Hi, I've been racing S2 for about a month now, and I just bought the full version last week. I'm having a real problem with the XRT on Blackwood. It seems like no matter what I do, I just can't get the car to keep its rear end tucked in. I've read over the advance setup guide and used suspension analyzer (v2.2) to get two setups (soft one with 55/42 spring rates F/R, and a hard one 85/70 spring rates F/R), but I just can't get times under 1:30-1:31 for either. I watched a replay last night of a guy who ran a 1:26, and he could drive a lot more aggressively than I could without losing the rear.

I am going to ask a lot of questions now, so please bear with me.

1. What spring rates do you all run?

2. What suspension frequency you tune for?

3. What are your sway bar settings (can't figure out if I'm running too soft
or hard all around)?

4. What about clutch pack setings?

6.What tire pressures do you suggested?

7. Which is it better for adjusting camber: perfect contact patch or even tire temps (I downloaded one setup that could not get the middle and outside temps to come close to the center)?

8. Should I revert back to the XRG and XFG, or go drive the RB4 and FXO for a while?

9. Would running a few autoxes in LFS help me out in the road courses? Its suppost to in real life.

10. Does the suspension analyizer take in account fuel weight?

I hate to sound like a bottom feeder, but if anybody running around 1:26 (my near term goal) could you post your setups please. I don't want to steal them, just see what you are doing.

You can find a bunch of setups at http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu/

For your settings, try to figure around with the braking balance and the toe on the rear axis.

1. See 2. I think I use around 65 for the XRT.

2. Suspension frequencies to a certain extent are up to you. Softer springs/anti-roll bars makes the car easier to handle. I use around 2.3Hz for the heavier road cars.

3. The suspension analyser shows the spring/ARB roll resistance ratio, I don't go any higher than 1.0.

4. If you want to keep the rear tucked in, try less power locking. 20% should be enough.

5. There was no five. ???

6. Tyre pressures can have a bigger influence than spring settings, so since this car has pretty even weight distribution, try to keep them fairly even, with a slight bias to the front.

7. A compromise between the two is best for longer races, giving even tyre wear.

8. If you like, but generally driving a harder car will make the current one seem easier when you revert... getting used to an easier car will probably make things worse. Try taking the LX6 for a spin.

9. Yeah, probably.

10. Nope, but you can add in 50% of a tank into the cars weight on the data tab, works for me.

I can't remember what times I can drive with the XRT on Blackwood, but you might want to have a look at my ease race sets (if you haven't already) and see if they help, and perhaps then make them faster.

Mate, alot of fast times are also down to technique. If you are using mouse/kb control method don't expect to get near the top guys. Also you don't know if the top running guy is just running for hot laps or if he is just shit hot.

I'm a mouse user and have been driving for about . . . . 12 months I guess. I am still way of getting close to killer times, but It's something I have to except because of the advantage that wheels and pedals give you.

Don't try and drive fast, sometimes the old adage of slow in fast out really does count for a lot.

Practice lots and just work through a setup procedure. If you think your setup really should work or you have pawned it from a faster guy then you need to learn how to drive it. Find an empty server and test and test and test. Just like they do in RL.

Some of your questions are just way too technical for me. I don't think you actually have to worry to hard about the really heavy stuff unless you really are an anorak racer. It doesn't take that much to become competative. But things like tyre pressures and the like are all interchangable. If you run high downforce and high brake pressure then your tyres are gunna heat up all the more, therefore your pressure needs to reflect that. Unless you are really confident in what you are doing then keep everything symetrical. If the arse keeps flicking out on you adjust the toe in on the rear wheels. By turning the leading edge of teh rear wheels inbound your give the car more stability under power and when entering a corner the far tyre (from the apex) is trying to straighten the car bak out again. This might take an edge of the handling for the purists but gives you a much more stable platform.

You just gotta keep playing mate, but every now and then stop messing with the setup and just drive the car. You will find your times will drop just because you are driving and learning rather then fretting about your setup.

I'm no master. And I'm a mouser. But I'll help where I can, espeacially if you are a fellow mouser, then we can really get down and dirty with the nitty gritty.

Pass me the overhead manifold sprocket . . . .

sorry about 5, I lost count somewhere. I have a wheel and pedal set FYI. Thanks for the tips, I'll think I'll run a little softer and with less power lock in the diff.

OK just ran a few laps, I did a 1:26.54 with my set, I'm sure I would get a 1:25.xx if I put all my best corners together. Seems stable enough to me unless you trail brake.

Edit: Ah man still 4 secs from the WR. Really must drive this combo more.

Quote from Bob Smith :

8. If you like, but generally driving a harder car will make the current one seem easier when you revert... getting used to an easier car will probably make things worse. Try taking the LX6 for a spin.

This is really good advice IMHO. In the demo I couldn't drive the XRG or XRT at all. Then I spent a month first trying to drive the FO8 and then the LX6, one day I went back to the XRT at Blackwood and it seemed really easy.

I think those stupidly-overpowered cars teach you harsh lessons in how gentle you have to be on the loud pedal, so when moving down to a car with less power you feel like you're being really bold with it

I remember back driving in the demo both in S1 (I started LFS in February) and when S2 demo came out (I got my S1 license when S2 alpha was released and S2 the next paycheck). I started S1 demo in the XRGT. I stunk. I didn't know why, but I was having fun. S1 was really cool, but I don't think I would have purchased it or continued as I have now. I couldn't drive the Turbo car 5 feet without spinning or crashing. When S2 demo came out, someone helped me learn how to drive RWD. But it just never felt right with the FF. I gave up and started driving the XFGTi. Fell in love with this car. Still spun within 5 feet of trying to drive the GT Turbo. When Alpha was released, I was determined to drive the FZR and figure out the RWD. I figured it out (settings in the Momo drivers) and the FZR is my favorite and most used car. Recently I sent a guy to S2 demo from a flight simulator server I started flying on. So I jumped onto demo where I haven't driven since June. I jumped right into the GT Turbo and it seemed so easy to drive. I didn't change anything but got use to a much faster unforgiving car. So I guess my point is (I'm long winded here alot) I agree with the above where if you go learn a more difficult to drive car, and come back to the one you had trouble with before, you'll find it a piece of cake to drive.

FWIW, I don't worry much about times. I stink, I know it. I have around 850 laps in the FZR at Aston National and only broke into the 1:46's not long ago. I'd be a good match for you in the GT Turbo at Blackwood, as even though I have raced thousands there in the GTi in demo, I think my PB is only 1:30. Where the guy I recruited from the flight sim runs 1:26's after only a few weeks.

Well, after wasting most of my saturday, I fiddle around with several setups and was able to put a few laps into the mid-low 1:29's. I still have a problem with the rear steping out, I think one of my problems is staying on the throttle too much through the turn. thanks everyone for the help.

I've always thought most people run a setup with too much oversteer.
seriously, if you don't like the way the cars behaving, fix it! you can suspension analyse and suspension frequency all you like, but knowing what the cars doing wrong for you (stepping out under power it sounds like) and fixing it, will make the biggest difference. I've found cars in lfs often require very weird looking settings in order to drive like a 'real' car. Crank up that front anti roll, drop back the rear anti roll. Once the car feels stable enough, adjust your dampers / steering to compensate for any problems with slow turn in etc.

I agree with you on the oversteer I see others racing with. I hate alot of oversteer. You need just enough to get the car to rotate in the turn, not steer completely with the steering wheel straight. As Bob says here:

Quote :

4. If you want to keep the rear tucked in, try less power locking. 20% should be enough.

Usually the first thing I do to a set I get from someone or somewhere is turn the diff lock down. You can search the forum here and at RSC for discussions on this, there's a lot of info. I have read the setup guide, I have the analyser thingy, I follow one section of the setup guide and I printed it and taped to the monitor. It is this:

Anyways, scroll down the setup guide to the Quick Reference section. That displays a table listing over/understeer at turnin, apex, and exit and what to change to help it. That should help out tons. Oh, and I got that from the setup guide on the LFSWiki (http://www.lfswiki.net/). It combines a basic setup guide (can't remember who wrote it) and Bob's advanced setup guide.

don't use this f*cking clutch pack, and take a locked diff

Quote from Flotch :

don't use this f*cking clutch pack, and take a locked diff

With any luck the next set of physics updates will put an end to that.

amen :Handshake

Whats wrong with the Clutch pack? I've tryed driving a locked diff and can't suss it (Albeit I didn't spend very long trying to suss it). Is it something fundimental in the physics engine?

From what I can tell (I've not raced cars with these diffs IRL), it's a combination of two things
1. Clutch-pack still struggles to put down the power (can spin the wheels slightly even with 40% power locking), this could be down to a lack of pre-load adjustment.
2. The locked diff seems to handle too well, the advantage of putting power down and straight line stability should be offset by a horrible cornering ability.

Thats what I thought . . . . lol

Do you think that will be something fixed or at least improved in the up and coming physics update?

I never read anything from a dev on the clutch pack