Back on topic guys.....

Best time will probably be a 56.x (by lfsn00b) (Yeah, I know....)

DK

You overestimate yourself Leprekaun.
It's not only about how much training you got, an important factor is talent.

I've raced you several times and you're about my pace, but bawbag or reppohc are driving on a much higher level, even with less training and a worse set they would still be faster than you.

Guys. LAY OFF LEP. Please.

DK

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Guys. LAY OFF LEP. Please.

DK

Look at what he's posting, he has the complete wrong idea about how anything works, i'm actually quite surprised to see he's putting down any time he loses to someone else on setup!

Btw, no one has to proove anything to you if they chose not to, or send you setups, but just out of interest i'm going to use the setup you provided later and have a go at the layout.

Btw, i've only had about 10 goes on the layout and very few were actually successfull.

Quote from MrSkill :

You overestimate yourself Leprekaun.
It's not only about how much training you got, an important factor is talent.

I've raced you several times and you're about my pace, but bawbag or reppohc are driving on a much higher level, even with less training and a worse set they would still be faster than you.

I see. Well, let me lead you to a few quotes here.
"Style improves with time, nobody is born with it." -- Juan-Manuel Fangio

"Quite often on the track when I want to go faster, I don't drive any faster, I just concentrate harder - which makes me go faster. By concentrating on the braking, by concentrating on the way through the corner, by concentrating on the amount of throttle I can get on out of the corner. Just by concentrating that little bit harder all round." -- Jim Clark


"On a given day, a given circumstance. You think you have a limit. You then go for this limit and you touch this limit and you think 'Ok, this is the limit'. As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct and the expereience as well... you can fly very high" -- Ayrton Senna

Lemme also say, there is no such thing as just being fast (you're so called "talent"). FYI, I'm a very modest person when it comes to commenting on my driving and you can ask some of my friends around here and they'll tell you that. In terms of being confident, I know I'm capable of being as fast as Ray or even for a higher aim, being the fastest racer in the LFSW. Capability and actually being that are far apart, I know that I'm far away from being the best but I would consider myself an average player in the LFS community in terms of my driving ability. Jonesy, if you go on thinking that someone else is better, would you not lose the drive to try and beat them because you know that they're better than you due to some divine intervention? would you not go crazy?. I believe that ANY driver, and I mean ANY driver can be the best, we're all capable of doing it. The factor that divides those who are insanely fast and those who are extremely slow is down to the determination, experience and understanding of the driver. Its basically about the will to improve or to be the best. I know I want to be the best and that drive is increasingly getting stronger everytime I improve. Call it sad if you like but I know that for sure, Senna, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Alonso, Raikonnen (the list goes on and on) all wanted or want to be the best. As Senna said in this interview (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ko94oniszuA): "We are competing to win and the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, its not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel its possible. I race designed to win". So there you have it, thats how Senna looks at it and thats how I look at it too. This doesn't mean that I'd do exactly what Senna used to do when he made contact with other drivers, no, I believe in racing with nobility and respect towards other drivers.

You lads have missed my point. Have a look at this part of my post:

"I never stated that setup is the sole reason for someone being faster over another, a lot of it is to do with track time as well as car time(how much you've driven that car) so to me, its no surprise that Ray is able to drive really quickly as he is the hotlap rank leader so I'd say he's driven the LX4 the fair bit."

Sorry to break it to you but your quotes proove nothing but ignorance.

Quote from MrSkill :

bawbag or reppohc are driving on a much higher level, even with less training and a worse set they would still be faster than you.

+1

It's a common, and convenient, misconception that the fastest drivers are simply the ones that practice most. Everyone has a limit, practice only helps you fulfil your own potential (which is what the drivers in your quotes are referring to Lep).

Right ok, you lads go on believing what you believe. Senna himself stated that when he was very young whilst racing in karts, he was usually a back marker because everyone else was more "experienced" then he was but as time went on, he came to beat them so its quite obvious that there was "talent" involved there .

Quote from Leprekaun :

Right ok, you lads go on believing what you believe. Senna himself stated that when he was very young whilst racing in karts, he was usually a back marker because everyone else was more "experienced" then he was but as time went on, he came to beat them so its quite obvious that there was "talent" involved there .

I cannot believe you really think that. Do you truly think that if you and Ayrton Senna had been given equal opportunities, you would be as good as he was?

Quote from Leprekaun :

^ Thats harsh Kev, real harsh .

For my sins, I spend a lot of my time browsing these forums instead of doing what I should be doing (work), and I've seen a lot of boastful posts from you lately. If you were just a bit more humble you wouldn't attract reactions like mine.

Quote from Leprekaun :

Those who believe that some drivers are JUST better than others is a load of cr*p IMO.

IMO you're wrong. Do you think you I could be the best violinist in the world if I put enough effort in? How many kids in school do their absolute best and still get beaten by smarter kids who don't even try?

Quote from sinbad :

It's a common, and convenient, misconception that the fastest drivers are simply the ones that practice most.

If it were true, how would those drivers (in LFS) often turn up at any given server and knock a second or more off the average scrub's PB within five laps - I doubt this is because they've practiced that combo a lot. I remember when a handful of Mercury drivers would turn up on the Odd Combo Club (clue is in the name) server after we'd been there an hour or more and by race two they'd be mauling all of us!

Lep, you have done 20 thousand miles more than this person....

http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=stats&racer=modoff

Modoff is an example of someone who hasn't played the game much but i could easily guarntee that he would beat you in a race. (Even with less 'experience' than you)

Leprekaun actually makes a good point. Talent is overrated IMO.

I disagree with him when he says ANYONE can be the best, but if you go around thinking that you will never beat "so and so" because they are simply better than you, that won't get you anywhere.

There is no driver who is the best and doesn't believe he/she could be. "Aliens" are only human just like you or me, and to beat them, you must believe that you can beat them.

As for everyone hits there own limit, that's wrong. If they think they can't go faster than they probably won't. However if they believe they still can, and look at what they are doing wrong etc, then they will go quicker. Of course it all takes practice and determination though.

Quote from DaveWS :

As for everyone hits there own limit, that's wrong. If they think they can't go faster than they probably won't. However if they believe they still can, and look at what they are doing wrong etc, then they will go quicker. Of course it all takes practice and determination though.

But 10 people with the same track time and experience will all find different "maximums", and not everyone (however positive their attitude) will be able to improve to the same extent. Look at golfers. There are people that play semi-pro (high-standard) golf all their life, and they'll never be the best. There are players starting out that will be as confident as anyone, but they won't make it. They just don't have "it".

Talent is not "overrated". It's a basis that you work from. If you lack talent, you'll never reach the heights of someone with it in spades. Unfortunately, we aren't all made from the same mould.

Quote from Leprekaun :

I'll post the setup here and you guys can have a go with it but please, for proof, post up a replay of you doing one of those magnificent low 1:03s or possibly high 1:02s with it.

Done. Because Im bored and dont have much else to do I took up your challenge... and rofl, your set is actually pretty decent! Took me about 10 minutes to come to terms with it as it has some funky brakes/steering/gears compared to what im using...[I only use second gear for the whole track]. I did a few mid 2's but hit one or two cones on the way through. Could easily go faster with more practice [only 10 minutes?!]. I actually might use some of its settings in my own set... cheers

Quote from Leprekaun :

I mean, it doesn't hurt to share setups lads. I mean, sure for a league, its different because theres a lot at stake and I understand as well that this is a competition, not a fun run thing but something which I realise is that someone who's afraid to share his/her setup is someone who fears that another person can maximise it over them, putting them at a disadvantage. If someone is really confident and they believe they've extracted the maximum from the car then why should they worry about what others can do with that setup?

Its funny you say that as I actually always share my setup for league races. To answer your question, No I'm not confident that I've extracted the max from this set. Heck I'm confident in the right hands it can do a 1:00. I'm not as talented as the fast guys, and I'll take any advantage I can over them. And when you start talking about real prizes the stakes go up even more! If my set really means that much to you I will post it.

Quote from Leprekaun :

So in conclusion , Reppoh, if you can prove to me that its mostly to do with driving, then why aren't you willing to share your setup?

Hopefully my replay can show you [and everyone else?] where you are losing time... Heck I know after watching the WR lap on any combo I usually take huge chunks out of my pb... I really don't think Im that talented especially when Im put alongside people like bawbag. I'm pretty confident anyone can get into the 2's though, it really isn't that hard. People often try to gain time in the wrong places, but if you just concentrate on a good line, traction on exit out of corners, etc, your bound to start setting good times. I'm still waiting for the aliens to hit the track and get into the 1:00's.

Quote from sinbad :

There are people that play semi-pro (high-standard) golf all their life, and they'll never be the best. There are players starting out that will be as confident as anyone, but they won't make it. They just don't have "it".

Granted if you have more "talent", you can get better quicker, but "less-talented" people can still get there, it just may take longer and more effort. But the golfers you talk about will never get better because they think they won't / can't get any better. Put it this way, I've never thought to myself, "I can't do that" unless it was physically impossible for me to do so.

Edit: In the AutoX competition, after the first few days I couldn't get under 1:06.11 after many many laps. I rethought a day or so later, looked at how I could improve, and shaved another 2 seconds off. I'm no god, but neither is anyone else, which is why 20 odd people are quicker than me at the moment.

If you can give me a logicial explanation to why talent is purely based on natural ability and whilst drivers like Fangio and Senna (read this quote carefully: "On a given day, a given circumstance. You think you have a limit. You then go for this limit and you touch this limit and you think 'Ok, this is the limit'. As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct and the expereience as well... you can fly very high" -- Ayrton Senna) and Fangio's quote about style improving over time.

Look at the end of the day, I want to mention 2 things, first of all, I don't appreciate others saying that I'm a shit driver because I know I'm very good (modesty mode: off) and secondly, so our opinions differ but I know that for a FACT that no driver just jumps in a game for their first time and can be amazingly fast.

Btw, Ray, didn't we used to exchange last place back in ERRC days?

Quote from Leprekaun :

if you go on thinking that someone else is better, would you not lose the drive to try and beat them because you know that they're better than you due to some divine intervention? would you not go crazy?.

I KNOW that Bawbag (actually all Mercury driversand probably also all Muroc, SK, n! etc. drivers) are better than me and that I will never beat them in a normal race. Doesnt matter how much I practice if one of them joins a server he will be faster than me on that combo after max. 10 laps.

But I havent gone crazy because of this (at least I would think so ). I surely wont go crazy about a computer game (simulation). I want to have FUN with it, not be "the best". And Im having as much fun if not more driving close for position 5 to 10 with the occasional top 3 finish as I would have winning every race by a big margin.

Quote :

I've never thought to myself, "I can't do that"

I often think "I can't do that" about my own racing, and then every now and then I'll completely surprise myself. Sometimes not trying is almost as good a strategy as trying!

edit: and I haven't even entered the autox comp yet- but with this new training philosophy of mine I'm sure I can still make the top ten!

Quote from Leprekaun :

Look at the end of the day, I want to mention 2 things, first of all, I don't appreciate others saying that I'm a shit driver because I know I'm very good (modesty mode: off) and secondly, so our opinions differ but I know that for a FACT that no driver just jumps in a game for their first time and can be amazingly fast.

I've seen a few do that. There are drivers in LFS who've only been here a few months and are already quicker than me anyway - for example, the current AS1/MRT WR holder.

Quote from Leprekaun :

Btw, Ray, didn't we used to exchange last place back in ERRC days?

Having watched and written race reports for all of those races I can tell you: No. Ray joined the series late and challenged for the win in every race he entered.

Incidentally; I think you're a quick driver, I just don't understand why you have to tell everybody about it.

Quote from Leprekaun :

Btw, Ray, didn't we used to exchange last place back in ERRC days?

ERRC was the ESL UK series right?

I can't even remember racing you back then, but FYI, in my first race, I got 2nd in the sprint and won the feature event, although the feature events all had mandatory pit stops, so maybe we raced after my pitstop.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

I often think "I can't do that" about my own racing, and then every now and then I'll completely surprise myself. Sometimes not trying is almost as good a strategy as trying!

Lol, true that has happened to me also, but I was generalising.


Oh and BTW if some people give up trying to do something, it won't always be because they don't think they can do it, it can be because they have had enough of trying.

zeugnimod: Why think like that? You are human, whoever is also human, so why go around thinking you will NEVER beat them?

P.S. If talent does exist, I think it just means some people with less "talent" (possibly me? I don't know) need to try harder. But this is all a theory.

O/T: What's the ERRC, the ESL UK league that took place last year? Or was that RSSC...

Quote from DaveWS :

zeugnimod: Why think like that? You are human, whoever is also human, so why go around thinking you will NEVER beat them?

Ok, "never" was exaggerated. I will beat them if they make a mistake. If thats what you meant with "being human". But in a normal race, I wont. And Im happy with that. I cant give you reasons.

Set matters for sure, it's not a question... Of course if you have no talent at all then you won't be fast even with the best possible set. I am not patient enough to create and test sets so I usually ask fast guys to share their sets and there were occasions when I became 0,2-3 faster with a new set. For example I had dozens of 1,39 laps at AS Nat/FZR but couldn't go below 1,39,8 then tried Biernot's set and almost immediately improved my time to 1,39,59.

All in all, ReppohC feel free to post your set