i really don't understand all that "i got no points"-discussion, because i think the point-system is good as it is.

i think the system prevents drivers to get license progress, if they do not have the pace for the tier servers. yeah you are right, there are situations where you don't get points although you finished top5. but if you don't get any points u didn't reach the 106% limit. and all people crying for points should think about that, because only the absence of fast drivers should not lead to points. so the system prevents progress from drivers visiting the servers in absence of the fast guys to get their license. why do you think, that u would get points on the higher servers, if u are not able to get points in the lower one. the guys on tier servers are the same as before and their pace will improve more and more, so the discussion will end in the same spot, if there would be drivers getting their licence without the pace u need.

so, IMO the system is good and if you are a fast driver u should get your points for the next licence. and i said it before: points are not everything!!! the standard of racing is the best u can find on the CTRA-servers, so enjoy the hot races!!!!!

BTW: i'm driver in the OWRL F1 league and yes there u get your points ONLY for position, BUT there was a quali-time and the drivers (teams) which can not go fast enough, were not in the league. so u can see, i think like in real life, the pace is very important!!!!!

Quote from Toddshooter :

I know, but this is a racing simulator ie: supposed to be realitic!
If your fastest lap meens so much why not have two or three lap races? Instead of 20 or 35 laps where the focus is more endurance?

Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet.

I was agreeing with you 100%!

It's a bit (ok, totally) bogus for a clean driver who consistently finishes well not to progress to higher levels.

Edit -> The way it is right now, you get happy you drove a clean race and got a good finish. Then CTRA says "NO YOU SUCK because you're not as fast as a hot-lapping god"

Quote from haelje :

i think the system prevents drivers to get license progress, if they do not have the pace for the tier servers. yeah you are right, there are situations where you don't get points although you finished top5. but if you don't get any points u didn't reach the 106% limit.

The problem I see with this, to go from bronze to silver, a driver should only need to be within 106% of top silver pace. (competitive on the next tier)

With the way it is now, bronze drivers have to be within 106% of PLATINUM pace just to progress.

okay, but i think this is not impossible, u only have to practice a lot to improve your pace. and then there should be no problem to reach the 106%, although the time is from a platinum driver

Quote from srdsprinter :

Edit -> The way it is right now, you get happy you drove a clean race and got a good finish. Then CTRA says "NO YOU SUCK because you're not as fast as a hot-lapping god"

i think thats not totally right, because u have to finish the race to get the time count. just doing a hotlap helps nothing, u have to end the whole race to get your points.

Quote from srdsprinter :

The problem I see with this, to go from bronze to silver, a driver should only need to be within 106% of top silver pace. (competitive on the next tier)

With the way it is now, bronze drivers have to be within 106% of PLATINUM pace just to progress.

Not true.

The server lap record could be held by a copper licensed racer, and you'd still need to be within 106% of it to be scoring.

Quote from srdsprinter :

It's a bit (ok, totally) bogus for a clean driver who consistently finishes well not to progress to higher levels.

No it isn't. If that were the case, and it were even remotely realistic (as Todd wants it to be) that would mean that my Gran would be a world-class racing driver as she's never had an accident behind the wheel of a car.

She might be slow, and struggle to get up to a heady 17mph, but by golly she's a racer through and through - she's such a clean driver the FIA give her points for spectating!

Quote from haelje :

okay, but i think this is not impossible, u only have to practice a lot to improve your pace. and then there should be no problem to reach the 106%, although the time is from a platinum driver

Except it doesn't take into account wind, which as seen can make a race worth 0 points for anyone.

The problem with the 106 is that everyone claims "You won't be competitive" in the next level server. Well, if someone consistently gets top-5 in bronze races now, I find it really hard to believe that he will be totally uncompetitive on a silver server.

Some people have suggested the system does not give points for position and focuses on lap times. This is false. To progress your licence you need both pace AND position, not one or the other.

However I accept that some drivers do wish to see some progress being made. So in a few weeks when all the glitches are ironed out and everything is running as it should be there will be a new feature on the CTRA servers to give something for those who are not yet ready to progress their licences something else to race for. This new thing will be based around position only, but at the moment that is all I am going to say.

When the system is stable and Sam is back from his holidays we will begin writing this new feature.

Quote from Christofire :

No it isn't. If that were the case, and it were even remotely realistic (as Todd wants it to be) that would mean that my Gran would be a world-class racing driver as she's never had an accident behind the wheel of a car.

She might be slow, and struggle to get up to a heady 17mph, but by golly she's a racer through and through - she's such a clean driver the FIA give her points for spectating!

READ the freaking quote. Consistently finishes WELL.

Quote from srdsprinter :

READ the freaking quote. Consistently finishes WELL.

It doesn't matter if you only finish well. If you work your way up by winning races against people who've played LFS for 5 minutes then you're still not going to do well against people on the next tier.


It's been said time and again that you need pace and you need racecraft to be able to use that pace during race conditions. We deal with people who have no racecraft and wrecklessly barge through the field. YOUare the only person who can sort out your pace. It's not even been a week, and instead of people going away and thinking about their car control, set ups, racing attitude to see if they can go faster they just say "the points system is unfair!"

How many of your setups did you create? How many of them have you played with and altered to your style of driving? How many times have you watched a replay of a fast lap to get the racing line, braking and turn-in points?

Can you honestly say that in the past few days since CTRA-X was launched you've done the above?

Quote from srdsprinter :

The problem I see with this, to go from bronze to silver, a driver should only need to be within 106% of top silver pace. (competitive on the next tier)

With the way it is now, bronze drivers have to be within 106% of PLATINUM pace just to progress.

This is what I'm trying to say. You are better at expressing your thoughts than I. I had no problem progressing before the switch over and I race clean I might add. Which I think is one of the most important things to consider. I'm 97% towards silver I must have been doing something right before. But maybe not.

Christofire: You're the one who didn't read what you quoted, and related your Granny to it.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Christofire: You're the one who didn't read what you quoted, and related your Granny to it.

I think you'll find my response addresses your points (pun not intended).

As you've handily ignored all my questions, I'll assume you haven't considered the new licences as a challenge, and instead would like to see the points cutoff lowered to just below your pace?

Quote from Christofire :

It's not even been a week, and instead of people going away and thinking about their car control, set ups, racing attitude to see if they can go faster they just say "the points system is unfair!"

How many of your setups did you create? How many of them have you played with and altered to your style of driving? How many times have you watched a replay of a fast lap to get the racing line, braking and turn-in points?

Can you honestly say that in the past few days since CTRA-X was launched you've done the above?

I have done some of these things I've tweaked my setups (not very well I might add!) I've watched the other faster drivers doing laps from in their car. I'm not saying the whole point system is unfair and I love CTRA servers because they are clean and lots of Grandmothers drive there. But I think the points need to be tweaked a bit too. AND my race atittude is fine thanks.

Quote from Christofire :

We deal with people who have no racecraft and wrecklessly barge through the field.

Man, what an ironic typo.

Quote from Christofire :

It doesn't matter if you only finish well. If you work your way up by winning races against people who've played LFS for 5 minutes then you're still not going to do well against people on the next tier.


It's been said time and again that you need pace and you need racecraft to be able to use that pace during race conditions. We deal with people who have no racecraft and wrecklessly barge through the field. YOUare the only person who can sort out your pace. It's not even been a week, and instead of people going away and thinking about their car control, set ups, racing attitude to see if they can go faster they just say "the points system is unfair!"

How many of your setups did you create? How many of them have you played with and altered to your style of driving? How many times have you watched a replay of a fast lap to get the racing line, braking and turn-in points?

Can you honestly say that in the past few days since CTRA-X was launched you've done the above?

So not only do you have to be a race god to get points now you also have to be a setup genius? I have watched plenty of replays of WR times, and if the damage system was up to par most of those cars would not last half a lap the way they through them over the curbs, not along the tires staying on.

Sorry but there has been more than one person post how they have seen one guy run a fast lap, but finish next to last and still get points. How does that teach some one race craft? Teaches hotlapping just fine though.

What I would like too see is a driver earn points for positions he finishes, which will teach him race craft, but not be able to move to the next server until he/she can run the required lap time.

Question - what is the fewest races you would have to run to move from bronze to silver, if you scored the maximum points each race?

Quote from Leadtail :

Sorry but there has been more than one person post how they have seen one guy run a fast lap, but finish next to last and still get points. How does that teach some one race craft? Teaches hotlapping just fine though.

I've been on the single seater server quite a bit since it started up (ranked 15th or something right now) and I've never seen this happen. Never seen anyone finish lower than 8th and get points.

Honestly, I think the points right now are fine. If there are a bunch of aliens on the server, yeah, it's going to be hard for new/slower guys to get points, but the racing is still good and that's really the point of the whole thing. Even when the aliens are around I've seen mid-pack guys score tons of points through persistence and clean driving. Lasting to the end without spinning, in my experience, usually guarantees a point or two unless you're drastically off the pace. Moreover, everyone I've raced with has been very accommodating with giving out good setups. spdoHuppis gave me his set for FE Gold the other day, and after a few races using it I was able to chop 3sec off my laps and won quite a few races there.

All in all, I think the system is working great.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Man, what an ironic typo.

lol...

Quote from Leadtail :

How does that teach some one race craft? Teaches hotlapping just fine though.

i think with such a strategy u are able to get some points, but i would take a long time to get the points for the next licence. and don't forget: u only see the results of the single driver and with this results u don't know what happened during the race (perhaps some of the here so called "hotlapper" had crashes while their races and so are not able to finish in a good positon).

Quote from haelje :

i think with such a strategy u are able to get some points, but i would take a long time to get the points for the next licence. and don't forget: u only see the results of the single driver and with this results u don't know what happened during the race (perhaps some of the here so called "hotlapper" had crashes while their races and so are not able to finish in a good positon).

Well it should cost him those points then. In real racing position comes before times. So those quick lap is worth nothing standing in the sand. Think CTRA should reflect that. I think its weird that if i finish before him i get no points because i am slow and he "screwes up" and still gets the reward. So i find he gets too much and i too little.

Quote from Toddshooter :

I have done some of these things I've tweaked my setups (not very well I might add!) I've watched the other faster drivers doing laps from in their car. I'm not saying the whole point system is unfair and I love CTRA servers because they are clean and lots of Grandmothers drive there. But I think the points need to be tweaked a bit too.

I think you just need to drive faster. You've only done 5000 miles online, you've apparently only had your license since April, you shouldn't be too surprised that most people are quicker than you.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be pushing hard to try to achieve the pace required to score points, if that was my goal. When I first started in LFS I set myself some goals, one of which I remember was to be as fast as Tristan. Two years later, I still haven't quite managed that yet but I have beaten some other people along the way who I never thought I could beat. I wouldn't expect Tristan to drive a bit slower so I could beat him, because that would take away the whole point of having a benchmark.

Here's a glass-half-full view for you: If you are consistent and fair and courteous already, then the only thing you need to work on is your pace. So you're half-way there.

Quote from SpikeyMarcoD :

Well it should cost him those points then. In real racing position comes before times. So those quick lap is worth nothing standing in the sand. Think CTRA should reflect that. I think its weird that if i finish before him i get no points because i am slow and he "screwes up" and still gets the reward. So i find he gets too much and i too little.

[sarcasm] Maybe the problem is not with CTRA. Maybe, the problem is with real racing rewarding finishing position? [/sarcasm]

In essence, the CTRA points system does nothing but propagate what is wrong with LFS: It encourages, nay rewards, drivers to push beyond their limits to get a fast lap(at the expense of maintaining control of their car. I.E. The whole car reset debacle).

Thought:
The system should reward the drivers within the 106% speed unless they are beaten by a driver outside the 106% hotlap.

A driver outside the 106% should get the points of the guy(s) he beat who got the 106% hotlap.

[quote]
[quote=thisnameistaken;500706]I think you just need to drive faster. You've only done 5000 miles online, you've apparently only had your license since April, you shouldn't be too surprised that most people are quicker than you.
[/quote]
I'm not suprised that lots of people are faster than me.
[quote]When I first started in LFS I set myself some goals, one of which I remember was to be as fast as Tristan. Two years later, I still haven't quite managed that yet but I have beaten some other people along the way who I never thought I could beat.[/quote]
Thats great!, but if you were racing Tristan and beat him or came second to him you would have, and did score points along the way?! (Right?) And it didn't matter how much faster he was than you. If you beat him in a race by passing him on the last corner and then were told you can't receive points because you weren't fast enough I'm sure you would have a different veiw on the subject? Maybe I'm wrong! But I don't think so.
[quote] I wouldn't expect Tristan to drive a bit slower so I could beat him, because that would take away the whole point of having a benchmark.[/quote]
Who said anything about asking people to slow down?