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Adios, Speed.
2
(39 posts, started )
Right, he's not megastar material and he's old(er than a rookie should be), so WHY does everyone keep saying he "Deserves" a F1 seat?
He's been racing for a long time and seen lots of success. He has not just won the ccws, he has dominated. He can go faster than everyone while using less gas.

His age and experience might help a crappy team like STR.

Also, it's not like peugot stood a chance at le mans anyways, 1 turn isn't that big of a deal in 24h race.
Quote from srdsprinter :Frenchman defending a french driver. Nothing against that, but honestly:

Champcar is just weak. He's on the best team, which has a lot more to do with his sucess than his talent. He won't do anything noteworthy at a low-funded F1 team, so why not just enjoy being sucessful in a second-rate series?
...
Also, he's too old. He's already 28, not the age to be starting a F1 career. Teams want young talent.

Believe it or not but I don't care about nationalities. There are idiots everywhere and good people everywhere.
I may know a bit more about Bourdais and his results because I'm french but really this is not the point.
For instance, in the past years, I've always said that Hamilton should go to F1 as soon as possible. At the beginning of this season I even told my friends that Hamilton will be champion next year. I may be wrong, he may be champion this year

Mistakes ? Every driver I know did at least a mistake one day.
Check latest GP as an example, there are many many other ones... ;-)

Age ? I call that experience
Damon Hill won his first F1 championship at 36, Nigel Mansell at 39 and Juan Manuel Fangio won his first F1 championship at 40 and his last one at 46 (even though it was another era I'm not sure things were easier than today).

Quote from srdsprinter :so WHY does everyone keep saying he "Deserves" a F1 seat?

Because he does ?

And who else is worth going to F1 ?
Quote from sweetreid : 1 turn isn't that big of a deal in 24h race.

Arguably T1, lap 1, in 1st place at Le Mans is one of the most iconic turns in all of motorsports. Winning has little to do with it, but teams and manufacutres fight and even compromise race strategy to lead early at Le Mans.

Quote from Lotesdelere :Because he does ?

I'm glad your not blinded by national pride behind this guy. If I was in position to find a driver for my imaginary F1 team, I would try and chose someone who might be able to make my uncompetitive STR find some speed. Someone who would generate fans with carisma and personality. I'd find someone young who would have the potential to grow into a leader.

Its like when Jordan picked up Damon Hill. What a lame move, just to send Hill out of his career. He drove consistently, scored some points. He had some spark left at Arrows, with a miraculous 2nd place (at hungary?), but the highlights were few and far between.
I don´t know if this is true but atleast the Estonian F1 commentators said that he has a degree in engineering and is supposedly very very good at giving feedback to his mechanics. Like technical feedback, not just "the car is a bit wobbly".
Quote from DrDNA :Well, out of the 10 races so far this year he's finished 3...

So that's 2 DNF's in 10 races that you could blame on him, which is what you really meant to say, right?

...

When Brazil starts influencing F1 popularity in the US then I might starting rooting for Massa.

Yeah right...

I'm obviously not going to change your mind, no matter what I say, but nonetheless, I will proclaim that it takes two to tango, and if you are starting at the back of the grid you have to drive defensively. You can't just drive along obliviously and then thow up your hands saying "it wasn't my fault" when someone else hits you. You have to take steps to avoid being hit. So no, I wasn't trying to say that he DNF'd twice out of 10. He DNF'd 7 times out of 10 this year, and that's all there is to it. And last year was horrendous as well.

And as for Brazil, I take it you haven't been watching F1 very long? Why on earth you care about whether Brazil has any influence on American viewers, I don't know. American racing culture is very different than most other countries. Stock cars, sprint cars, drag racing, monster trucks, etc. It should be no surprise that with all the fans of those events in the US, there isn't much interest in rally, gt, or formula racing. But both Brazil and Canada are more influenced by the European styles of racing, and have been for decades.
Off topic: Is scott speed related to former nascar driver lake speed?
Quote from evilgeek :if you are starting at the back of the grid you have to drive defensively. You can't just drive along obliviously and then thow up your hands saying "it wasn't my fault" when someone else hits you. You have to take steps to avoid being hit. So no, I wasn't trying to say that he DNF'd twice out of 10. He DNF'd 7 times out of 10 this year, and that's all there is to it.

You're right, you aren't going to change my opinion with your brand of logic. You see, I like to analyze data to arrive at conclusions, rather than make broad generalizations, such as a DNF being a DNF being a DNF. Mark Webber had 11 DNF's in 2006 but I've yet to hear someone blame him for them.

Furthermore, how the reliability of a race car is indicative of a driver's talents is beyond me (other than rev-limit controls), especially since both STR cars have had reliability issues. Using your formula, Webber's horrible luck with reliability was indicative of his own shortcomings, right? He must be the McRae of the F1 world, driving too fast and sloppily until either luck hands him a good result or he crashes.

And that fact that you blame Speed for any contact he's ever had just shows you've long ago made up your mind about him and that's that. I think Al Gore calls that being a denier. Has Speed made some mistakes? Certainly, but not every mistake has been his.

Quote :And last year was horrendous as well

Four DNF's and an average finishing position of 13.5 including said DNF's, 12th place without. I'd hardly consider that horrendous for a driver's first season in F1 with an old car, especially considering the recent allegations about the lack of support from his bosses. In fact, from the first race Speed's been vocal about what he thinks he can achieve in TR's cars and points weren't mentioned.

Quote :And as for Brazil, I take it you haven't been watching F1 very long? Why on earth you care about whether Brazil has any influence on American viewers, I don't know.

No, I haven't been watching F1 for very long, just last year and this. I've watched it in bits of pieces since around 2000 and I've spent hundreds of hours reading about past races and racers, but I had trouble getting into it because I couldn't care less about the drivers . Villeneuve is French-Canadian, so I sure wasn't rooting for him .

I also don't care that you're a fan of Massa because that makes you a fan of Formula 1. Living upstairs from the US, you of all people should know the importance in Americans seeing themselves represented, especially in sport.

Quote :American racing culture is very different than most other countries. Stock cars, sprint cars, drag racing, monster trucks, etc. It should be no surprise that with all the fans of those events in the US, there isn't much interest in rally, gt, or formula racing.

Were you aware that drag and oval racing has been gaining popularity in Europe for years?

Also, every one of those foreign series' that you mentioned is American-free, both driver and track-wise, did you notice that? Meanwhile, circuit racing is alive and well in the US and increasing in popularity. The SCCA is continually gaining new members and they don't host a single drag or oval event, only circuit racing, autocross and rallying. It's taking awhile but US interest is catching up.

You're correct that America is still mostly interested in their own styles of racing, but that's still changing. Americans used to relate more to choppers than sport bikes, and their own brands of cars screaming around ovals. Now, however, you're seeing sport bike sales going up, Toyota involved in NASCAR and a Columbian driver, so things are definitely changing.

I mean, why do you think so many pundits have been saying that an American in F1 is so important for its popularity over here? America is still very isolationist when it comes to motorsports. We're seeing movement, but not enough momentum. A successful American in F1 is guaranteed to increase viewership. I've been praying for years that an American or Canadian get involved in the WRC.

Quote :But both Brazil and Canada are more influenced by the European styles of racing, and have been for decades.

Care to expand on this a bit (regarding Canada)? My interest in motorsports came about after I'd moved away as a child so here's an opportunity to educate myself .
Quote from duke_toaster :Interesting you mentioned F3000 and GP2, something IMO isn't working with them. The cars should be more closer to F1 - ideally a spec chassis based on an old F1 one and something like a Judd sportcar V10 so the engines can last a whole season without servicing.

What do you consider should be done to the current GP2 cars to make them more like F1 cars other than sticking lots of unattractive aerodynamic bits that ruin the racing?

Do you actually know anything about racing engines and genuinely believe that by the time it's setup in the back of a single seater running short races that a 3.5 litre Judd V10 will be any more reliable or cheaper than a Judd V8? What I find more staggering is where you get this notion that any racing engine, including production based engines, can possibly go a season without major work. A team with a big budget running single seaters will rebuild their engines every race and if their budget can't stretch to that they'll still be doing substantial 'servicing' and multiple rebuilds a season.

Quote :
Marco Andretti simply is not ready for F1. He needs to make the step up to GP2 and do a few years there, learning the circuits and driving dedicated road course cars on road courses.

Please list 10 fundamental differences in the skills required to be fast between an IRL car in road course spec and a GP2/F3000/F1 car. Otherwise please stop the senseless bashing.
Quote from DrDNA :Care to expand on this a bit (regarding Canada)? My interest in motorsports came about after I'd moved away as a child so here's an opportunity to educate myself .

for as long as i've been watching racing, brazilian drivers have been popular in canada, and vice versa. even in lfs, when i join a server hosted from south america i am often welcomed warmly with comments like, "canada has a great racing heritage".

american drivers have been popular in canada too, but only when they are good. in fact, any driver who is good will be well respected in canada, regardless of where they are from.

scott speed isn't good, and he doesn't have any class either.
Quote from evilgeek :for as long as i've been watching racing, brazilian drivers have been popular in canada, and vice versa. even in lfs, when i join a server hosted from south america i am often welcomed warmly with comments like, "canada has a great racing heritage".

Nice to know . The only opportunity I've had to see any "racing" in Canada was at this year's Knox Mountain Hillclimb in BC. I really wish events like that were more widespread.

Quote :scott speed isn't good, and he doesn't have any class either.

And my argument is that aside from being given a race seat, he's had neither the car nor the support (as has been revealed) to prove himself. If someone else were to jump in an STR car tomorrow and start belting out faster laps then believe me, I'd be the first one to negotiate my foot past my lips .
Quote from DrDNA :If someone else were to jump in an STR car tomorrow and start belting out faster laps then believe me, I'd be the first one to negotiate my foot past my lips .

Bourdais was faster than either race driver the last two times STR gave him test time.
It would be interesting to see how he would adapt to F1, given that he has complained a lot about blocking in the series he currently races. When/if he gets into F1 he will be in for a shock
Quote from Lateralus :Bourdais was faster than either race driver the last two times STR gave him test time.

Speed didn't drive in the most recent test at Spa. Bourdais tested, but Bourdais was (from what I can gather) 0.25s faster than Liuzzi in changing weather conditions (although he had 2 days to set his time as opposed to Liuzzi's 1). Speed's also been a stronger driver than Liuzzi this season, so who knows how he would've fared?

The test before that in December, Speed was driving with some sort of hand or wrist injury that also kept him out of the RoC, so those times aren't the purest example, either.

No idea what his first test results were like, though. It was a big enough pain finding those results .
Berger seemed happy, though, so obviously Bourdais impressed . Mario Andretti seems to think he's underappreciated, too.
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Adios, Speed.
(39 posts, started )
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