I am thinking now its a lot more difficult to get points under X.

Through the X-System, COMPUTEAM Race Authority seeks to promote the ethos of hard and competitive racing while perpetuating core racing ethics and standards. Licences are earned through both excellence and "cleanliness" in driving. Licences are not easily attained and are not a rite of passage,

Have read all this but dont see it. Have added a scorelist where i seem to feel that before i was entitled to points. I know i am not among the top timewise, but by staying out of trouble and being clean and consistent i am able to finish in top 10.

If you expect us to feel motivated and make progress it should be able to advance.

I am feeling that the points are not evenly distributed in the middle group and the threat of elitism arises?

I was able to progress to silver slowly but steadily before, but if the points are given out like this....

Would like to hear other users on their impression of the points-system and if they feel its different.

FTR, we're up for this discussion as long as it is understood that at the end of the discussion, the final decision on any changes to points awards will remain with us. We're not a democracy, but we *are* a community.

Quote from SamH :

FTR, we're up for this discussion as long as it is understood that at the end of the discussion, the final decision on any changes to points awards will remain with us. We're not a democracy, but we *are* a community.

In that case... I have to agree that the point payout on the single seaters is a bit harsh. I worked my way to Gold on the orginal CTRA servers while usually comming in somewhere in the top 10-15. Granted, it's not 'fast', but I take pride in how clean I can race in a pack and how well I can predict what people are going to do in order to keep from wrecking them. That said, I always thought of my Gold license as a status of quality, not quickness. In fact, being Silver/Gold allowed me to move away from some of the issues on the lesser license server, helping me to improve my times and become quicker just because I was racing with other people of the same mentality.

Now, in the single seater server, I feel I might just be stuck there for a LONG time, being forced to race with people who don't understand the conduct that is expected of them or people who just don't care about the rules and race how they want. This is somewhat discouraging for me, mainly because it takes away from the hopes of getting to 'the promised land' of cleaner and friendlier racing. I'm not sure how many races I did yesterday, probably over 20 race on the Single Seater server and I have only 2 points to show for it.

I believe that I'm not the only person in this catagory, as I moved to Silver/Gold license along with a several people I had raced with on the Copper and Bronze servers and they too are clean, considerate racers, although some may rarely break 10th place past the finish line. So, are we to be stuck on the Single Seater 1 server for only 2 points a day?

Anyway, that's my feedback. I also completely understand and respect that CTRA is not a democracy, but I'd like to pretend that I'm part of the community, so I can only hope that some of what I said does make an impact somehow. Thanks for listening

There's been a number of threads on this, and while I may be wrong, this is my take on it.

In RL racing you see people get points all the way down to 10th/15th/whatever-th place. These are annual competitions with a limited amount of races. At the end of the year it's a fresh slate.

CTRA isn't. It's ongoing. There's many, many races every day, far more than most RL race series have in a year. If the points won were the same amounts (i.e. 50 for a win, 30 for 2nd, etc) then you'd just get people with inflated scores, and you'd have to win far more to progress. 50pts for a win doesn't mean anything if the next tier is 5 million away.

Gaining a licence is supposed to be hard, and it's supposed to mean something when you get it. Racing in RL is hard. LFS is supposed to be a simulator. It's not Gran Turismo or anything else where you get 1000pts for a 1st place.

I do feel the points pain as I've only just scraped a Gold on the STCC/CTRAv1 servers. Can you imagine being an admin and not being able to race the top level cars? Thats where I am right now, and I've a long way to go before I can race the GTR class.

The best advice I can give to anyone is to forget about the points. If you drive smoothly and your times will come down. Improve your racecraft and the wins will come. Do these things first and then the points will come, and when they do you'll have the tools to take on the people in the higher tiers.

In RL racing you see people get points all the way down to 10th/15th/whatever-th place. These are annual competitions with a limited amount of races. At the end of the year it's a fresh slate. Why don't they do it in CTRAX

Quote from faster111 :

In RL racing you see people get points all the way down to 10th/15th/whatever-th place. These are annual competitions with a limited amount of races. At the end of the year it's a fresh slate. Why don't they do it in CTRAX

Did you even read his post?

It's not done as this isn't an annual event. Also, have you seen the furore when an incompatible patch is released and everyone's WR are wiped?

This is pickup racing. CTRA-X is harder than the previous incarnation. You guys sound like you're not up to a challenge...

Quote from ChiliFan :

Did you even read his post?

Yes i did.

Quote from Christofire :

In RL racing you see people get points all the way down to 10th/15th/whatever-th place. These are annual competitions with a limited amount of races. At the end of the year it's a fresh slate.

CTRA isn't. It's ongoing. There's many, many races every day, far more than most RL race series have in a year. If the points won were the same amounts (i.e. 50 for a win, 30 for 2nd, etc) then you'd just get people with inflated scores, and you'd have to win far more to progress. 50pts for a win doesn't mean anything if the next tier is 5 million away.

Yes, I think that's understood Christofire, but its not so much the number of points involved, it's more the fact that there are no points available a little bit further down the results list.

It's the difference between getting at least something, however small, for a clean 9th or 10th place finish, as opposed to nothing at all.

Quote from dungbeetle :

Yes, I think that's understood Christofire, but its not so much the number of points involved, it's more the fact that there are no points available a little bit further down the results list.

It's the difference between getting at least something, however small for a clean 9th or 10th place finish, as opposed to nothing at all.

Exactly what i mean. I dont expect to get a fast promotion to gold or to next ss license. I do expect some payoff for driving clean and getting in top 10s.

To me it seems that the benifit is on the hotlappers and not on the clean drivers.

IMO the point system at Single Seater server is almost perfect now. Points are given only to top drivers and only best formula drivers can gain license for FO8. This will imo prevent in near future noobs crashing on FO8 servers because of their unability to drive this powerful beast. I only suggest to give more points to drivers. I've been racing here yesterday intensively for few hours and my progress seems to be minimal.

Anyway, i haven't said it before: i like this new system very much and i really appreciate all work that have Becky and whole CTRA team done. Really thanks for that. Finally, after long time, i have some public servers, where i can have some good racing.

Quote from faster111 :

Yes i did.

Quote :

In RL racing you see people get points all the way down to 10th/15th/whatever-th place. These are annual competitions with a limited amount of races. At the end of the year it's a fresh slate.

CTRA isn't. It's ongoing. There's many, many races every day, far more than most RL race series have in a year. If the points won were the same amounts (i.e. 50 for a win, 30 for 2nd, etc) then you'd just get people with inflated scores, and you'd have to win far more to progress. 50pts for a win doesn't mean anything if the next tier is 5 million away.

There.

I see myself not using the S-S server as im a 6-10th place finisher (sometimes i get lucky and get higher),

The key i think for me is to only use that server when the fast guys are not in, If there are 5 fast racers in there im not scoring all night and id rather gain some more points on my other licences.
Im not a fast lap guy but i can be very consistant when i get down to it, so im always way off from the lap record but finish in a decent spot,

Once the other S-S servers open i may get some results then, i need at least a few points on my S-S licence :P

I suppose that the other thing to consider is that we now have much larger starting grids.

If you've got between 25 and 30 racers all vying desperately for say, a top 5 slot in order to obtain any points at all, I think it's fair to say that they're more likely to take risks to obtain those hard-to-get points.

If, on the other hand, a driver in 6th position knows he will at least get something for staying clean and tidy behind 5th on the last lap, they might pay more attention to good race craft.

Now, I know it's a question of where do you draw the line. Points for top 5, top 10, top 15 - where do you stop, but maybe it's worth considering awarding points a little further down the list, on occasions when there are such a large number of starters.

I think we need to remember that it's not a crime to be slow, provided you conduct yourself properly. Most fast drivers don't complain about slow drivers, they mainly complain about inexperienced ones.

Well, as I see it, there's a lot more 'clean' and 'slower' racers than there are the fast hotlappers that seem to be topping the charts right now. From the perspective of these clean and slower racers, all it appears to be right now is a server that caters to the best of the best. At this rate, I'm more inclined to sit back and not race on the server until the bulk of the 'fast' people get their licenses, then HOPE they move to the FO8. Remember, no one is forcing them to move on, for all they care they can sit and continue to race foxes allll day long and do it just for the win. Sure, they get less points, but that never stopped a lot of them from doing that on the preX system, just because there's more people racing on the lesser license servers. But hey, if you all want a repeat of that, well, have fun

And as for 'noobs' wrecking in the FO8 as one earlier poster mentioned, that's a pretty sour outlook on the whole situation. I know PLENTY of people that weren't 'fast' in the preX system, but they sure as hell raced clean. Are you meaning to tell me you'd rather race on an underpopulated server than have those people to race against? Seems rather lame, IMO.

Quote from Slopi :

And as for 'noobs' wrecking in the FO8 as one earlier poster mentioned, that's a pretty sour outlook on the whole situation. I know PLENTY of people that weren't 'fast' in the preX system, but they sure as hell raced clean. Are you meaning to tell me you'd rather race on an underpopulated server than have those people to race against? Seems rather lame, IMO.

Hmm, this is my mistake, i didn't mean it this bad, my post just suffers from my not-so-good english.
By saying "noob" i didn't mean (as you say) slow and clean racers, but all 1337 drivers, kings of the road etc., who can't drive with UF1 and very probably not with FO8. That's it.

Quote from dungbeetle :

I suppose that the other thing to consider is that we now have much larger starting grids.

If you've got between 25 and 30 racers all vying despirately for say, a top 5 slot in order to obtain any points at all, I think it's fair to say that they're more likely to take risks to obtain those hard-to-get points.

If, on the other hand, a driver in 6th position knows he will at least get something for staying clean and tidy behind 5th on the last lap, they might pay more attention to good race craft.

Now, I know it's a question of where do you draw the line. Points for top 5, top 10, top 15 - where do you stop, but maybe it's worth considering awarding points a little further down the list, on occasions when there are such a large number of starters.

I think we need to remember that it's not a crime to be slow, provided you conduct yourself properly. Most fast drivers don't complain about slow drivers, they mainly complain about inexperienced ones.

That's the point. Also happens to me: i'm non particularly fast, but i'm consistant, and so are many many other people.

Quote from dungbeetle :

Yes, I think that's understood Christofire, but its not so much the number of points involved, it's more the fact that there are no points available a little bit further down the results list.

It's the difference between getting at least something, however small, for a clean 9th or 10th place finish, as opposed to nothing at all.

+1.

I think the same.

I finished 3 16-lap races at AS Cadet between position 6 and 10 today and got 0 points. IMO, consistency should also be rewarded.

Oh man, just finished 4th out of 20 drivers in a 12 lap race on CTRA1 (started somewhere further down the back of the pack)... 0 points The guy who won - in an XFG by the way - had a Gold license and got 16 points! I'm only 3 positions behind him and am only Bronze license and get none?? Seriously, there really should at least be some reward for a performance like that. Getting to 4th position and holding it for the entire race requires skill and consistency, even if it's not a podium finish.

I think I'm gonna stay away from CTRA for a while. The new system simply isn't motivating. Maybe when the hype wears off and all the really fast drivers move on to other servers the not-so-fast-but-still-good guys will have a better shot at scoring some points

Well i am not staying away just for it, too many other great features.

The drivers on the higher servers complain that we're letting in slower drivers, the slower drivers even then complained they couldnt get in and now they perceive it as worse... ? What to do.......

OK well, I have looked at the results since the length increase and seen points going down as far as the midfield, and perhaps a little tighter on the single seater. The thing is - with the new system, you need both consistency AND pace. Anyone can drive at a steady pace, but being fast AND consistent - thats what everybody here aspires to be.

Some drivers who are consistent but lack pace are feeling unrewarded because they've put the effort in to avoid crashes etc. What I think they aren't appreciating is that they are probably on the right server for them, pace wise - it's no fun to go up to the second tier only to find you're still 2 -12 [yep, ive seen people complain of no points who where 12 seconds off the pace] seconds off the pace, only to find there is no-one else to race against.

When those persistent and tenacious enough to get fast make it, when as drivers we have that 'trigger click' moment and find a bucket load of missing time and suddenly everything falls into place, the last thing we need is for the server put aside for those of us who've made it to open up to the masses.

Having said that I am myself at most combo's with the midfielders, but I understand the frustrations that the fast drivers where having with the old system, this is why we made the distribution of points require all the boxes to be ticked rather than just one of them.

To me, when I see grumbles of no points and I look at the times and see a driver doing 1m14 seconds on a 1m08 lap I wonder - just why do they want to race on server 2 anyway?

I also know that many drivers complained that the licence system aged - by giving most points to those who are consistent AND fast the system will stay working for longer, we also needed to slow licence progress up a bit so that we had longer to field reports on drivers before moving them forward.

I do know that anyone who works at anything, who tries hard enough, has the capacity to succeed. We might none of us ever hold world records without sacrificing our day jobs - but it's within any serious competitor to score lots of points on CTRA servers, it just takes practice and patience - and when you are ready the system will reward you, and that reward will MEAN something.

Anyway, that's my feelings on the 'debate' as it where.

When all's said and done it's a racing sim - it should reward racing.

Looking at this thread I'm seeing a lot of people complaining about not get any gold coins for finishing races, but are you actually enjoying the races? If all you're doing is driving around in circles for fifteen minutes so you can open the chest and find out how many gold pieces Becky gave you then I think you've got your priorities screwed up a bit.

Anyway I just got 6th place, it gave me 14 gold and a blow-off valve of righteous justice (+2). BRB, I'm going to the market to trade it for NOS...

ROFL Kev, fancy camping GT2 for a bit? I have a cleric...

Quote from thisnameistaken :

If all you're doing is driving around in circles for fifteen minutes so you can open the chest and find out how many gold pieces Becky gave you then I think you've got your priorities screwed up a bit.

Funny you say that, because I know several people are only 'grinding' through the points just to get to the FO8. Would you also say they don't enjoy racing? Maybe they just enjoy it MORE in the FO8.

My intentions were made clear. It's not about the rewards, it's about moving away from the constant T1 wrecks, attitudes and nightmares that are associated with a server that is generally open to the public. Regardless of 'standards', these problems still exist. But hey, I'm up to a whopping 4 points now, so maybe I'll see the FO8 around next April?

P.S., If it wasn't fun, I would of given up at 2 points yesterday after 20 races, but no, somehow I managed to stomache another few races today to earn those other phatty 2 points

I think the current system is about right and as things shake out over the next few weeks I think the more consistent racers will start to get rewards as the faster drivers move up.