My problem with the FOX is nothing to do with putting the power on what I find is an issue is unexpected oversteer between turn in and power down, probably a lot to do with being light and unrealistic but fast sets that rely on having the power down early to keep them stable. I find the FOX harder to drive than the FO8 which is a doddle in comparison. I'm sure a lot of it bores down to the fact I've practiced a lot more in the FO8 and most of the sets are designed to be stable for the longer distances they usually run in leagues.
I think they are very realistic. It doesn't matter where you are in the corner - that doesn't influence whether the rears spin up. It's how much throttle you use and how much lock you have on at that moment when you apply the power.
None taken
Like i said, im not saying it... im not sure of the word, but I have played GPL and am underthe benchmarks for all tracks except nurburgring, and a few seconds of WR's on some of the tracks, I realise if you have alot of steering lock and fullthrottle, usually when its FULL LOCK you will understeer, but as soon as the wheels can into a position to turn in a circle which is reletive to your speed, thats when the car gets loose at the rear. The car is great to drive but it just seems like your constantly driving on the edge of a crest, when your coming out of a corner, as if the rears have just gone over a bump.
Really nice setups felt completely stable at my rather dismal pace but at least I'm now able to work on driving the car faster not keeping it on the road
Well you can't really compare a car with downforce and radial slicks to a car with no downforce and hard cross-ply racing tires. Then take into account setup, one car was setup to do glorious controllable four wheel drifts the other isn't. I don't really think the issue with a lot of the FOX sets is applying the power, after all it only has 190bhp and if you can't get that down without spinning all over the place you should be trying to race
More my issue is the throttle off characteristics, as in the car isn't stable in the transition period, which isn't an issue for quick people who know exactly when to brake so they're go straight to throttle, but causes problems when you take time before getting on the throttle again.Not driven a Formula car recently have you? Even a modestly powered one will quite happily 'light up the rears' out of corners if you are heavy footed. But the drivers you see on TV AREN'T heavy footed. Thus you get the impression they grip and grip and grip. Wrong.
I played GPL... that is a 'calling card' of sort so give me a break, i know what im doing just not on LFS because the game engine is different.
It's not even so much the physics engine, more the total difference in driving technique, maybe you'll find the LX6 an easier car to help you across the transition rather than trying to dive straight into wings + slicks.
And that means that modern Formula cars (as in LFS ones) have too little grip? What?
yes thats exactly what it means!
I don't get it. I have of course driven GPL quite a lot a few years back, and I have driven a semi-contemporary Formula car as you know. But I don't see why GPL cars grip levels have anything to do with LFS or real life grip levels of modern cars.
Take a formula ford - 100hp, no wings, modern tyres and suspension, and they'll spin on corner exit EASILY. Double the horsepower, add wings and slicks. It'll still spin corner exit EASILY. 700hp, easy spins. 900hp easy spins.
I just don't see your parallel or meaning really, so I'll reiterate my statement...
Have you driven a modern Formula car recently in real life? Leant on it, on the limit? Experimented getting back on the power earlier and earlier?
Take a formula ford - 100hp, no wings, modern tyres and suspension, and they'll spin on corner exit EASILY. Double the horsepower, add wings and slicks. It'll still spin corner exit EASILY. 700hp, easy spins. 900hp easy spins.
I just don't see your parallel or meaning really, so I'll reiterate my statement...
Have you driven a modern Formula car recently in real life? Leant on it, on the limit? Experimented getting back on the power earlier and earlier?
As much as i want to agree with you, i just can't, yes, if the FOX was a Forumla Ford type car, i could accept it, but its not is it, its a Forumla Renault of sort, and i just can't accept that Formula Renaults handle this way.
Well your problem probably bores down to the fact that your firstly on slicks so you have a lot more grip avaliable but a somewhat stepper drop off than treaded tires but more importantly that extra grip means that even if you have half the power you're still able to put more of it onto the ground before the wheels start to spin and when you do that and loose the rear grip you still have sticky slicks and downforce pinning the front down so the back end just flys round, in GPL though the lack of grip is all round and you just adopt a four wheel drift.
Watch tristans rockingham video. Shows how modestly powered single seaters like turning round, a lot. (sorry tristan)
the formula cars you see on TV are drivers who are there for a reason, they have good car control and they can stop the car from trying to kill them. thats why you get the impression that the cars are grippy.
Uhm.. I've heard people complain it has too much grip..
But I think the grip is fine. The FOX has got HUGE grip. I haven't spun that thing for a long time.. Maybe the "lack" of grip isn't so much in the FOX, but more in the driver?
Just so you know, in testing at Snetterton I was faster down the straights than the Formula Renaults, so I have around the same power/drag. I also have wider slicks (though probably a harder compound). I am also a lot less talented than the F Renault driver. He was quicker than me (as you'd expect in a newer car with more talent), yet my car (and his if I drove it) will quite happily kill you at any corner.
Here's a simple and quick tip to FOX beginners.
If you think you are driving at the limit of the FOX, PUSH HARDER! As many seasoned FOX racers will confirm, the faster you drive the FOX, the smoother it goes and more grip it has.
Due to the weight, lack of great mechanical grip and balance, FOX doesn't like going slow. You have to enter corners with trottle on and try no to brake too long as you would in TBO's.
When you brake, brake while keeping the car streight, release brake THEN turn in and gun it. The weight shift will allow you to position your car into the apex while the trottle will increase your speed, shift weight to rear, effectivly increasing mechanical and aero grip.
The only time you should ever spin the FOX is if your pushing extremly hard exiting and touch a patch of grass or racing with fried tires.
Good luck getting there.
If you think you are driving at the limit of the FOX, PUSH HARDER! As many seasoned FOX racers will confirm, the faster you drive the FOX, the smoother it goes and more grip it has.
Due to the weight, lack of great mechanical grip and balance, FOX doesn't like going slow. You have to enter corners with trottle on and try no to brake too long as you would in TBO's.
When you brake, brake while keeping the car streight, release brake THEN turn in and gun it. The weight shift will allow you to position your car into the apex while the trottle will increase your speed, shift weight to rear, effectivly increasing mechanical and aero grip.
The only time you should ever spin the FOX is if your pushing extremly hard exiting and touch a patch of grass or racing with fried tires.
Good luck getting there.
Just wondering why you say the FOX has a lack of mechanical grip? Are you refering to weight? I wonder if that is mechanical grip or downforce
Imo, its not so much that its lacking mechanical grip, its just that it relies so much more on downforce, if that makes any sense (probably not).
Maybe i will just try full downforce settings, or a sufficiant ammount, and gradually reduce it
the car will be slloooww with full downforce settings. Just find a decent grippy set and adapt it, and just remember that the faster you go, the more grip you have. Most people find the FOX okay, and at least pretty accurate. Tristan owns an open wheeler which isnt 100 miles away from the FOX, and he says its accurate. I pretty much believe that over somebodys experience with GPL.
I never really saw the big deal with GPL btw, probably because i only started playing it like a year ago. Its good and all, and fun to drive those particular cars, but i never found it hard, the car was reluctant to spin and the only time it tried to kill me was when going out of really slow corners, and it was very easily corrected.
If your finding unexpected oversteer to be a real problem you could try adding more rear wing or reducing rear ARB and just accepting a horribly understeery car, which will be far less satisfying in the long run.
Me thinks you probably didn't have it on its limit, unlike the FOX and winged single seaters they're easy to drive slowly and relatively quickly in a conventional manner, when you push them far beyond what you think they should do and learn to let them drift then it becomes demanding, not so much because of the difficulty to drive the car but the extreme speeds on dangerous tracks meaning there's no room for error.
Me thinks you probably didn't have it on its limit, unlike the FOX and winged single seaters they're easy to drive slowly and relatively quickly in a conventional manner, when you push them far beyond what you think they should do and learn to let them drift then it becomes demanding, not so much because of the difficulty to drive the car but the extreme speeds on dangerous tracks meaning there's no room for error.
Remove all downforce and do a lap on SO (any track) and you'll see what I mean. By nature all open wheelers/single seaters rely almost exclusively on downforce rather them mechanical grip due to weight and space limits. As such, these cars become very unreliable at low speeds even with their low horsepower and very low weight. Their balance is set through downforce rather then weight balance hence why you see this problem. (the majority of the weight is on the real axle.)
The reason why Monaco and Macau are few of the hardest tracks in the Formula world is not just the tarmac but the low speed nature of the track. And the fact that Macau is bloody narrow as it gets
As you know, the faster you push the FOX the better it grips. I quite often find myself going faster just to make a corner. Funky but it works.
(Speaking of which, MAN I really wanna drive a F3 in LFS. Just imagine the fun)
cant see wot your on about.. front wheel drive cars are easy specially the FXO is the most easiest car to drive in the game ... but then that my opinion step up from FXO to XFR :P wicked 
Well it took a few hours of training but I'm really getting good at driving in the fox now. Even those oversteer setups aren't a pain in the ass as they were before. Now my only problem is staying consistend... When I hotlap it's like 3 crap laps and then 1 flying lap 2 seconds faster than the previous ones. Any suggestions on that ?
Don't push as hard. Simple as that.
How to drive the FoX?
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