Quote :

the whole sound changes depending on how much throttle you have on

Aha- I think that must be where I've been blinded. I don't have analogue throttle controls (I use the keyboard). I guess I'll have to take your word for it then.

Try adjusting the button rate to minimum, then go to a straight, use a high gear at low speed, and slowly depress and release the throttle. There should be little change in rpm due to the high gear but you should clearly be able to hear the engine 'load up'.

Yeah Bob- you're right. Perfect demonstration, thanks! (and thanks bbman)

instead of this i think that when you change the sounds in shift+a you should be able to upload them in the same way as if you were uploading a skin, also with horns, as if for some daft reason you wanted the dixie horn () you could have it or you could make your horn "its my life" by bonjovi , maybe even if you really wanted to, make it so if you are listening to a song in ogg format through lfs, others could hear it as you go past

share-able enginesounds... that would be nice.


next step: handle engine-sounds like skins. (and every car sounds different)

Quote from Homeless_Drunk :

Using pre-sampled sounds would be a step backwards...

I don't understand why everyone likes pre-sampled sounds...they give no feedback to what the car is doing...

I use the sound to tell me when to shift, what speed I'm at (general). I couldn't imagine using any pre-sampled sounds.

Quote from gremwood :

I use the sound to tell me when to shift, what speed I'm at (general). I couldn't imagine using any pre-sampled sounds.

Im getting the impression that people in here believe that sampled sound is static by nature. Why is that?

whoo someone agrees with me!!!

Quote from Bodhidharmazen :

Im getting the impression that people in here believe that sampled sound is static by nature. Why is that?

No, of course it's not static. Sound can't be static, pictures are. But the sampled sound (in the current way it's done) is just not 100% what the engine in the game is doing.

But how about first replying to the posts (you got long reply from Gunn and me) before asking more questions?

I guess this is another area where if you just don't "get it" it's no use explaining.

It's the difference between listening to a cheesy drum beat on a keyboard (sampled sounds) or hearing all the intricacies of a well tuned mahogany set of drums. In the former, you hear a range of prerecorded sounds programmed to respond to your fingertips. Undynamic, lifeless, boring, and uninspiring. The latter is full of highlights, ghost notes, accents, insinuations and feeling. Whilst I don't claim LFS is those things in full glory YET, I have great optimism that eventually it will be. It's already an order of magnitude closer than sampled sounds could ever be, simply by definition. How about let's name another game that has impeller sound and air intake sound incorporated into the boost modelling and sound generation? Oh, right, there isn't one. (TDU Sort of does a half assed job at it actually).

An engine is an instrument of sorts, with valves and acoustic oscillations and chambers... The adjustment of just the valve tied to your right foot has plenty of impact on the cacophony (or euphony depending on your point of view I suppose) generated by the engine.

Sampled sound can give you a narrow, limited taste of that but only under very specific circumstances.

Heh, nice post BBT

Sorry to burst your bubble. But no. Let me quote an intelligent dude:

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I guess this is another area where if you just don't "get it" it's no use explaining.

http://www.garritan.com/mp3/GOS_DEMO-128k.MP3

Listen to that so you "get it"... and then we talk.

Nice samples.

I actually feel there's no real point comparing samples/synth because both ways can always be improved. I liked BBT's post because it was passionately written, he's always championed the synth route- I loved his description of the engine as an instrument, and there are nice fruits starting to be born from doing the engine sounds in this way. It's a unique approach, and these kinds of innovations should always be applauded. Keep in mind though that the synth engine we have now is already using samples, being altered in real-time under various parameters. Samples/synth... These things aren't exclusionary imo. I'm thinking your real problem is with the sounds in LFS as they exist now, not the method by which they are being produced. We're going to have to deal with it until the sound engine evolves again. And trust me, you'll get used to the sounds. They actually do a very good job already.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Samples/synth... These things aren't exclusionary imo. I'm thinking your real problem is with the sounds in LFS as they exist now, not the method by which they are being produced. We're going to have to deal with it until the sound engine evolves again. And trust me, you'll get used to the sounds. They actually do a very good job already.

My feeling exactly, both can do wonders together. I was not aware of the sampling in LFS sounds. All I can say is that, in my own test, driving the F1 BMW in LFS is a painful experience after driving it in rFactor. The sounds are simplistic and, frankly, even lame in comparison.

Other cars do sound better, but still, far away from what I would expect. Maybe its just me.

The big problem in sound is that not has harmonics, has very few stereo sound, and no efects (like a little reverb to emulate the cockpit).

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Keep in mind though that the synth engine we have now is already using samples, being altered in real-time under various parameters.

Great, now you just confused Bodhidharmazen

The sound sampels/files in LFS are less than 0.1 secs long. If you export the sound file from the game all you hear is "click". See the attachment, it's from XFR (I remember DaveWS used the same file for most of the cars). For example in GTR2 the samples are from 2-3 seconds up to 5 seconds. To make it simpler, I think it is justified to talk about not using samples because the source samples LFS is using, are not really that kind samples that most people understands with the sample word.

Yeah, sorry about that. But it's true. Thanks Deggis for pointing that out. LFS doesn't use large 'chunks' of sound to create the impression of an engine- crossfading samples, changing pitch and increasing or decreasing volume, ie the standard route. It uses very small samples which are constantly being updated on the fly and which pass through a multitude of tweakable modifiers. Press shift-A (if you haven't tried it yet) and check out the sound engine menu for yourself. You might be able to customise some sounds to your liking- if nothing else you'll get to see the potential of the engine as it exists now. Its also quite a lot of fun

its still using sample though which causes the sound to be more harmonic and static than it should be
filtered noise should yield a much more appropriately raw sounding engine note

So you're speaking about changing the firing sample itself dynamically basically right?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

So you're speaking about changing the firing sample itself dynamically basically right?

Bingo, realistic sound! not like a Casio "piano" from the 70s (purely synthetic sound)