I do think they should release the source code it would prob not do any harm.
And some real tracks would be great!

Quote from Falkowski83 :

But hey, keep playing. I know I'll receive a physics update. I just don't know when. And I know I have the RIGHT to DEMAND updates, because I PAID for a PRODUCT.

And here you are completely wrong, but damn, I'm a n00b, scawen has beaten me once more... Damn slowpoke I am. As I said already to other guy, you just dont understand the LFS way, so go play any other game, until you get back to LFS. That's how the Devs actually also like it. If there is some better game, go out and PLAY it for gods sake. The day, you'll receive the newsletter from liveforspeed.net or get info from any gaming forum, you'll download the patch or the new full version anyway, unlock it with your still working unlock password and have a go at it. I simply know, you'll do that. So it doesnt matter if there comes out a sim from EA every year, where you pay 50 bucks each time for updates, or you download the free updates for LFS once in a while. I'd choose the LFS way always, but that's just me then

Do you honestly think GTL's sampled from tables of values physics are more accurate than LFS, if less buggy for now? What I am saying is that we have not seen any real improvements in LFS that affect us for the past 5 months or so and we have forgotten the rapid pace that Scawen can spit patches out at. I admit LFS is flawed at the moment for downforce cars. The low speed tyre physics may be iffy too. This is why I spend my time concentrating on road cars for now. When the physics are sorted I will learn to drive the race cars too. Improvements are soon comming. Hang in there for another 3 or so months and wait for the next patch. If it doesn't float your boat come back and discuss it again (in a civilized manner and not asking the devs to change their philosophy and the reason why they are here, but rather suggesting ways to work around the problem while maintaining the same philosophy - if you can't find any you can simply comment on the product and wait for updates). That is all I am saying to all LFS doubters at the moment - hang in there for another 3 months (or when the next physics patch comes) and see what the devs put together. If you still don't like it, then complain.

Vykos, as I already said, I know how LFS works.

And now I want you to go back and see where I demanded things. I didn't made one single demand (perhaps I mentioned about the aero stuff in my fisrt post, but that is aknown issue and I know it's being worked on). I just said that as a consumer I have the right to demand things where I paid for a product and in some ways of viewing it, didn't receive what I was "supposed" to.

And yes, I play other games, I have a life and a lot of work, so LFS isn't a top priority for me. It is just for fun.

I'll just stop now. It doesn't make sense continue this argument when you (or we) are uncapable of understanding what we (or you) are trying to say.

omg...

Well to be honest i admire the devs patience and you should be thankful for their replys here and also for their work.

I play all the games, GTR, GTP, rFactor and i enjoy all a lot, and in my point of view those games are better in some ways than LFS, more realist, or better graffics or sound, well doesnt matter..

LFS have something special that i noticed in my first contact with it.. this since 0.2 version and i´m still playing it and enjoy every lap and every km on it, and i dont really need a new patch to have fun in LFS, coz it have a fantastic community and also a fantastic development team that is listening the community to make a better game with their feedback and they are also always ready to help us... for this i´m very thankful.

I trust in the devs to finish their work as a "costumer" i´m very happy with their work until now..

First of all dear Scawen, you should know we all, LFS racers in Brazil, respect you and your conrades Victor e Erick.

We respect at high level your work. We never support piracy or unlock ways to "test" LFS.

We've fought for you, we are your sellers, not commissioned. I think that, just from me and my eulogizes ,there are probably a new half dozen S2 licenced players these last months...

We have servers, we have sites and leagues, and yes, we have a good and fiel community here, not the biggest, but one of the best, including many hotlappers such as Mogar and Carlos as you can see in the tables...

And thanks God, for us and for you (if you can see this), we are not blinded, we are not members of a religious sect.

That is good, once we are not here just to suck your balls, but also to show you what is going not good enough.

Of course we are not here meaning to rule your days, but we are trying to say to you, cleary and loudly: we don't want to like another SIM, but we are about to!

Please community, stop cheating you don't mind about concurrency. Stop cheating you don't mind about graphics, about sound and about other stuffs that yes, make difference.

And mainly, devs, stop cheating you don't mind about market, cause you need to eat, and you need money like we all need, and if you have no money, you will be obligate to find jobs, and LFS will be delegated to a second plane for sure...

We hope for a great future for this SIM, but not a so far way future.

You are a public person Scawen, and when you give your work to the world you became a target, and when you sold your work to the market, you became a business man, so you have to get used with the criticism, once you are polular and you are a seller.

There is no offense here. It is just what it is.

We are not here to offend you, we are not here to rule your work, I repeat.

When you say that is the "way you choose to develop the game", my doubt is if it's about the final result you are looking for, the target, the great objective of your work, or if you are talkings about the not-ruled-by-the-clock you choose to work...

I concern about the second option cause the clock never stops..

Quote from Speed Soro :

Directionless essay

Most of the LFS community has been around long enough to know that the improvements are soon going to come and LFS will again be light years ahead of everything else out there. I am not blinded, you haven't thought about what's cooking and you haven't thought what is coming in the next physics patch. I say this again: wait for the next incompatible patch where all the work that Eric and Scawen have done behind the scenes that we haven't seen yet will be seen. Assess it. I think it will amaze you. The issues in LFS are known - you haven't discovered anything new when you say the aerodynamics has a bug. They are being worked on at a rapid pace that hasn't been seen by many new people. Just wait and see what the devs come up with.

Quote from Speed Soro :

Please community, stop cheating you don't mind about concurrency. Stop cheating you don't mind about graphics, about sound and about other stuffs that yes, make difference.

hahahahaha, guess what, a lot in the community, if not all say, that sound e.g. in LFS is not good YET, but they know someday it'll kick ass

Quote :

And mainly, devs, stop cheating you don't mind about market, cause you need to eat, and you need money like we all need, and if you have no money, you will be obligate to find jobs, and LFS will be delegated to a second plane for sure...

Just go read in RSC and several old posts, where scawen said: "thanks to the licenses sold the FULL development of LFS is save."

Bet get your homework (=read, read and read) done, b4 assuming, you are posting nu shit here. It's one of the oldest topics and it was cleared up several times b4.

Quote :

We are not here to offend you, we are not here to rule your work, I repeat.

rofl, better read your own post once again.

Quote :

When you say that is the "way you choose to develop the game", my doubt is if it's about the final result you are looking for, the target, the great objective of your work, or if you are talkings about the not-ruled-by-the-clock you choose to work...

I thought you dont want to rule him? Step back, go buy rfactor or nkpro, enjoy it for the time being. You'll be back to LFS anyway sooner or later. Just stop that shittie "I demand, you dev. faster, cause I know you wanna sell more etc." It's bullshit, it doesnt work, and if I say THAT, you better believe. Dont wanna sound arrogant, but besides some others I prolly have some experience in especially that topic with the devs.

Quote from Speed Soro :

First of all dear Scawen, you should know we all, LFS racers in Brazil, respect you and your conrades Victor e Erick.

We respect at high level your work. We never support piracy or unlock ways to "test" LFS.

We've fought for you, we are your sellers, not commissioned.

Thanks for your fighting. I know you want the best for LFS. But all i can explain is that we do already work on LFS as hard as possible. And yes we can work as late into the night as we want, and don't set an alarm clock. Did i ever say that alarm clocks aren't the best thing for humans? It's really nicer if you can sleep until you wake up. Alarm clocks are the product of jobs that run to strict schedules, and that is one thing we are lucky enough to have been able to escape.

Anyway, the number of hours for the past few years is quite extreme, i have worked to my physical limit. Since S2 Alpha, the pace is slower and after a much needed break, the language patch was a very nice way to finally get something done that needed doing, while getting me back into coding.

We will NOT form a company and begin to employ staff. So here is my point : if we are working as hard as possible, and we won't employ staff, how can we possibly produce any more work, more quickly? It'll just take as long as it takes! I've said that i'm working on physics next, actually that starts in January, as this month i work on my house and spend some time studying and considering physics at a relaxed pace.

Quote from Speed Soro :

And mainly, devs, stop cheating you don't mind about market, cause you need to eat, and you need money like we all need, and if you have no money, you will be obligate to find jobs, and LFS will be delegated to a second plane for sure...

We're not cheating about this, or trying to deceive you or ourselves. It is a business, that's for sure. But what we see a bit too much in the modern world, is where every single decision made by a business, goes through the filter "will this make more money" and the decision to do anything, is based on the answer to that question. That's not something we like, and we think the best businesses have some other philosophy. In our case, we do not deny that LFS is a business and the money we make is important. But we do not need to and do not base our design decisions on financial considerations. We just do what we are inspired to do, and that we think will make a better game and sim. That's why LFS is here and that's the way we will carry on.

There was a time in my life that i can choice:
Good money, and stressful hard work
or
average money and free way to do things in my way.

I choice second option, devs had similar question to answer.

For sure! I wish more people would take that on board.

Quote from Simon Savage :

I do think they should release the source code it would prob not do any harm.
And some real tracks would be great!

WTF? Scawen may be very generous but I doubt even he wants to through away all the knowledge he has gained, on the plus side ISI might actually be able to look at it and begin to understand how a car works, not Codies though, I have no hope at all for them

To Speed Soro...

Not everything is about money, or market, it really isnt, some people do it cos they like what they do, I love the way LFS is worked on, I bought my S2 licence and am very pleased with the product I bought. Anything more is a bonus that I will pay for whenever the time comes.

I hope that the developers will keep working on updates and patches just as much as the rest of you, but meanwhile, back at the ranch, life goes on.

To Falkowski83...

So your a lawyer... illepall and...?

I would really love to see both your Online Racing Simulations when they are finished, good luck.

Quote from Falkowski83 :

Here is where you are completely wrong bud. The developers MUST listen to us. WE are CUSTOMERS. We PAID for a PRODUCT.

Okay then if thats your logic then I'll go and demand Mesh Computers to update my computer illepall

Keiran

Quote from Falkowski83 :

didn't receive what I was "supposed" to.

Just a quick question on this. When haven't you receive what you was "supposed" to? You paid for S2, yes. OK so you are lucky, and you have S2 Alpha and are able to play this before S2 is out. S2 isn't out yet, so yes atm you haven't received what you have paid for, but on the site, it clearly stats, that you are paying in advance, so cannot see the consumer arguement here.

Example: You pay £500 for a new stereo, but only get the amp, as the other parts are not finished. You knew this, but wished to pay upfront. Thats your choice? Same goes for LFS. Its your Choice.

Quote from Scawen :

and we aren't following standard routes

Thank god for that

Quote from Scawen :

We will NOT form a company and begin to employ staff. So here is my point : if we are working as hard as possible, and we won't employ staff, how can we possibly produce any more work, more quickly? It'll just take as long as it takes! I've said that i'm working on physics next, actually that starts in January, as this month i work on my house and spend some time studying and considering physics at a relaxed pace.

In fairness to the Devs they do work pretty quickly, it's taken Netkar 3+ years to be re-written and Racing Legends is still a couple of decades away

Quote from keiran :

Okay then if thats your logic then I'll go and demand Mesh Computers to update my computer illepall

Keiran

Dude, I won't even comment on this. They don't have the need to update your computer. But if you get a flawed hardware they have to trade it for a functional part, right?

Lol

Quote from Fordman :

Just a quick question on this. When haven't you receive what you was "supposed" to? You paid for S2, yes. OK so you are lucky, and you have S2 Alpha and are able to play this before S2 is out. S2 isn't out yet, so yes atm you haven't received what you have paid for, but on the site, it clearly stats, that you are paying in advance, so cannot see the consumer arguement here.

Example: You pay £500 for a new stereo, but only get the amp, as the other parts are not finished. You knew this, but wished to pay upfront. Thats your choice? Same goes for LFS. Its your Choice.

We all know that there are people who buy things without reading one line and expect things to be the regular way (you always pay for a finished product). This people might believe they were cheated in some way, because they received a 'flawed' alpha product.

Also, about the End-User license agreement: that doesn't work as a regular contract. You do not sign that, and it works like a "click-wrap" contract. This is not considered a valid expression of will by the consumer, according to the Model Law on Eletronic Commerce of the UNCITRAL.

Again, this is not my point of view, as I know how LFS is developed and I agreed on paying in advance for a finished product.

Basically, we are thousands of beta testers who already paid for a product we don't know if we are going to receive.

Quote from Falkowski83 :

Basically, we are thousands of beta testers who already paid for a product we don't know if we are going to receive.

But you will, eventually. Scawen said S2 will be released. When, who knows, but IT WILL be released. Now maybe you are confusing this with S3. NOBODY has paid for S3 yet.

But yes, you HAVE paid for S2 and you will receive S2, just when its ready.

Quote from Fordman :

NOBODY has paid for S3 yet.

Tristan says he has. Although I think in reality Tristan has made a contribution to the data transfer bill for the forums

It'ssupposedly possible to pay for S3, the way Tristan's done it. If you pay extra, it's held back in the payer's name and used towards paying for S3 when it's released.

c`mon we have a great oportunity of playing this alpha version with loads of improvements from S1. Its not finished yet, but i prefer this version much more than my old S1.

Quote from Fordman :

But you will, eventually. Scawen said S2 will be released. When, who knows, but IT WILL be released. Now maybe you are confusing this with S3. NOBODY has paid for S3 yet.

But yes, you HAVE paid for S2 and you will receive S2, just when its ready.

Yup. the only way we are not going to receive S2 final is if something REALLY bad happens (I won't even say this here because it could cause some bad luck. lol). But I believe you all understand what I mean).

And no, I'm not confusing with S3. And yes, as already mentioned above, there are people who already paid for S3.

S3 first the S2 should be completed :S

dont dream s2 is in alpha version

Scawen,

I'm one between many that trust in your efforts to achieve the best racing simulation. I also believe you've worked hardly a lot of months before s2 release.

My intention here was never to dict what or when you must to do things, neither what things you, Vic and Erick ought to.

Face it just being a thermometer.

Have a nice day, keep working :color:

Quote from A few people here :

Already paid for S3

Yes, I am also one of those people. As you can see, I paid for it in 2004l. Why, well I just wanted to show my support for the Team and I had the money then. If it doesn't arrive, well then they can have a few beers on me.

Fordie