Hi everyone!!

Could somebody help me out with brake adjustments on XR GTR at AS National track or a good setup for all tracks?? Well, I was looking at WR HL at AS National and they can manage their brakes to stop the car in 100m coming from 270 KM/h... And, with my setup I can´t even manage to do this in 150m !! :Kick_Can_

PS.: I´m using 2000 Nm / 81% at the brakes setup (and 7º front/8º rear of downforce)

Hope someone help me before I get crazy... HEHEHE

you are probably locking up the front wheels.

try watching a replay of yourself, using the overhead view, with forces turned on, in slow motion. watch for the braking forces turning from green to red, and adjust your brake balance so that the fronts lock just slightly earlier than the rears.

7% too much front DF. Try 3 -5%.

Slo mo replays (as well described above), analyze for speed, and the timing of the downshifts can all help you reduce breaking distances.

Have you read : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=11154

Quote from evilgeek :

you are probably locking up the front wheels.

I´ve done that... all green (most of that at the front wheels, because of the brake force distribuction of 81%... ), but i still got a bad setup for brakes... I´ve download a Setup from team inferno and they commonly use 73%, but with this setup the rear tires lock all the time...

Any other ideas of what can i do??

If the rear tyres lock then you're downshifting too fast. I normally don't modify the brake balance more than 1-2% from the original value, because even these small changes already have a huge effect. 81% at front is definitely overkill and you probably waste a lot of brake distance by only using your fronts for braking. Whatever, the best method is to post a replay of you driving so we can see the your problem.

Quote from AndroidXP :

If the rear tyres lock then you're downshifting too fast. I normally don't modify the brake balance more than 1-2% from the original value, because even these small changes already have a huge effect. 81% at front is definitely overkill and you probably waste a lot of brake distance by only using your fronts for braking. Whatever, the best method is to post a replay of you driving so we can see the your problem.

Pssst..... XF GTR..... Front wheel drive car.....

AFAIK, the world record sets from Inferno are usually set with more rear brake bias to help them in trailbraking and rotating the rear end around while trailbraking. All it does is get my rear spun completely around rather than just rotating around the corner entry.

I generally increase the front bias by 3 and sometimes up to 5% over an Inferno set. One thing that takes time to do is learning the threshold of braking. I don't run the XF GTR much, but I'm guessing 2000 is a good bit heavy for full deflection of the pedal braking for that car. I run heavy braking force, but I don't use the entire brake pedal travel for braking. Also, as you slow down, the downforce is decreased, thus the front end gets "lighter" and it's easier to lock up the brakes. So, you have to learn to also start lifting off the pedal as you slow down.

It all comes along in time. I use to use 3000-3500 braking force in the FZR when I had my pedals modded for a stiff brake pedal (squashball mod to the MOMO pedals). General braking forces that you see in most setups for the FZR is around 1700-1900. I'm no longer using the squashball mod (my squashball split in half..), but I still use above average braking force because I only use partial deflection in my pedal.

AndroidXP & mrodgers,

Thanks for all the tips

As soon as I get home (working now... HEHEHE) I´ll make a video of the actual braking situation and with your proposal.

PS.: I was talking about the XR GTR (slower than FZR, but great car too:nod... So I will try to push a little harder my brake setup (around 3000 Nm) and a brake balance of ~75%, and let loose my 30 ton foot off the brakes as I get close to a turn!!

i'd recommend making changes by smaller increments until you zoom in on where you need to be. otherwise you can go from one bad setting to another bad setting, and miss the sweet spot.

i usually adjust balance 1% at a time, and braking force 25 Nm at a time.

if you find that even with the major factors sorted you still can't get enough braking out of the rear tires, you might consider increasing your rear rebound and/or front bump dampers, in order to reduce the forward weight transfer. but don't try this until you've got your brake balance and pressure settings nailed, and keep in mind that it will affect your corning balance too, meaning you might have to adjust your arbs as well.

Quote from aerolitos :

PS.: I was talking about the XR GTR (slower than FZR, but great car too:nod...

Whoops, I was wrong, I said the XF. Sorry Android....

I wasn't recommending you go with 3000 Nm on braking force! 3000 Nm is incredibly strong brakes. I only used those numbers when I had a VERY stiff brake pedal, meaning I just touched the pedal an it would brake. It felt a bit like an actual pressure sensitive system where I probably only used 1/8th to less than 1/4th of the pedal movement or I'd lock the brakes.

I don't know about the XR, I don't drive that one much if at all. But just that around 1700-1900 seems to be the norm for FZR, so your original 2000 could be in the ballpark.

I'm by no means the fastest cat on ASNat in the XRR, but I have tried a lot of sets, and 2000 Nm seems a tad high. Even on my G25, which has a pretty stiff brake pedal (by racing wheel standards), I find myself locking up too often using that much force. I've seen some fast sets using just over 1650, and never seen one over 1800. With 2000 Nm, you're only going to be able to use full deflection getting into turn one (where you aren't on the brakes very long), and at the very beginning of the braking zone for the hard left hander. Especially with the bias that far forward, you're making it extremely difficult on yourself to avoid locking a front wheel or two.

If that's your style, then go with it, but I find brake force around 1700-1800 to be easiest to use on the XRR (and it's not just my 1:44.3 running self--that's what the fast kids are using, too).

One other thing to bring up that factors into braking distance--what are your differential settings? While preposterously unrealistic, I find that using the locked diff* helps braking distances when coming down through the gears. While you may not want to use one as it presents other difficulties, tightening up your LSD on the coast side might help you shave a few meters off your stopping distances.

Oh, and you know that 30 Kg Scawen makes you lug around in the XRR? You can put that whereever you want (under the "Info" tab in the setup screen). Shoving it towards the rear of the car makes the XRR's F/R weight distribution more equal, and seems to help with braking. So try playing with that as well.

First of all, thanks for mrodgers/lawdog/evilgeek/HVS5b by giving me those tips, i´m getting real nice PB with that (actually 1:43.20, and with some improvements I´m sure that this number can decrease a bit)

Quote from lawdog :

I'm by no means the fastest cat on ASNat in the XRR, but I have tried a lot of sets, and 2000 Nm seems a tad high. Even on my G25, which has a pretty stiff brake pedal (by racing wheel standards), I find myself locking up too often using that much force. I've seen some fast sets using just over 1650, and never seen one over 1800. With 2000 Nm, you're only going to be able to use full deflection getting into turn one (where you aren't on the brakes very long), and at the very beginning of the braking zone for the hard left hander. Especially with the bias that far forward, you're making it extremely difficult on yourself to avoid locking a front wheel or two.

Correct, I´m using 1950 Nm now (a little bit less then the inferno set) and for braking balance (that was used 74%) a little change of 2% (76%) gave me the correct distribuction at the end. Little adjustments in my foot weight helped too

Quote from lawdog :

One other thing to bring up that factors into braking distance--what are your differential settings? While preposterously unrealistic, I find that using the locked diff* helps braking distances when coming down through the gears. While you may not want to use one as it presents other difficulties, tightening up your LSD on the coast side might help you shave a few meters off your stopping distances.

The locked diff* is helping me out to brake faster than I was braking before... braking in 100m with no problem!

Quote from lawdog :

Oh, and you know that 30 Kg Scawen makes you lug around in the XRR? You can put that whereever you want (under the "Info" tab in the setup screen). Shoving it towards the rear of the car makes the XRR's F/R weight distribution more equal, and seems to help with braking. So try playing with that as well.

Will try that!! But 30 kg is a big weight loss for this car...

Quote from evilgeek :

if you find that even with the major factors sorted you still can't get enough braking out of the rear tires, you might consider increasing your rear rebound and/or front bump dampers, in order to reduce the forward weight transfer. but don't try this until you've got your brake balance and pressure settings nailed, and keep in mind that it will affect your corning balance too, meaning you might have to adjust your arbs as well.

One thing that I realised yesterday was the influence of Bump bound/rebound into entry/exit of curves. and I don´t know why can I have a totally understeer setup for this vehicle... !! for example, if I set the front bound/rebound lower than rear bias, the car use to enter better in curves, but at the curve exits it oversteers... Anyone knows how could i have a "perfect" understeer setup (or closer to that)??

PS.: Forgot to save the replay/setup... but when I end that, I´ll send it to you all!!

try softer anti-roll in the rear

Quote from aerolitos :

One thing that I realised yesterday was the influence of Bump bound/rebound into entry/exit of curves. and I don´t know why can I have a totally understeer setup for this vehicle... !! for example, if I set the front bound/rebound lower than rear bias, the car use to enter better in curves, but at the curve exits it oversteers... Anyone knows how could i have a "perfect" understeer setup (or closer to that)??

PS.: Forgot to save the replay/setup... but when I end that, I´ll send it to you all!!

Do you have Bob Smith's Setup Analyzer/Project 3? If not download it here. It has an awesome feature for setting damping, which shows you the effects of your damping changes, and you should be able to play around and get it set so that it will oversteer a tad on corner entry while reducing braking, but be neutral on corner exit while increasing throttle. Of course, you still have to try those changes out in the game, but this program has taught me tons about setting up cars.

Quote from lawdog :

Do you have Bob Smith's Setup Analyzer/Project 3? If not download it here. It has an awesome feature for setting damping, which shows you the effects of your damping changes, and you should be able to play around and get it set so that it will oversteer a tad on corner entry while reducing braking, but be neutral on corner exit while increasing throttle. Of course, you still have to try those changes out in the game, but this program has taught me tons about setting up cars.

Quite a nice program indeed!

I started to use that one 1 week ago... And with that, my setup it´s just 100 times better then it was (I´ve done a 1:43.00 in AS National with the XRR, and I still think that this number will decrease a bit - And 10 straight laps Below 1:44.00 in Cone Dodgers server).

I´ve setup the absorvers to have a oversteer bound effect and a understeer rebound effect, so when I start to brake to enter in a tight corner (with the correct brake balance - 76% and 1900 Nm) the car don´t even start a spin move, and at the corner exit I go with full throttle now... Just as I needed!

PS.: Tonight I´ll reply this post with the setup for who want to give I try...

Quote from aerolitos :

PS.: Tonight I´ll reply this post with the setup for who want to give I try...

How about that, aerolitos? I'd like to try your set, as your brake settings are so different from mine. I wonder if you're found other solutions that are different as well. Incidentally, here's what I'm currently running with (you were talking about AS3, and this is my set for that track). It's set up to be relatively stable, for the ham-fisted driver (i.e., me), so there's not too much oversteer. The problems with this set seem to be that (a) it won't carry much more than 103 mph through the apex of turn 1, which is 10 mph slower than the front runners, and (b) it sometimes understeers into "the left hander," or what I think of as Turn 2. Both of those, though, might be attributed to my own driving finesse, or lack thereof.