Yeah, the current namie099 demo is... ages old. It is indeed interesting, but as you say, the demo is no competition for LFS.

nkPRO on the other hand, which ought to come out pretty soon, looks like it has the potential to be the only real competitor to LFS these days. The graphics sure DO look good, probably due using DX9 effects, but it will have to be tested in motion. Same goes for the physics, obviously.

The only thing letting me a bit down is that the demo will be offline and one car only, without any lap time recordings IIRC. I mean, it's better than the rFactor demo (:rolleyes:) but I don't know if a part of LFS popularity wasn't caused by the very open demo, so this may be a bit of a hinderance too. And the liscensing seems to be way stricter than the LFS one...

Yeah, I played Netkar a lot about 2 years ago - the F3000 car round the GPL port of Nurburgring was quite fun once you got used to the weird physics.

But judging from what I've read about NkPro (Autosimsport regularly have interviews these days too), it seems totally different. I WILL try the demo. I'll PROBABLY buy it (like I bought rF and GTR, grrrrr). But it's gonna have to be pretty damn good to tempt me from LFS for long. But competition is a good thing (as long as the NKPro fanboys don't come and scream their opinions here), and will drive LFS and NKPro onto bigger and better things - this is a GOOD thing.

the question i find myself asking is would i like rfactor if LFS didn't exist?

It would probably be one of the most realistic sims out there...

Geeeez, I'm glad we have LFS! It has opened my eyes regarding true quality software/development/community. But... well RBR would still beat rFactor *g*. But if LFS didn't exist, I'd probably not know about RBR and rFactor anyways.

Quote from Dan Hot :

the question i find myself asking is would i like rfactor if LFS didn't exist?

If LFS didn't exist, I would have played MCO to the end, never having bought a wheel (LFS made me buy one) and probably gone back to playing CS all the time, all the while thinking the GT series was as realistic as racing games got. :yikes:

That said I do still play CS a fair bit.

without lfs i would still be playing n2003 actively (i just rarely do nowadays) and rfactor wouldnt exist coz it would have no rolemodel to copy upon and produce some substandard copy.
without lfs , i doubt nk wouldnt turn "pro" either.
you see, followers need leaders to exist.

GTL can be a fresh experience if you haven't been playing games base on ISI engines.

I can't say the ISI engine is a load of crap, since I officially started sim racing with F2002's M3 mod, but there is really a strong sense of deja vu everytime I try a F12002/F1C mod and GTR, GTL feels kind of the same as well. These are definitely not bad games to play with, however it's along getting a bit old, that their potential is nearly being exhausted. And just as every game engine there are odd bugs which can't seems to be elimiated, for example the A.I.

Of course, from pure gaming point of view that doesn't matter as long as you think it feels right, which is a purely subjective matter. However among all the mods I'd tried base on the ISI engine, only the M3 mod provides the right feeling of driving a car - and I had that impression WAY BEFORE LFS emerges in my life, so that's not a LFS biased opinion. And sadly that feeling is never reproduced in any other mods and latest Simbin creations.

I can't put that into a scienctific perspective, but it's true that such feeling exists in only a handful of games, which IMO is best recreated in LFS. So if you have not been playing games on ISI engine, then give it a try, it is one of the best executed game in that genre and the variety of cars make it much more interesting then GTR, but I doubt that will provide a really long term entertainment because when you get to the bottom of it, it'll starting feeling a bit empty and mechanical. There won't be mods developed for it as well, so what you are paying now is what you will get in the end. As that is the case, I would suggest you give some patience and wait for the rFactor and it's mods or wait for netkar.

I am the archetypal sucker. I got GTR after being seduced by the demo. Couldn't wait for it in English so I went the 'translation' route. GTR has now been consigned to the bin! Lousy online accessability. Next came rFactor. Ever the optimist, I bought that to. Wrong! Same online crap.
Whaddya know I was suckered into GTL as well! Straight jacket someone, please! Same online nonsense. I run/ran a dedi GTL server and there's a 'startline' bug whereby some players are trapped in a never-never land and don't get to start. That leads to consternation all round and a general exodus.
Which is a bloody shame because the models, sounds, graphics and 'feel' (once you've got used to it) are good. They shoot themselves in the foot every time.

As for Starforce............If you're on teamspeak and start GTL, Starforce screeches in you ear and knocks out TS. You have to start GTL first. Copy protection is all very well but using a nuke to beat a gang of skinheads is overkill. There are LOADS of ways to prevent piracy but sheesh! Sledgehammer/nuts comes to mind

Sorry GTL you blew it!

All of the above waffle serves only to highlight what a bloody fine game LFS is. If there were the cars, tracks and sounds of GTL and the coding and online accessibility of LFS...........The mind boggles.

I dunno about 'feel' or what not, all I do know is I love driving the cars in the GTL demo. I get a lot of satisfaction from it and I can't wait to jump online and have a go with some friends. Going by some of the responses here maybe I am a bit shallow?

That being said, I still ALSO love LFS! To me they both achieve similar results and just simply go about it in different ways. I feel pretty lucky to have 2 great sims I can enjoy

Every time I try the latest ISI/Simbin demo it looks/sounds/drives/feels just like an F1 Challenge mod. I already paid for F1C once, not going to pay again.

Yep the 427 big block sounds just like an F1 car :rolleyes:

Oh, you totally got his point :rolleyes:

My point is that if I want an F1C mod, there's plenty available for free download, no need to send more money to Simbin/ISI. If they build something original that I like better, I might buy it though. I'm hoping for a mod for rFactor that's so good that I can't resist.

F1C and M3 mod brings tons of great memories. Sadly, most over F1C mods fail to provide a simulator driving feeling.