Quote from joshdifabio :

O/T: What's the ERRC, the ESL UK league that took place last year? Or was that RSSC...

That's the one. FTR these were Bawbag's results:

Westhill, Q: 3rd, Race 1: 2nd, Race 2: Win.
Blackwood Rev.: Q: 2nd, Race 1: 3rd, Race 2: 3rd.
FE Green: Q: 4th, Race 1: DNF (hilarious chicane accident), Race 2: 4th.
KY Nat: Q: 2nd, Race 1: 1st, Race 2: 5th.
SO Town: Missed this event.
AS GP: Q: Last (disconnected several times, never managed a fast lap), Race 1: DNF (dropped connection), Race 2: 9th.

Having discussed with my brother about this whole subject about natural talent or not, he has told me about a few things which yes, can lead to making a driver better than another because of certain childhood experiences. Whilst I see that point clearly, this does not change my opinion on this so called "talented" drivers. The word talent for me is something to explain that someone is very good at what they do BASED upon the amount of practice, dedication, determination and experience.

I mean, for example, comparing myself and Ray. I know that Ray is better than me, I know that for a fact! but the difference in our opinions comes from why he is. If you compare our LFSW stats (which btw, doesn't include offline driving as well ), Ray has done over 180k km while I myself, only have 90k so throwing in some more mileage from offline driving, I'd say I've done about 100-120k altogether and Ray around 200-220k so my point is that he has done double the mileage I have done so, how can you compare me to Ray when he's played LFS double the amount of time that I have? perhaps if we make Ray go cold turkey for a few months whilst I go at it like mad for 3 months, I can achieve his mileage then it would be in a way, possible to compare altho there is another issue here and thats playing too much which would be an issue for me. As you know, back in 1990-1991 testing I believe, where Berger did all the testing for the team while Senna was enjoying the sun in Brazil but when Senna returned to testing, he went faster than Berger even tho Berger had been testing for months so it would be the same between myself and Ray if were to set it up like that.

Quote from csimpok :

All in all, ReppohC feel free to post your set

Done and done. Please don't beat me by much guys

Quote from Leprekaun :

Having discussed with my brother about this whole subject about natural talent or not, he has told me about a few things which yes, can lead to making a driver better than another because of certain childhood experiences. Whilst I see that point clearly, this does not change my opinion on this so called "talented" drivers. The word talent for me is something to explain that someone is very good at what they do BASED upon the amount of practice, dedication, determination and experience.

I mean, for example, comparing myself and Ray. I know that Ray is better than me, I know that for a fact! but the difference in our opinions comes from why he is. If you compare our LFSW stats (which btw, doesn't include offline driving as well ), Ray has done over 180k km while I myself, only have 90k so throwing in some more mileage from offline driving, I'd say I've done about 100-120k altogether and Ray around 200-220k so my point is that he has done double the mileage I have done so, how can you compare me to Ray when he's played LFS double the amount of time that I have? perhaps if we make Ray go cold turkey for a few months whilst I go at it like mad for 3 months, I can achieve his mileage then it would be in a way, possible to compare altho there is another issue here and thats playing too much which would be an issue for me. As you know, back in 1990-1991 testing I believe, where Berger did all the testing for the team while Senna was enjoying the sun in Brazil but when Senna returned to testing, he went faster than Berger even tho Berger had been testing for months so it would be the same between myself and Ray if were to set it up like that.

Lol, do you really think that it matters if you have done 220 or 120k? If you are not among the fastest racers after 100k then you wont be even with 500k.

Quote from Leprekaun :

perhaps if we make Ray go cold turkey for a few months whilst I go at it like mad for 3 months, I can achieve his mileage then it would be in a way, possible to compare altho there is another issue here and thats playing too much which would be an issue for me. As you know, back in 1990-1991 testing I believe, where Berger did all the testing for the team while Senna was enjoying the sun in Brazil but when Senna returned to testing, he went faster than Berger even tho Berger had been testing for months so it would be the same between myself and Ray if were to set it up like that.

Also, I'm not sure that he'd be happy to stop playing for 3 months just to settle an argument .

Quote from ReppohC :

Done and done. Please don't beat me by much guys

Thanks Even though I havent tried your set yet I think that your time is bloody good so you won't be beaten by seconds...

Lep, go race Modoff, he has less mileage than you, yet he will still beat you.

When I first joined LFS, people like Casper88, Modoff, Sracer, W Gooden and drivers like this....O well ovcourse Rudi also, were all the gods, the people to beat etc etc. If you look at all of them and there online statistics, they still have less than you probarly. A great example is Sracer, me and Petri raced so close in the ESCC 2 series, Sracer has way less onlne mileage than me, but I bet you my penis (HONESTLY) That he doesn't put me beating him overall (Just) to me having way more online miles than him.

Another one is Chriskart, he has roughly the same mileage as you and IMO is one of the fastest drivers around ATM.

Btw Kev, that Fern Bay Green event was unfair! I was participating from a friends house, with offputting friends.

Race 1 - hit the chicane and ended on roof
Race 2 - Hit the chicane and landed on wheels, shame it happend after my pitstop.

EDIT : Josh, I don't play that much nowadays anyway, i'm only competing in one league and that is the OLFS which doesn't have much left anyway, so if Lep wants me to proove that even with the same mileage it will never happen then he better get driving.

Quote from DaveWS :

But the golfers you talk about will never get better because they think they won't / can't get any better. Put it this way, I've never thought to myself, "I can't do that" unless it was physically impossible for me to do so.

In German there is a saying that says "The others are also only using water to do their cooking". I think this is a healthy attitude to not get intimidated and keep improving.

But realistically I think some people just show that they have a talent (I call it genetical, not god-given) that is clearly hard to match by most people, no matter what their attitude is.

There's no doubt that after 100K you'll be fast, but you'll never be able to push a car like others who are faster still. Some people have the ability and some do not, I think I fall into the category of not having it but I can deal with that - just got to clock up miles and hope 'experience' carries my slow ass along.

A good indication of those 'experience' drivers are the guys who always select the same car to keep up, yeah you know what I'm talking about!

Or anyone who dislikes RWD :lovies3d:

what a sad thread. knowing your limits is a strength of it's own.

Jack, Sorry but your theory doesn't really prove anything other than these guys hotlap offline more then most people. Look at Sracer and his stats the guy has probably driven in total including hotlaps *guess* 35K, I'm sure I could find a handful of other hotlappers with plenty more on/offline miles that will never be as fast as him.

As for the high profile league races well the guy had to be fast to get in there to begin with, so he had even less miles at the time.



evilgeek : Lovin the out of a cereal box cliché quote, but go away.

Quote from Rooble :

Jack, Sorry but your theory doesn't really prove anything other than these guys hotlap offline more then most people. Look at Sracer and his stats the guy has probably driven in total including hotlaps *guess* 35K, I'm sure I could find a handful of other hotlappers with plenty more on/offline miles that will never be as fast as him.

As for the high profile league races well the guy had to be fast to get in there to begin with, so he had even less miles at the time.



evilgeek : Lovin the out of a cereal box cliché quote, but go away.

i can't beat bawbag so i'm not allowed to have an opinion?

well, i did beat him once... when he crashed. so there!

Quote from Clownpaint :

That was my point, wasn't it?

Yeah but it come across as it being the deciding factor, which it probably isn't give that there a plenty of people with 40K+ online with a shed load of hotlaps offline to go with it.




evilgeek : Feel free to state your opinion but if its useless and insulting then why bother posting it to begin with?

Quote from Clownpaint :

This would also explain why Modoff would beat Leprekaun, since I remember Modoff being a multiple WR holder a few patches back.

Because he had wr's he should be able to beat Lep?

The reason Modoff would beat Leprekaun is because he is capable of doing WR times, not because he has done so in the past.

Quote from Rooble :

evilgeek : Feel free to state your opinion but if its useless and insulting then why bother posting it to begin with?

well if i thought it was useless i wouldn't have posted it, and whether people find it insulting or not is really up to them. my intention was not to insult anyone, but rather to simplify the argument. in case it isn't clear, i'm agreeing with the majority in saying that talent does matter. anyone who says it doesn't is fooling themselves, and that might be hard for some people to swallow, but such is life.

Ahhh, I'm just glad that I raced Bawbag when he first started playing LFS...that way I think I can say fairly safely that I beat him a couple of times before he started handing my ass to me regularly!

These days I don't stand a chance for numerous reasons I won't bore you with. However, if I were at my peak I can safely say that I could only race door to door with the fastest racers for maybe a lap or two, and at that rate it is probably just because of my blocking manoeuvre's! Once they pass me they would more than likely drive off into the distance.

From my experiences, Talent is what pushes you that little bit further, experience is what your average lap time is.

For example i have some thousand and a bit laps on FZR@AS3. without the weight i could pump out 41's all day long, when i concentrate enough i'll hit 40's, The 41's came from the 1500 laps or whatever i've clocked up on the combo along with my setup, the 40's come from the added talent i have as a driver.

Hey, if it makes you feel better when you lose, then go ahead assuming everybody in front of you is only there because they're playing the game more than you are. If you can't accept that people are all different, and what comes easily to someone can be hard for someone else, then you're living in a different world to most of us.

Quote from Bawbag :

Because he had wr's he should be able to beat Lep?

The reason Modoff would beat Leprekaun is because he is capable of doing WR times, not because he has done so in the past.

I'm a shite driver, is that what you want me to admit? a lot of people here seem to think so. So there you have it, I actually stated that you're better than me but all you do is say how shite I am. Really appreciate this "Lep is shite" stuff guys, keep it up plz.

/me nails his colours FIRMLY to the masthead.

Guys, you probably don't know this, but I unofficially (sp?) work as a psychologist/psychiatrist/cousellor. (I offically work with birds of prey). And it angers me to see you trying to manipulate Lep. Do you really have anything better to do with your time than to sit on forums and troll? Why aren't you out there racing? Everyone's been moaning about the lack of racing, but who acutally gets off their arse and races, instead of joining in the 'me too' philosophy. Think about it. You're all obviously not keen on Lep, yes? So why not get out on track and settle it, instead of hiding behind a forum? Or are you scared of being beaten? Is that why several servers are empty? And the ones who aren't are full of people who are afraid of change. Take Redline for example.

I don't give a shit if you all hate me. I do my talking out on the track. Why don't you people as well? Come on, or are you all chicken?

As for the elitism, that is (as far as my reading goes) a sign of insecurity. But what are you insecure of?

EDIT: Lay off the flaming. I had a demo racer who is a friend of mine ask me via MSN 'is S2 really full of wankers who argue all the time'?

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

/me nails his colours FIRMLY to the masthead.

Guys, you probably don't know this, but I unofficially (sp?) work as a psychologist/psychiatrist/cousellor. (I offically work with birds of prey). And it angers me to see you trying to manipulate Lep. Do you really have anything better to do with your time than to sit on forums and troll? Why aren't you out there racing? Everyone's been moaning about the lack of racing, but who acutally gets off their arse and races, instead of joining in the 'me too' philosophy. Think about it. You're all obviously not keen on Lep, yes? So why not get out on track and settle it, instead of hiding behind a forum? Or are you scared of being beaten? Is that why several servers are empty? And the ones who aren't are full of people who are afraid of change. Take Redline for example.

I don't give a shit if you all hate me. I do my talking out on the track. Why don't you people as well? Come on, or are you all chicken?

As for the elitism, that is (as far as my reading goes) a sign of insecurity. But what are you insecure of?

EDIT: Lay off the flaming. I had a demo racer who is a friend of mine ask me via MSN 'is S2 really full of wankers who argue all the time'?

Firstly, I don't care if you're a psychologist/counsellor or whatever, especially an "unofficial" one. Even if I find that very hard to believe given some of your earlier posts in this forum.

Secondly, why post with an attitude like that. Suddenly the whole thing is about you is it? Why would anybody hate you? why be the first resort to swearing?

Why make this far more hostile than it ever was. Posts like that are what get threads closed, but then maybe that's your intention.

Nobody has been anywhere near as hostile as your post is. People have actually just been defending themselves - why should they have to? It has been implied and suggested that Bawbag (and all fast LFS'ers) are not talented, only some no-lifer sat in front of his wheel all day and night. Why is it wrong to respond to that by saying the person that posted it is wrong? Nothing personal here till your post. You make a post on the forum, you have to be prepared to read responses.

Quote from Leprekaun :

I'm a shite driver, is that what you want me to admit? a lot of people here seem to think so. So there you have it, I actually stated that you're better than me but all you do is say how shite I am. Really appreciate this "Lep is shite" stuff guys, keep it up plz.

Jeese, you start all the bitching about how your slower BECAUSE of the setup, now you complain when people tell you otherwise and PROOVE it? Seriously, you brought it all on yourself.

Btw, I don't think your a shite driver and never once said it, but I also don't think that your slower than the WR pace because of the setup.

You spoke about Darkone tweaking his setup a bit and how you could gain 6 tenths by using his setup, that is what's "shite".

nothing personal!? are you f*cking serious!? :mad:. Whats all that "Lep is shit" "You're talentless". It wasn't said but so bloody clearly implied. Know what? you guys believe what you want to believe to make yourselves feel like a higher being but good luck to you the day you get beaten, that day will be a crushing day of confidence. Why build so much confidence that you have something "special" over others to know that you'll get beaten? All drivers know and those who don't believe it are idiots that there will always be someone who comes along to beat them (Schumacher -> Alonso & Raikonnen).

Maybe its a strategy to bring others down, if so, fair play, I'd say it would work on the weak minded. I know my stuff, I know my driving and I know I can be the best of my time, never actually be eternally the best because thats never happened and no chance in hell it'll happen in the future either but if you think I have fake beliefs, then you're entitled to your opinion as well as I'm entitled to mine but don't try and push your opinion over mine by trying to patronise me with saying "If it makes you feel better that you know those in front of you are better because they've played LFS more than I have" because one of the things that really gets on my nerves are those who patronise me.

@sinbad. Firstly. My post is no more hostile than some posts on this forum.

Secondly, 'why resort to swearing, you were the first'. No, I wasn't. If you read a few posts earlier, there's the first swear word.

Thirdly. Believe what you want. I do my talking on the track. Not sitting behind a screen posting on a forum.

Fourth: I am hostile? Maybe that's because I am angry with you people for picking on a good friend of mine.

I have an attitude? Not as much as some members of the forum (i.e. petercollins)

Mods, lock this thread ASAP

DK

Lep, you imply that everybody who is fast in LFS is only fast because they have xxx amount of distance in the game, yet you don't see me crying about it? I also didn't take it personally like you clearly have.

Btw, if you are allowed to say that you are slower because you have less miles than me, then i'm allowed to say otherwise, whether you take that as me calling you shite or not, isn't my problem.