@kev: I would be...
DK
DK
Well, talent is based purely on natural ability (or as some like to call it "God-given gift"). Whether its how someone thinks, how someone reacts, it can a number of different talents. Personally, I feel that perhaps the difference or thing that I consider extremely important when it comes to driving a car fast, any car at that is knowing how to maximise it and before you can do that, paying soo much detail to how the car responds to your inputs (example: applying throttle in the XRT so that when you hit the throttle when you're around 35%-40% round the corner, upon completing the corner, you get max turbo boost and causing a bit of throttle steer or sometimes, very small skid to get the car to turn in just a bit more). I'm not saying thats anything special, I'm just saying thats how hard I think and try to understand the car by maximising the amount of power I can get out of it in a corner.
Thankfully, yes, I may have some talent but I also remember as well that back in the very early days of LFS, I wasn't very quick. I was generally struggling to get within 2 seconds of a WR on a combo which I would've driven almost 50 laps while now, I can get within 1-1.5 seconds of a WR in a matter of just 5-8 laps so I believe that my experience is what lead me to this level. Perhaps as well its because of my understanding of how to maximise the various different cars but I believe that people like Bawbag in their first LFS days were no different to how I was, perhaps better, same or worse, I couldn't tell because Bawbag was involved in LFS well before I was but my point is that he wouldn't have been anything special in those days. Unless someone can drive for only, say, 10k kms (including offline
) and then goes off to set numerous WRs, then I will realise that there are some who have an unexplainable ability to drive a car really fast in a very short amount of time. Even if you can tell me that there is infact a driver who is like that, you or I cannot judge how many kms they've driven as there is no offline mileage counter to account for. Bawbag is skilled, hannu is skilled, biggi is skilled <- No doubt about that! 
but something we, ourselves, unless we run some sort of lab rat testing 
, we can never know how many kms in total a driver has driven, I mean, even I don't know how many I've driven in total either! .
At the end of the day, I drive and try to improve to be the best, I'm not the best now and I may not be later either but I keep on driving anyway for the possibility that I can be (by the way, all this is largely if not completely to do with real life reference, while LFS has somewhat significance, I'm nowhere near as serious about sim racing as I would be about the real thing).
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be watching a fantastic show called "Trap Door" http://youtube.com/watch?v=q9H ... amp;mode=user&search=
Thankfully, yes, I may have some talent but I also remember as well that back in the very early days of LFS, I wasn't very quick. I was generally struggling to get within 2 seconds of a WR on a combo which I would've driven almost 50 laps while now, I can get within 1-1.5 seconds of a WR in a matter of just 5-8 laps so I believe that my experience is what lead me to this level. Perhaps as well its because of my understanding of how to maximise the various different cars but I believe that people like Bawbag in their first LFS days were no different to how I was, perhaps better, same or worse, I couldn't tell because Bawbag was involved in LFS well before I was but my point is that he wouldn't have been anything special in those days. Unless someone can drive for only, say, 10k kms (including offline
) and then goes off to set numerous WRs, then I will realise that there are some who have an unexplainable ability to drive a car really fast in a very short amount of time. Even if you can tell me that there is infact a driver who is like that, you or I cannot judge how many kms they've driven as there is no offline mileage counter to account for. Bawbag is skilled, hannu is skilled, biggi is skilled <- No doubt about that! but something we, ourselves, unless we run some sort of lab rat testing , we can never know how many kms in total a driver has driven, I mean, even I don't know how many I've driven in total either! .At the end of the day, I drive and try to improve to be the best, I'm not the best now and I may not be later either but I keep on driving anyway for the possibility that I can be (by the way, all this is largely if not completely to do with real life reference, while LFS has somewhat significance, I'm nowhere near as serious about sim racing as I would be about the real thing).
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be watching a fantastic show called "Trap Door" http://youtube.com/watch?v=q9H ... amp;mode=user&search=
Agree with them quotes know one is born with a talent it doesn't come natural ok there are the odd few people who adopt to other sports or areas of the sport quicker than others but at the end of the day if you work hard you will be on top...
So what point are you trying to make? You're not quick, I'm not quick either, are you proposing some sort of Battle of the Retards?
Looking at LFSW I'd spank you, which would be a bit embarrassing for you given my reputation for being rubbish. If you beat me I could just shrug it off and put it down to my self-confessed rubbishness. Either way you're not really achieving anything are you?
Maybe we should just drop this silly e-schlong competition altogether?
But natural talent can help you get there quicker.
Was he? You've got the earlier join date, which marks either the first time you visited the forums or the month you got your license.
Maybe not, but he joined in October 2005 and by January 2006 he was racing in the ERRC and competing against the likes of Sinbad, SparkyDave, Clownpaint, No_One, Nikimere, etc., so he apparently learned enough to be as quick as some of the quickest Brits (and an Irishman - sorry Niki!) in three months.
That's what its all about. Even the guys who don't get much wheel time still try their best when they do get online, it doesn't matter if they get beaten - it's about enjoying the racing against whoever you're racing against.
Anyway, good luck. Maybe you're just a slow starter and you'll catch the fast guys one day. We'll see.
Yep the natural talent being "learning quicker" I suppose,damn you Benji you cought me out
I just thought i'd post my completely unrequested opinion.
I've become fairly quick (nowhere NEAR Bawbag etc, but enough to hold my own), and i've put alot of miles in the FXO (over 4,000 laps iirc), for round one of the STCC the combo was SO2. I practiced my ass off (probably 500 hotlaps, and 500 online laps) and all i could get was a 56.07, i've come back and while i can set a low 56 much easier, i can't break the 55's, Modoff holds the WR with a 55.58, and i've done everything by watching, he just does everything i do, but slightly quicker and with a lot more control.
IMO experience lets you hit your best quicker, but those last 2 tenths are always the hardest, if you give me.... 1,500 laps on a combo and the same to Bawbag, we'll end up with fairly close laps, but i guarantee that 2 tenth of second advantage he'd probably have over me would be the hardest 2 tenths of my life and probably impossible for me to get.
Lep, to say that it's all about Setups or experience is BS and you know it. When Jordan did a test of Schumi the test driver thought that they'd shortened the track as he couldn't believe anyone could be that fast, and i'm sure that the test driver had a LOT more practice in an F1 car than him!
I've been trying for a WR recently, and while i've got the pace to break it (based upon the fact my split times in each sector have at best both been 2 tenths under the WR) it's just so difficult to link up the "perfect" lap without suffering from "Good-split-a-phobia", which is that i've just set a first split 2 tenths under the WR and want to "nurse it home". Of course, when your going against a WR you can't really "nurse it home" without loosing more than the 2 tenths and as such my fastest laps have been set with a crappy 1st split simply because i give it my all in the 2nd. Wait, this is massively offtopic... to the point. Just as i got close (like 0.07 from beating it close) some bloke comes along and smashes it down nearly .3 of a second, and i can't physically work out how he does it, he's just got the skill to jump on that throttle a little earlier and i don't
Think you have your dates mixed up Lep, 18th of April 2005 seems to be when you got S2. I got s2 on the 28th of october 2005, as for demo, only had that about 2 weeks.
So it seems that you were actually involved in LFS way before I was, 6 months earlier!
Jak, I can't say i've ever done more than 1500 laps on one combo except BL XFG, but that is over 2 years worth.
Doing it all in one bulk would be rather crazy, sad too. 
Btw, I don't mean to be big headed but there's just something I thought i'd share about the "experience" thing. I played Rfactor about a week ago with Gooden and Modoff, Gooden has played the game about a year or longer and has really become rather good at the game, well very good.
Anyway, there was some league race that you just show up and drive, now i've barely played Rfactor because pick up racing isn't anywhere near as good as LFS.
It was the new megane update around Trois Rivers (my French sucks, sorry!) I qualified 4th wtha time over 1 second off pole. However in the race I was much more comfortable and instantly was going at my quali pace then faster for most of the race. Gooden won it comfortably I had a couple of spins but my race pace was just a little bit slower in the end, last few laps was all within a few tenths of the best lap. I got 3rd in the race, now I don't have any experience in Rfactor nor with that track or car. Now that was down to what LFS has taught me, how to drive what to do in situations and keeping my cool etc etc.
So it seems that you were actually involved in LFS way before I was, 6 months earlier!
Jak, I can't say i've ever done more than 1500 laps on one combo except BL XFG, but that is over 2 years worth.
Doing it all in one bulk would be rather crazy, sad too. Btw, I don't mean to be big headed but there's just something I thought i'd share about the "experience" thing. I played Rfactor about a week ago with Gooden and Modoff, Gooden has played the game about a year or longer and has really become rather good at the game, well very good.
Anyway, there was some league race that you just show up and drive, now i've barely played Rfactor because pick up racing isn't anywhere near as good as LFS.It was the new megane update around Trois Rivers (my French sucks, sorry!) I qualified 4th wtha time over 1 second off pole. However in the race I was much more comfortable and instantly was going at my quali pace then faster for most of the race. Gooden won it comfortably I had a couple of spins but my race pace was just a little bit slower in the end, last few laps was all within a few tenths of the best lap. I got 3rd in the race, now I don't have any experience in Rfactor nor with that track or car. Now that was down to what LFS has taught me, how to drive what to do in situations and keeping my cool etc etc.
Couldn't be assed reading posts after two and a half pages, but Leprekaun, if you really think you have it.
Just pick a date and choose a combo. Then give me a date(say a month from now on?), and announce the combo a week before the date to allow me some practise. that should make make it equal experience vise.) And we´ll make a race or a some sort of hotlapping competetition.
And yea, thats a challenge.
And by no means I wanna be cocky here. I´m not even close to be the fastest drivers within lfs, just wanna make a point you obviously can't see.
Just pick a date and choose a combo. Then give me a date(say a month from now on?), and announce the combo a week before the date to allow me some practise. that should make make it equal experience vise.) And we´ll make a race or a some sort of hotlapping competetition.
And yea, thats a challenge.
And by no means I wanna be cocky here. I´m not even close to be the fastest drivers within lfs, just wanna make a point you obviously can't see.
...is it me or have there been a shedload of Mercury members in this thread suddenly?
is it me or has jak been on every thread here recently?
Is it me?
Blimey, it is!
Blimey, it is!
it ain't
It wasn't very sudden Jak....and only 4 of us have been posting, did I miss the team entry form for the forum? I still got another few locked and ready to roll and if you really wanna bring Mercury in here we'll get 1000+word post writer Paulie himself, oh yea, IM NOT JOKING! 
Quite true though, I don't see many threads without some Jak in them, Kev too but I usually laugh at his posts.
I still got another few locked and ready to roll and if you really wanna bring Mercury in here we'll get 1000+word post writer Paulie himself, oh yea, IM NOT JOKING! Quite true though, I don't see many threads without some Jak in them, Kev too but I usually laugh at his posts.
Well an Alien set does not make an Alien driver thats for damn sure,
Anyone thats says there no such thing as natural talent is kidding themselves,time and time again we see prodigies/genius in all walks of life.
Why is it ppl like Schumacher can make all there team mates look like chumps in the same machinery? ,or carry a car that doesnt deserve to win and make it win?
Mick Doohan was the same..
Anyone thats says there no such thing as natural talent is kidding themselves,time and time again we see prodigies/genius in all walks of life.
Why is it ppl like Schumacher can make all there team mates look like chumps in the same machinery? ,or carry a car that doesnt deserve to win and make it win?
Mick Doohan was the same..
Sorry what? You post twice 4 pages into a discussion and you say all of Mercury are posting suddenly? Yeh.... Right on buddy, right on.
As for tops times this week thats a tough one to answer, I haven't even given the combo a run yet so I can't even hazard a guess. Ill just say 1.01.7X
I really got to get some sleep now, k bye.
Just note that the replay was using Lep's set which has completely different driving characteristics
But the lines and/or speeds should be useful. As for all that other stuff? I've been racing LFS before it reached S1. Demo racer for a looooooooong time and I was pretty crap too. I used to get beaten by people driving kb
. S2 Demo led to lots of "proper" racers on demo servers which lured me into the real thing. Having played properly since S2 alpha it is only in the last year have I really come to grips with LFS. And yet despite all these years of "experience" I am by no means a Biggie or a Bawbag. They just have the talent and different "experience" to get the most out of the cars. But I am constantly improving and doing things I didn't think I could. Self belief goes a long way.I reckon a mid 1 is starting to look like it might be enough. Its certainly starting to get tricky to extract that little extra pace out of the car. I spent 4 hours last night and did ~10 x 1:02.0*'s, hitting cones on the final corner. I tend to suffer from the same "fast-split-phobia" problem. In the first autox week my pb splits where actually into the 8's, but I could only manage a 9:5. And even then I had trouble getting that!
Phew, I missed this thread, so I'll just make a few obseravations.
Lepr, not sure what the bug in your ass is, but you must realise that the setup ISN'T key to making you fast, the difference between a good setup and a VERY good setup is miniscule.
Also, practice is good, but it won't make you a superstar, practicing the same combo over and over again without analyzing WHY you are slower than driver A is pointless, the same as driving the same lines over and over again is pointless.
You have a strange attitude, not only to those faster than yourself, but those slower than yourself, I would almost say you have illusions of grandier, maybe even an overflated ego/opinion of yourself.
Secondly, natural talent is THE key point in racing, overcoming mental boundaries in real life racing is part of being "a natural".
I have been riding "big bikes" for just over a year, and on the track I can go WAY faster than riders that have been riding for years, this ISN'T due to setup (although it did make a difference, but not huge), practice, black magic or whatever, it's just because my natural talent for riding is more than others, I have been told, on a number of occasions, I am a "natural" when it comes to riding, maybe I just have less fear, lower mental boundries when it comes to riding fast or whatever, but it's still all talent.
Kev will vilify me for saying this, but I also truely believe that a positive mental approach works wonders, preparing yourself mentally for ANYTHING is as important as lots of practice.
Lepr, not sure what the bug in your ass is, but you must realise that the setup ISN'T key to making you fast, the difference between a good setup and a VERY good setup is miniscule.
Also, practice is good, but it won't make you a superstar, practicing the same combo over and over again without analyzing WHY you are slower than driver A is pointless, the same as driving the same lines over and over again is pointless.
You have a strange attitude, not only to those faster than yourself, but those slower than yourself, I would almost say you have illusions of grandier, maybe even an overflated ego/opinion of yourself.
Secondly, natural talent is THE key point in racing, overcoming mental boundaries in real life racing is part of being "a natural".
I have been riding "big bikes" for just over a year, and on the track I can go WAY faster than riders that have been riding for years, this ISN'T due to setup (although it did make a difference, but not huge), practice, black magic or whatever, it's just because my natural talent for riding is more than others, I have been told, on a number of occasions, I am a "natural" when it comes to riding, maybe I just have less fear, lower mental boundries when it comes to riding fast or whatever, but it's still all talent.
Kev will vilify me for saying this, but I also truely believe that a positive mental approach works wonders, preparing yourself mentally for ANYTHING is as important as lots of practice.
Totally agree. Chriskart is a great driver now!
I think someone needs talent. You know, everybody needs practise. The more practise the faster you get. But, there is one difference. The real talented guys have that bit of extra. What's Jakg talks a lot about, that half a second.
I can't say I have that extra talent I'm affraid. I've just got a lot of miles. Of course, I only drive the fastest cars in LFS, but still. In the beginning of S2, the Blackwood demo, I couldn't even get under 1:40 with the GTi.
By the way, you, Bawbag, Modoff and Leprekaun can prove yourselves in that FO8 league I'm starting.
http://fv8.cyxian.nl I'll start a topic about it soon.-> 2nd paragraph: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=491247#post491247
I'm getting a bit ticked off with people not paying attention to my posts. I've said this before in a recent post but still, same stuff is happening. I never, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER stated that setup is the "sole" reason for someone being faster than another. I stated that setup is important but at the end of the day, its the driver that maximises the car and the setup <- meaning that its more to do with the skill of the driver himself/herself, not the setup. People like Bawbag and Chriskart and Modoff, I'm sorry to say but IMHO, shows no proof to why they'd be very talented as I've said before, and before again! that we cannot account for offline mileage.
Hotlapping is part of having offline mileage so I apologise for not accounting the following hotlappers extra mileage as I have underestimated the amount of offline mileage they've done. So here are their hotlap charts:
Chriskart Hotlaps
Bawbag Hotlaps
Modoff Hotlaps
Leprekaun Hotlaps
So as you can see here, I have a mere 4 hotlaps compared to the other 3 drivers whom clearly have well over the 20 mark and I believe Bawbag has a monster rank (meaning having hotlapped with all cars on all track configurations) so they've clearly done waay more offline mileage than I have. It was my mistake to account for "online" mileage only, that was something bad on my part but when you try and put online mileage + offline mileage, I believe things change. Whether they've only done 1 run for their hotlaps which I doubt very much as they would have to have come across some HLVC problems with some of their runs forcing them to do it all over again but I won't put a number to how many runs on average that they did per hotlap because I don't know but without doubt, more than 1 run is definite. So then, Modoff and Chriskart, true, they have less "online" mileage than me but I would say altogether, have more. Also, note that I've never bothered with hotlapping, all this "being fast over 1 lap" business doesn't interest me. I race online, not hotlap online. The only time I drive offline is when I'm working on a setup and most of the time, a race setup at that so if I were to focus on doing the 1 lap wonders, I would probably be able to make myself a quicker driver and a much quicker one at that but I would also suffer from the case of not racing much, making me lose touch with my racecraft and consistency which has happened to me before briefly where I would stretch on in front of the other drivers, being alone so as if I would be practicing offline.
So my point is, we can't, simple cannot account for total mileage (online+offline) because there is no offline mileage counter. So way I look at it, my point has a lot stronger ground than yours Ray as you've done x2 the amount of online mileage, then including offline mileage, you could make it x3 or x4 in total of all that focusing on being quick over 1 lap. I know a few other racers who prove my point even further btw
.ALDI (licence username: Nobo)
SchneeFee
SparkyDave, the TBO specialst
But you're just making assumptions. They've done lots of wrs because they're capable of it. I could just as easily assume that you do as many or more offline miles than anybody else, but you don't post wr laps because you can't do them.
Lep, as much as this is a really good read. Why are you making such a big deal out of all this? You may have quality skills as a racer on some parts, but its not going to achieve anything in reality, particularly on a C.V when looking for jobs.
Take a chill pill and don't take everything to heart, its one of the reasons your reputation has gone down the drain very quickly the past week.
Take a chill pill and don't take everything to heart, its one of the reasons your reputation has gone down the drain very quickly the past week.
Ok, going by your argument, then me and Chriskart are talentless, but Modoff, if you look at the hotlaps he has uploaded and look at his online pb's for that combo you'll realise that he done his practice online, then done a few offline hotlaps. So I can 100% guarantee you that there is no way he has anywhere near as much mileage as you.
BTW, Lep, you seem to think that the more you drive then that's what explains for more of the speed, but what makes you think I havn't been as fast as I am for the past year since I had 60K miles?
Ok, so here's my argument Lep.
Those 3 drivers you just compared to yourself, would all wipe the floor with you in a race, over and over...and over. So what do you show? It's definetely not talent, after 60K miles, some self confessed greatness and all you have is a WR and a big mouth?
Seriously, think you need to take a look at yourself Lep, everything you've came up with here is utter BS, FM Failure has 4 times the mileage I have and do you think he is 4 times better?
BTW, Lep, you seem to think that the more you drive then that's what explains for more of the speed, but what makes you think I havn't been as fast as I am for the past year since I had 60K miles?
Ok, so here's my argument Lep.
Those 3 drivers you just compared to yourself, would all wipe the floor with you in a race, over and over...and over. So what do you show? It's definetely not talent, after 60K miles, some self confessed greatness and all you have is a WR and a big mouth?
Seriously, think you need to take a look at yourself Lep, everything you've came up with here is utter BS, FM Failure has 4 times the mileage I have and do you think he is 4 times better?
I'm a little late for this thread and I think it will dribble out soon, but I've read it all and feel like posting a couple of things.
1. Denying talent is imho denying evolution. And denying evolution is only for creationists.
2. Lep, if you're so concerned with your talent (even though you seem to think there is no such thing as talent in the sense of being gifted) because you want to become a racer in real life, you really shouldn't let it get to you that you might not be the fastest racer in LFS. It's not nearly the same as rL racing. Just because someone is fast in LFS certainly doesn't mean he's equally fast in real life. And somebody who's only fast in LFS can still be the fastest in real Life. Don't want to go into it, but real danger and how you cope with it, is just one important factor. So go out there and try to become a real racer if that's your dream. Seems you're young enough to still have a good chance.
3. And just to give this a totally different spin: Talent is nothing to be proud of. Being good at something because you've got talent is easy. Somebody who's good at something for which he has no talent at all deserves respect. The talented you can only envy.
4. 1:01.81
(I love this smiley. You can put it behind even the cheesiest post and make it totally acceptable. Is there any way to remove this smiley for public use and reserve it exclusively for me? Victor?)
1. Denying talent is imho denying evolution. And denying evolution is only for creationists.
2. Lep, if you're so concerned with your talent (even though you seem to think there is no such thing as talent in the sense of being gifted) because you want to become a racer in real life, you really shouldn't let it get to you that you might not be the fastest racer in LFS. It's not nearly the same as rL racing. Just because someone is fast in LFS certainly doesn't mean he's equally fast in real life. And somebody who's only fast in LFS can still be the fastest in real Life. Don't want to go into it, but real danger and how you cope with it, is just one important factor. So go out there and try to become a real racer if that's your dream. Seems you're young enough to still have a good chance.
3. And just to give this a totally different spin: Talent is nothing to be proud of. Being good at something because you've got talent is easy. Somebody who's good at something for which he has no talent at all deserves respect. The talented you can only envy.
4. 1:01.81
(I love this
smiley. You can put it behind even the cheesiest post and make it totally acceptable. Is there any way to remove this smiley for public use and reserve it exclusively for me? Victor?)
Predictions on top time this week?
(134 posts, started )
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