too much steam from my response so I'll apologize if I seriously offended anyone.

All in all I think the bashing goes both ways. We seriously need to stop insulting ofter forms of motorsports just because we dont watch them.

lol i admit i was ignorant alot! but i asked nearly every1 i know who plays this game and not one of them said they would go on those servers unless they were relee bored or one of the more popular severs like cone dodgers or their own was down, fair enough americans and other countries into nascar/stock car would like it but on the lfsw the majority of players are europoean and nascar, stock car etc isnt seen to be very exciting in europe atleast, and yes i agree with both views some europoeans think americans are ignorant and some americans think europoeans are, i guess your both right when someone feels strongly about something they do become (too) ignorant for their own good, and i will also apologise if i offended anyone its just i honestly couldn't find anyone to totally agree with this ssuggestion and i feel there are way more, important and worldwide sugestions that could be made although it could just be what me and most of the people i know + some of the people who posted similar replies as me think.... sorry if i ofended any1 ppl

It is true that most europeans do not like oval racing (whether it's stock car or indy or w/e). However, there are quite a few Americans on LFS (it's probably just the ones that I hang out with because of the time zones) and they'd all like ovals and stock cars

I really honestly dont know why there's such a giant schism between the racing fans on ovals. I mean you really dont get this kind of thing anywhere else (be it rally or drag). But then again rally drag and road course communities dont really mix.

Despite having a poor view on oval racing, there's one undeniable fact about ovals. Ovals offer closer racing because the track is wide and.....well.....easier. It's also more challenging because it's easy to get lapped. (A lot easier then a road course).

If you dont like ovals or you think ovals are boring. Fine, your entitled to your opinion. However, do go bashing on oval fans just because they have a different taste in racing. Ovals are not for the rejected, they require a totally different type of racer (just like drag and rally also require two totally different type of racer).

I mean the same "argument" can be said about drag. OOOOOO YOU GO IN A STRAIGHT LINE WHOOP DE DOO.

Again, I like ovals for the close racing, and the stock cars make the racing even closer. I really dont care how hard the track is (and maybe that's why I dont find it boring). To me, the racing is much more important then the difficulty of the track.

Again if you dont like it, fine, but dont go insulting every single discipline that's different then the one you like. (This last sentence is to everyone who bashes everything they "find boring".)

one thing that most (oval haters) people keep forgetting about ovals....

Dont underestimate the line! Ill bet 78% off the community will do just that!

Got the stock car style wheels on it and added 2 Katt exhaust pipes with turndowns at the end, like mandated by the Sport Stock regulations. Gonna take someone more skilled than me to replace the interior and get rid of the front spoilers

That is nice, wouldn't mind driving it.

But anyway. I think that most LFSers don't like oval racing because it really blows in LFS at the moment. Typically the car of choice has been the fastest available, which gets boring if you can keep your foot down for the whole race. Not even to mention the bad servers (no names) which gave the oval racing a bad name since the beginning, they demanded to spectate if you crashed and all kind of crazy stuff which was ridiculous and not even to mention that the combo usually lures all the newbies in. Which meant carnage. Restarts because the admin said so, and more restarts. So, it might have retarded reputation in the eyes of most people.

Personally, I don't like combos I can't miss my braking points and crash.
Oval racing in LFS is like that. Few more types of ovals and a stock car wouldn't hurt a bit, I'd love it.

But, I think we also need some physic updates to make oval racing a bit more exciting. Aero model should be improved to create more realistic drafting, not to mention overheating of your engine! This applies to track racing too of course.

Oddly enough with the general attitude toward ovals, they would see the most benefit from physics refinement, since the oval tends to produce the extreme extents of what you would see being produced in the game engine.

Most g-force, most speed, most use of the aero engine, most load on tires.


Now, just a question but does anyone have a problem with the V8 for this car being provided by XR Autosport, since thier logo already appears at the kyoto ring?


Edit: Currently the best racing to be had on the oval in LFS are street tired cars and the FO8. Fo8 produces side by side racing, if theres not a rule to prohibit tussling over positions. and the street tired cars require that you actually think about cornering

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

Got the stock car style wheels on it and added 2 Katt exhaust pipes with turndowns at the end, like mandated by the Sport Stock regulations. Gonna take someone more skilled than me to replace the interior and get rid of the front spoilers

W00t, that looks brilliant, damn nice work!
+1 for that thingy

Changed the skin, because i actually need some help from a skinner.
I'm gonna upload the tire skin here. Lets see who can make the Shinozooka racing slicks.

Shinozooka because they have thier logo on the billboards at the oval.

Also, who makes rims in LFS?

Quote from Blackout :

That is nice, wouldn't mind driving it.

But anyway. I think that most LFSers don't like oval racing because it really blows in LFS at the moment. Typically the car of choice has been the fastest available, which gets boring if you can keep your foot down for the whole race. Not even to mention the bad servers (no names) which gave the oval racing a bad name since the beginning, they demanded to spectate if you crashed and all kind of crazy stuff which was ridiculous and not even to mention that the combo usually lures all the newbies in. Which meant carnage. Restarts because the admin said so, and more restarts. So, it might have retarded reputation in the eyes of most people.

Personally, I don't like combos I can't miss my braking points and crash.
Oval racing in LFS is like that. Few more types of ovals and a stock car wouldn't hurt a bit, I'd love it.

You have obviously no clue what you are talking about and you can consider yourself to the kind of persons i have described in my other post in this thread.

Quote from Blackout :

But, I think we also need some physic updates to make oval racing a bit more exciting. Aero model should be improved to create more realistic drafting, not to mention overheating of your engine! This applies to track racing too of course.

cant agree more on that one. Oval would be even more challenging and i also think that curcuit racers, especially those who likes to drive the BF1 will definitely benefit from that.

Quote from 510N3D :

You have obviously no clue what you are talking about and you can consider yourself to the kind of persons i have described in my other post in this thread.

Ok...care to elaborate what do you mean. I don't want to argue this in the usual oval vs. circuit way because it's useless.

And what, you don't want more tracks and cars?

Quote :

cant agree more on that one. Oval would be even more challenging and i also think that curcuit racers, especially those who likes to drive the BF1 will definitely benefit from that.

Yes, that what I meant. Everybody would benefit from those improvements, obviously. And like mentioned, many faults in LFS physics are highlighted in the extreme conditions you have on oval track.

Quote from 510N3D :

You have obviously no clue what you are talking about and you can consider yourself to the kind of persons i have described in my other post in this thread.

No offence but i feel his comment about the server was 90% correct

Quote from Blackout :

But anyway. I think that most LFSers don't like oval racing because it really blows in LFS at the moment. Typically the car of choice has been the fastest available, which gets boring if you can keep your foot down for the whole race. Not even to mention the bad servers (no names) which gave the oval racing a bad name since the beginning, they demanded to spectate if you crashed and all kind of crazy stuff which was ridiculous and not even to mention that the combo usually lures all the newbies in. Which meant carnage. Restarts because the admin said so, and more restarts. So, it might have retarded reputation in the eyes of most people.

The server is a good idea, and with good racers it can be fun, but because of people being lured in by "200 MPH side by side racing" when actually they can barely do 20 safely rules like "Shift+S After Crash" are brought in because for guys like Failure tons of their races are ruined by the n00b who caught the draft at the start and failed miserably at racing with the leaders.

I must say that while i hate the rule, i understand why it's there.

Oval in road cars (Ie TBO's) can be quite fun, as you can make more mistakes, whereas in the BF1 you either get the right line, or you eat wall. Just wish the FO8 was used as an Oval Car, at least thats a little... harder than the BF1.

Quote from Blackout :

That is nice, wouldn't mind driving it.

But anyway. I think that most LFSers don't like oval racing because it really blows in LFS at the moment. Typically the car of choice has been the fastest available, which gets boring if you can keep your foot down for the whole race. Not even to mention the bad servers (no names) which gave the oval racing a bad name since the beginning, they demanded to spectate if you crashed and all kind of crazy stuff which was ridiculous and not even to mention that the combo usually lures all the newbies in. Which meant carnage. Restarts because the admin said so, and more restarts. So, it might have retarded reputation in the eyes of most people.

Personally, I don't like combos I can't miss my braking points and crash.
Oval racing in LFS is like that. Few more types of ovals and a stock car wouldn't hurt a bit, I'd love it.

But, I think we also need some physic updates to make oval racing a bit more exciting. Aero model should be improved to create more realistic drafting, not to mention overheating of your engine! This applies to track racing too of course.

its comments like these that makes oval racing having his bad reputation in lfs. in every other racing game where you can race on ovals, the same rules applie there. if you crash your car you should go to spectate just to be fair to the other people on track OR they have a working pacecar procedure integrated. there is no sense in driving around on an oval with a broken suspension. the problem is: in lfs the pits will repair that kind of demage so people think they can go on and make it to the pits. in other racing sims, a broken suspension is a broken suspension. retire or be kicked...

but you've got your point there: this discussion is useless with someone who does not see that you can't apply circuit racing rules to oval racing rules and vice versa in 100%.

the problem with lfs and the oval is, we don't have a proper car. i am damn sure with a 800bhp stock car you would not be able to go flat out on kyoto oval (sure you would not brake into the turns because its a speedway and not a short track). you will need to lift into the turns, otherwise you loose your rear end and thats it. imo driving the fz5 through turn 3 is the closest you can get at the moment (but not because of the right car, its just the weight of the motor in the back) but its a close feeling when you loose the rear end. compared to other sims...

anyway, i see your points and your dislike of ovals but i don'T see any argument in there...

Quote from Fischfix :

its comments like these that makes oval racing having his bad reputation in lfs. in every other racing game where you can race on ovals, the same rules applie there. if you crash your car you should go to spectate just to be fair to the other people on track OR they have a working pacecar procedure integrated. there is no sense in driving around on an oval with a broken suspension. the problem is: in lfs the pits will repair that kind of demage so people think they can go on and make it to the pits. in other racing sims, a broken suspension is a broken suspension. retire or be kicked...

Well, I just can't stand cars vanishing in thin air in front of me, it doesn't actually have anything to do with oval racing when I think of it, I think the same if I'm racing on any track. It's just that it was so strictly enforced on oval servers it was no fun looking all the shouting and anger and shouting.
I don't mind people telepporting to specatate when nobody is near.

And I don't understand how my comment makes oval racing have a bad name, I was just speculating why people might not like it and gave possible reasons based on my experiences and why I keep a distance to oval.

Quote :

but you've got your point there: this discussion is useless with someone who does not see that you can't apply circuit racing rules to oval racing rules and vice versa in 100%.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but how are the rules different? Well, if not talking about LFS where servers have their own rules, but how they are different in real life, isn't racing always racing?

Quote :

the problem with lfs and the oval is, we don't have a proper car. i am damn sure with a 800bhp stock car you would not be able to go flat out on kyoto oval (sure you would not brake into the turns because its a speedway and not a short track). you will need to lift into the turns, otherwise you loose your rear end and thats it. imo driving the fz5 through turn 3 is the closest you can get at the moment (but not because of the right car, its just the weight of the motor in the back) but its a close feeling when you loose the rear end. compared to other sims...

Yes, I'd like to have a proper car too and as I said, an oval where you had to brake would be much more fun than the current speedway we have.

Quote :

anyway, i see your points and your dislike of ovals but i don'T see any argument in there...

Well, dunno if there really was meant to be an argument. Other than it doesn't matter what things are but what people think they are, and that proper car and tracks (ovals) are needed to make ova racing more fun.