1st rule of passing is its the passers responsibility to pass safely, not the passee.
The passee does not have to give way unless he/she feels the passer is a reet and is going to put the passee in danger; thus being aware of their surroundings.
Hopefully some of the drivers last night will see this and take notes.
I doubt they will. I think most people who post here on the CTRA forums are proper drivers and know general racing etiquette. The guys who reason that a passee should either get out of the way or be rammed/wrecked usually don't visit the forums
On CTRA the problem you seem to be referring to is rather non-existant, though. At least from what I've seen so far Most races are fairly clean overall, and T1 mayhem is amazingly low on almost all tracks on Race1
This is one of the many issues with online play. It will take some time for drivers to get a handle on this, some will never. I think part of the problem is people still look at computer games, as well, computer games. What I mean is that they don't take into consideration other people as much as they should. Games should still be treated as a game, but because of multiplayer you have to treat people with a bit more respect.
I think with the CTRA more people will grasp these racing rules but it will never go away, especally on the lower tiered servers. All of my racing training in these rules came from online computer gaming so it is possible, as well as watching racing. I didn't have the luxury of Becky and do karting or have the funding to play with single seaters like Tristan =)
The passee does have to give way if the passer can obtain significant overlap before the normal turn in point (usually during the braking zone) however the responsibility IMO shifts from the passer to both cars at some point during the pass, you cannot just turn into a car that is beside you for example, just because you are/were the passee.
Defending (not blocking) and passing is the hardest and best part of racing, but in order to make a sucessfull pass people have to remember that the passer will not be on the normal "racing line" and some trust has to be placed into the passee that he will see the passer, this is often not the case hence the "senna argument" that in order to make a good pass you must present yourself beside the car you are passing, and not just edge your bumper inside.
I still get some "you can't just push me off the racing line, I was in front" comments, because I have put my car fully alongside them and they have tried to turn into the apex as usual, only to bounce of my car. I guess some people are more aware of there surroundings than others?
The passee should never be put in danger or give way because they feel any danger, sounds like bullying, "let me pass or feel my danger"
I think that until there is a completely fair system in place to actually monitor this, then it will continue until the cows come home.
The number of times I have seen so-called 'experienced' drivers dive up the inside at a bend, forcing the passee to either take evasive action or get sideswiped is unreal.
I was watching some races last night, and people were barging through at corners with nothing like 'significant overlap' (correct me if I'm wrong, but if the 'passer' has his front wheels BEHIND the front wheels of the 'passee' at the turn in point, he does not have 'sgnificant overlap') ...more a case of, OUTTA MY WAY...I'm coming through whether you like it or not!'
As a direct result, the 'passee' has to ease off, lose his line, and therefore lose quite a few valuable seconds.
In future, if I suspect that somebody is doing this consistently during a session, then when I sit out a race for a smoke break, I will be watching them VERY closely, and the F2 key on my keyboard is working great...replays WILL be forwarded to Becky/Sam.
IMHO this action isn't just bad etiquette, it is tantamount to blatant wrecking; because if the guy being passed doesn't move out of the way, a crash is inevitable. Hopefully the CTRA Admins feel the same way and drastic action will be taken
I'm actually very pleased of the number of drivers who have learned the term 'significant overlap' since these servers first came around, and it's getting better all the time from my observations.
In the rules we define significant overlap as being the front of the car ahead of the rear edge of the front door - so you dont have to be fully alongside. In the single seaters we define signficant overlap as the front of the car being alongside the other drivers head.
Wreckless overtaking is something we address in submitted reports, although we also understand that any overtaking attempt can go wrong even with the best of intentions - so it's those who consistently cause accidents we're looking for.
One thing that is very easy to do is to give too much room to a car that doesnt have overlap, and a lot of drivers do that because they dont want to have an accident. This is unfortunately not the passers fault. Every situation is different of course, but I like to slam the door shut if I think it's safe enough to do so.
Meaning? =P There is a big difference in racing on the computer and RL, but the prinicples are still there. Will see next month if any of this pays off (heading to silverstone for the TRAX event) If my drag racing proves anything then it could be safe to say yes =) (ran 2.076 60' on street tires and a 13.8 with a good headwind(should have been a low 13.7 but ahwell) Most people are only getting a 14.0 out of the factory SRT-4.
I may be faster than them on the computer, but I would hope I would get my butt handed back to me on a silver plate by either of them on a real track.
Hehe
I just wanted to Second what Becky said too =) I am great for slamming the door shut on people =P They tend to get frustrated.
Well i doubt if racers will take note from this, but i like the effort
We shouldnt forget the way LFS is made. You just cant get the 2 mirrors on your screen properly. Well at least i cant get theme right without a weird view from the drivers seat.
I mean we all are nagging about racers who dont race by the rules of CTRA but is it really so ? I havent got a clou so i am wondering are there a lot of racers being permit banned after CTRAX went live ?.
I dont need to know the names (privacy) just a figure compared to the total racers who running the CTRA.
Significant overlap is where the "passee" can see you by looking out the side. Becky explains the positioning well.
In these situations in either the tin tops or the SS cars, the passing car can be seen easily by the passed car. Note, it does have to happen before turning in. Cars diving under is too late for "significant overlap" because then the front car being passed needs to take evasive action. Once both cars are commited to the cornering, it is too late.
The 2 situations that signify overlap is easing up beside a car down a long straight, or pulling up past the corner of the car in front, and out braking the other car to put yourself into significant overlap before actual turn-in point. That doesn't mean screaming through as the front car is just about to turn in, because that will result in that car turning in on you because he is now commited to the corner and you didn't present yourself, or you smashing through him because you couldn't brake successfully.
I'm one of those, I'm afraid. Not always but way too often. That's partly due to me still not being exactly aware of the width of my car. So it's lack of skill on my part. I'm aware that by doing this, I not only spoil my race-result but also the racing of others -- I mean, how much fun is it to pass someone who's not even trying to put up a fight?
The other reason however is, that many passers are not aware of the fact that they're usually not on the ideal racing line when passing. Thus they're too fast and as a result push the passee wide or loose control in the middle of the turn or when accelerating out of it. And in public pick-up racing you only seldomly know who's beside you and how that person races. Is she/he clean, fully in control of the car and does he/she know the track well enough to know whether it's safe to pass or not? That's a problem inherent to online (pick-up) racing, though, and nothing can be done about it. I just know that I'd rather finish a race one position lower than necessary than not finishing it all -- so, sorry for being an easy victim every now and then .
you either come across people who catch you gradually and meaning that the difference in speed is close you the person is less likely to make a dive as they are aware of the differences in speed, or you get the really fast guys who can catch you in a couple of corners.
In the first instance i like these guys because 9/10 you'll have close good races with them, the same for if you are catching them slowly
In the second instant, if a quick guy comes behind me in a few corners, what REALISTICALLY is the point of having an accident with them on potentially every corner until the time they eventually pass? Therefore i tend to let them pass or lets say if they dive in i'll make sure i don't slam the door - 'just in case'
this way of thinking i have much better and enjoyable races
HAd some real cracking races with people on the SS Race 1 server (FOX) recently they know who they are, we drive closely, fairly and cleanly - ok so we are a few seconds of the fastest guys but can have great races that are close and clean.
I think in many ways the fact that grids are formed know based on previous race times that you can have a race long battle with someone who started close on the grid with you (ala what we were doing those times in beta Becky )
This is one of the the best/major factors towards clean racing i think, also as a result there are less kamikaze dives on the first lap as well
That is exactly my point... I see too much of people diving down the inside WAY too late, leaving the guy who (rightfully) had the corner to take evasive action or crash. These are the people that need sorting out, they may be very fast hotlappers, but have no idea how to conduct themselves in a race.
You will probably find out that the majority of T1 pileups are caused by this mentality...then they blame everybody else for turning in on them!
Most races are fairly clean overall, and T1 mayhem is amazingly low on almost all tracks on Race1 
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