Australian GP: Q2 - Felipe Massa retires with a mechanical failure
Spanish GP: Race - Kimi Raikkonen retires with a mechanical failure
European GP: Race - Kimi Raikkonen retires with a mechanical failure

Then there is the crash in Qualifying for the Monaco GP where Kimi clipped a wall. Also Massa running the red light and getting black flagged at Canada during the race.

(just incase you thought I wasn't up to date on my facts)


My arguement is that Mclarens raw pace (when they unlocked it) was better than Ferraris, however their reliability and the fact they had two drivers who didn't like each other and had totally different styles (leading to the team taking two different development paths) seriously affected their season. Therefore it was far from the best car that season (but I didn't claim it was)

Ferrari did not have those issues, so the area they needed to improve was the raw pace of the car. That and the new team means they are struggling with similar things that Mclaren did last season (cooling, reliability, driver error). So since both teams have taken different development paths for 2007, I doubt even if they had info on each other they would use it. Which was the point I was making, but clearly some people would like several paragraphs to explain what the meaning behind 'habit of blowing up' is.

Nothing happened, just a warning.

i find it somewhat odd that everyone is buying the argument that so long as mclaren didn't put any ferrari technology in their cars, then everything is peachy.

if they were the underdogs, with a small budget, perhaps they would be tempted to steal, and use, another team's technology. but being as competative as they are, making an identical car wouldn't make any sense, because it would put them on equal ground. they would be much more likely to analyze the ferrari designs, looking for weaknesses, and then develop their own technology to be better in those areas. "know your enemy" and all that.

think of star wars. the rebels didn't build their own death star after acquiring the specs. they analyzed them, found a weakness and blew it up.

It's just another example of the FIA completely failing to achieve a joined-up policy on enforcing its own rulebook, and IMO more proof that F1 is more a circus than a sport.

The whole Renault "mass dampers are aerodynamic devices" bollocks last year, along with the oblivious acceptance of Ferrari's silly hubcaps, was bad enough. Now we've got a team that has a driver who is worth a fortune to the sport and it appears to have made them untouchable.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those silly wheely wing hubcaps! Every time I see them I keep thinking "why are Ferrari allowed to keep using them?" They came in at the same time the whole 'moveable' wing debate was going on, but the FIA barely batted an eyelid. Also, after the last race I am very surprised they are still using them. Nobody said anything about the hubcap coming off on the main straight and causing several drivers to take avoiding action.

Toyota seems to be the only other team to have adopted them.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Then there is the crash in Qualifying for the Monaco GP where Kimi clipped a wall. Also Massa running the red light and getting black flagged at Canada during the race.

Well, we're talking about reliability, I don't think Massa getting black flagged or Kimi's mistake at Monaco counts as a "reliability" failure.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Last year the Mclaren was the fastest car by quite some way, the problem was it had a habit of blowing up. Mclaren mostly worked on improving reliability for 2007, since they already had the speed advantage to work with. I seriously doubt that Mclaren used any Ferrari information to improve their reliability, given that this years Ferrari is more like last years Mclaren, fast when it works but blows up too much.

Also they say they will not punish Mclaren 'for now' which may mean an end of season penalty of some kind. But like P5YcHoM4N said, they may be waiting for more evidence to surface. I am glad to see egg on Ferraris face after all the leaks to the media they made trying to damage Mclarens image.

Quote from Leprekaun :

Thats quite an exaggeration, dont you think? . Ferrari have only had 2 retirements this year due to technical problems, Massa's retirement at Canada was due to a black flag which is Massa's fault. Mclaren's car had terrible reliability over the years, only this year, they finally understood the quote "to finish first, first you have to finish". Tbh, I have no idea where you got the idea that Mclaren had the best car last year because Ferrari and Renault were waay ahead of everyone else. Mclaren had some lucky days but often, they ended in retirement.

Please explain where I even mentioned driver error having anything to do with reliability in my first post, or indeed my 2nd one. I mentioned the two incidents in my second post so that you didn't get confused again, thinking I was saying they have had 5 mechanical failures when it is 3 mechanical and 2 driver.

Quote from mrbogeyman :

Also, after the last race I am very surprised they are still using them. Nobody said anything about the hubcap coming off on the main straight and causing several drivers to take avoiding action.

Toyota seems to be the only other team to have adopted them.

Renault have them on the rear wheels. I think it was a Renault hubcap that came off on the straight last week actually.

They're too concerned with creating an artificially close competition to punish people properly for breaking the rules.

Maybe Mclaren have faxed the documents to all the other teams!

After this farce I like my avatar even more.

Quote from deggis :

After this farce I like my avatar even more.

fairly intelligent is pushing it a bit, surely?

I can think of another one that might be better...******* Ignorent *****
Free cookies to whoever fills in the blanks

*expletives removed by moderator

Flowery Ignorant Amoebas?

Fume Inhaling Addicts?

Quote from mrbogeyman :

Oh yeah, I forgot about those silly wheely wing hubcaps! Every time I see them I keep thinking "why are Ferrari allowed to keep using them?"

All of the other teams approved the Ferrari hub caps. Expect to see similar or improved devices on other cars in the future.

Quote from Gunn :

All of the other teams approved the Ferrari hub caps. Expect to see similar or improved devices on other cars in the future.

Like with spinning blade attachments? I suppose Spyker would be the obvious team to do it. Did they get rid of Albers so they could put Charlton Heston in the car?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Like with spinning blade attachments?

Yeah, the front caps don't apparently breach the rules and other teams didn't have a problem with them. Perhaps everyone likes the idea for reasons we don't know. They apparently (apart from cooling the brakes and removing the brake dust) effect the airflow under the car and are rumoured to aid down-force. I was wondering if perhaps they reduced turbulence behind the car - that would be a popular development for all teams and for the formula itself (as it may make overtaking easier for all cars).

They look like the should be on a 50's HotRod,fekking ugly things

Oh for the days of when F1 cars looked horny instead of horned..

Quote from mrbogeyman :

OK, I can steal £10000000.99 from the bank, but it's OK if I don't use it?

hmmmmm

I don't get the FIA's decision if they make statements like above.



If they were to say the above then their action would make sense, i.e. awaiting the verdict from the individual cases in the UK and Italy.

or how about someone somehow gave them £10000000.99 and they didn't used it~?

surely that person would've still be guilty of having that money, but surely it would also be very ok as long as they didn't use it, and give it back when the proper person demanded for it thru proper channel...

they've been caught redhanded

Quote from Gabkicks :

they've been caught redhanded

damn you beaten me to it

500 gigs would take a fair amount of time using the insanely slow MSN file sending thing.

BOOM! Thats what I'm talkin about! . Glad Mosley wised up and started being fair with Ferrari. You're going down Mclaren, GOIN DOWN!!!