Here is the Point system i think we will go with, please give your feedback.
Example
The bonus points will be out of all 96 drivers
Example
The bonus points will be out of all 96 drivers
Point System Discussion
Points ok, but i would like to purpose something: an extra point (1 point) for each time a racer complete 5 or 10 laps on the lead.
#4
- DANDAMAN05
hmm i see why you say that... i guess it gives more incentive to get to the front, therefore closer racing.
(speedway)
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by speedway
Something like top 5 or even 10 should share the amount of points gained with bottom 5-10 @ the higher grid, so that there is an overlap in the points system - I'm pretty sure the top field would be doing much better than bottom 5-10 @ higher grid - so it would IMO be more fair and motivating.
The current system is handicapping ppl too much only because of quali times (from where ppl will be sorted) - you can have "poor" quali, but be consistent at racing, while another driver could have "good" quali time, but do worse during the race.
The current system is handicapping ppl too much only because of quali times (from where ppl will be sorted) - you can have "poor" quali, but be consistent at racing, while another driver could have "good" quali time, but do worse during the race.
(speedway)
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by speedway
good point system 
+1
+1
The purposed system would allow a good hot lapper, but a shitty racer to always be ahead of lower grid no matter how bad that person performs during the race.
Thats not fair.
Thats not fair.
Only thing i dont think is right is Svr1 last and Svr2 first getting the same points, it should be +2 for every place, no bonuses.
Im not a big fan of Bonus points unless they're fairly insignificant (as they are in the suggested scoring) so i have no arguements with that, however i still dont like the idea of the winner getting an extra 2 pts (+4) over 2nd, every position should be worth the same amount, why should there be an extra incentive for the win? Its a position just like every other IMO and if your not willing to challenge for an extra position and the resulting points then theres something not quite right there, and i hardly imagine an extra 2pts is going to be the dealbreaker that the cautious people say f*ck it im going for that extra 2pts!!!
Also, it might be an unpopular comment, im not entirely fond of the idea, but non-finishers, do they get 0pts? Cos really one non-finish thats totally out of your hands and you've got one hell of a problem clawing yourself back to more suitable surroundings. Whatever your teams 'level' scoring zero instead of the more likely amount is going to be an increadably heavy punishment for something out of your hands, and whether your fighting for top 5, mid-table or not last, to effectively lose half a race worth of points (2 drivers, 1 disco = half) is going to have a huge impact.
I dont think people who cant be arsed finishing a race deserve to ever take part in another round, let alone not score points, so i can appreciate there should be a reason not to say f*ck it and leave the server instead of completeing the race, however at the same time the punishment for losing connection is quite heavy.
Maybe they could receive half the points for last in that server, ie 65/33/1 so while you still lose out a lot, it isnt as heavy a penalty as it would be, and the people who decide to leave of their own doing also get significantly less points than they would if they carried on with the race.
Im only thinking in terms of what would happen if a driver did unfortunately disconnect and the best interest of close racing both in the servers and in the standings.
Im not a big fan of Bonus points unless they're fairly insignificant (as they are in the suggested scoring) so i have no arguements with that, however i still dont like the idea of the winner getting an extra 2 pts (+4) over 2nd, every position should be worth the same amount, why should there be an extra incentive for the win? Its a position just like every other IMO and if your not willing to challenge for an extra position and the resulting points then theres something not quite right there, and i hardly imagine an extra 2pts is going to be the dealbreaker that the cautious people say f*ck it im going for that extra 2pts!!!
Also, it might be an unpopular comment, im not entirely fond of the idea, but non-finishers, do they get 0pts? Cos really one non-finish thats totally out of your hands and you've got one hell of a problem clawing yourself back to more suitable surroundings. Whatever your teams 'level' scoring zero instead of the more likely amount is going to be an increadably heavy punishment for something out of your hands, and whether your fighting for top 5, mid-table or not last, to effectively lose half a race worth of points (2 drivers, 1 disco = half) is going to have a huge impact.
I dont think people who cant be arsed finishing a race deserve to ever take part in another round, let alone not score points, so i can appreciate there should be a reason not to say f*ck it and leave the server instead of completeing the race, however at the same time the punishment for losing connection is quite heavy.
Maybe they could receive half the points for last in that server, ie 65/33/1 so while you still lose out a lot, it isnt as heavy a penalty as it would be, and the people who decide to leave of their own doing also get significantly less points than they would if they carried on with the race.
Im only thinking in terms of what would happen if a driver did unfortunately disconnect and the best interest of close racing both in the servers and in the standings.
Bonus points for fastest laps & pole position. Does this mean in every server? or just the fastest of sv1? i.e. the fastest of everyone
@Paul's Post
That is a good idea but then we could have people at any stage of the race. pull out there network cable "lost connection" and score easy points.
very good question, should of wrote that in the my post.
The bonus points will be out of all 96 drivers
That is a good idea but then we could have people at any stage of the race. pull out there network cable "lost connection" and score easy points.
very good question, should of wrote that in the my post.
The bonus points will be out of all 96 drivers
But if the worst you could score was 130pts for coming last, and anyone disconnecting or leaving of their own accord scored half that (65pts) why would you??
You wouldnt need to yank the network cable to fake disconnection, you'd get half points whatever the problem. Thing is, if you can score twice as many points just by carrying on and finishing the race, not only would get get double the disconnection points but you may make a few more if anyone else is unfortunate enough to lose connection.
If you genuinely lose connection you dont get zero, you get half the worse possible score.
So the unlucky people as well as the quitters would neither get zero or the points they could get if they finished, however they would get something which is more than they'd currently get.
I just think it'll take one disconnection from one of the top teams and they'll instantly be out of the series and probably have a slim chance of being top 5 let alone being #1 and most likely because of a disconnection rather than someone deciding to quit the race.
Personally i feel giving out half the worst points that could be scored from that server is going to be minor enough that its not unfair on people in lower divisions who could have been in the next server up scoring more points, its minor enough that it doesnt kill a teams chances of finishing in an accurate position to their performance and yet its significant enough to be a good reason not to volunterily leave midway through the race because 130pts for your teams cause is far better than 65, likewise for 66/33 though in the 3rd server its pretty insignificant (2/1), but if your a 3rd server team then every point will count because those are the margins your dealing with.
It punishes quiters harshly, but for the unfortunate disconnections it doesnt kick them firmly in the knackers like a 0 does.
You wouldnt need to yank the network cable to fake disconnection, you'd get half points whatever the problem. Thing is, if you can score twice as many points just by carrying on and finishing the race, not only would get get double the disconnection points but you may make a few more if anyone else is unfortunate enough to lose connection.
If you genuinely lose connection you dont get zero, you get half the worse possible score.
So the unlucky people as well as the quitters would neither get zero or the points they could get if they finished, however they would get something which is more than they'd currently get.
I just think it'll take one disconnection from one of the top teams and they'll instantly be out of the series and probably have a slim chance of being top 5 let alone being #1 and most likely because of a disconnection rather than someone deciding to quit the race.
Personally i feel giving out half the worst points that could be scored from that server is going to be minor enough that its not unfair on people in lower divisions who could have been in the next server up scoring more points, its minor enough that it doesnt kill a teams chances of finishing in an accurate position to their performance and yet its significant enough to be a good reason not to volunterily leave midway through the race because 130pts for your teams cause is far better than 65, likewise for 66/33 though in the 3rd server its pretty insignificant (2/1), but if your a 3rd server team then every point will count because those are the margins your dealing with.
It punishes quiters harshly, but for the unfortunate disconnections it doesnt kick them firmly in the knackers like a 0 does.
I can't help but bringing this "issue" up again after having studied the stats. I would like the organizers to seriously re-consider to either redo the current scores from a new and more fair set of point table (it's not too late), or make a new one till next race.
Some facts from round 1:
Pool #2, [RTS] Clement finishes faster than 24 drivers from pool #1 (including 2 DNF drivers) - this would technically speaking put him @ 9th in pool #1.
Pool #3, TPC M.Karlsson finishes faster than 15 drivers on pool #2 - this would technically speaking put him @ 15th in pool #2.
This is only first race, but 3 servers to do the maths with - the overlap is too big to be a coincidence of what I was talking about, so please reconsider to do a far better and more fair point table - something like the 5-10 driver overlap that I suggested earlier.
Also, Does the points to be gained remain the same if the upper pool doesn't have a full grid? IMO any gap should be removed and even DNF should be counted in as a gap.
Like I said before, the qualify session is handicapping drivers/teams too much.
Some facts from round 1:
Pool #2, [RTS] Clement finishes faster than 24 drivers from pool #1 (including 2 DNF drivers) - this would technically speaking put him @ 9th in pool #1.
Pool #3, TPC M.Karlsson finishes faster than 15 drivers on pool #2 - this would technically speaking put him @ 15th in pool #2.
This is only first race, but 3 servers to do the maths with - the overlap is too big to be a coincidence of what I was talking about, so please reconsider to do a far better and more fair point table - something like the 5-10 driver overlap that I suggested earlier.
Also, Does the points to be gained remain the same if the upper pool doesn't have a full grid? IMO any gap should be removed and even DNF should be counted in as a gap.
Like I said before, the qualify session is handicapping drivers/teams too much.
The last of one server gets the same amount of points as the first of the other one, thats odd 
Why not giving for example the best cars of server 2 more points then the last of server one? To win on server 2 or 3 is a lot of work I would say but mostly the last on a server took more easy......maybe......just a thought
Why not giving for example the best cars of server 2 more points then the last of server one? To win on server 2 or 3 is a lot of work I would say but mostly the last on a server took more easy......maybe......just a thought
How about, say, a 16-car overlap in terms of points? i.e., 1st on server 2 gets the same points as the 17th place car on server 1 and 1st on server 3 gets the same as 17th on server 2?
Given the close and competitive times run throughout the field, this would somewhat make up for the lack of aptitude some guys have for hotlapping, but still put a premium on qualifying well.
Given the close and competitive times run throughout the field, this would somewhat make up for the lack of aptitude some guys have for hotlapping, but still put a premium on qualifying well.
(speedway)
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by speedway
I didn't forget that. Thats why I added "technically" - but still 24 "technical" places is allot.
An overlap of 5-10 drivers would still be fair.
Edit: Oh and btw.. Leading the race doesn't necessarily mean you have the track for yourself (everything being fine) - it only takes a single car being up your.. uhm.. bum.. before you typically start losing time/building pressure/risk incidents etc.
And also coincidently, rcpilot finished 0:00.35secs behind [RTS] Clement - haven't watched the replay - only looked at the stats - I can see rcpilot gained "only" 2 positions - so I'm assuming hes been pushing Clement for quiet some time.
Ps. I'm not using the stats to say points should be like this and that - I'm using them as an example to make a point - couldn't do that last time which was why I stopped arguing.
An overlap of 5-10 drivers would still be fair.
Edit: Oh and btw.. Leading the race doesn't necessarily mean you have the track for yourself (everything being fine) - it only takes a single car being up your.. uhm.. bum.. before you typically start losing time/building pressure/risk incidents etc.
And also coincidently, rcpilot finished 0:00.35secs behind [RTS] Clement - haven't watched the replay - only looked at the stats - I can see rcpilot gained "only" 2 positions - so I'm assuming hes been pushing Clement for quiet some time.
Ps. I'm not using the stats to say points should be like this and that - I'm using them as an example to make a point - couldn't do that last time which was why I stopped arguing.
Within a few seconds the entire race with pretty much exactly matched paces, just accordioning based on small mistakes, hard to pressure a major mistake in an xrg. :P
I agree with raptor here, I had a bad qualy, kept hitting traffic. Fought like a bugger to get 2nd on server 3. Was faster than positions 20-32 on server above, but got less points. So basically the system as it stands is based almost purely on qualy. 20 mins with 32 other racers is quite hard IMO to get a clean lap. Alot to do with luck.
What I am saying is the guy who came last on the server above was obviously (looking at the stats), way below me & 1st position in racing, but scored more points just because of 0.01 (or something like that in qualy). This in my opinion is not fair. So I race well for 50 laps to get beaten on points by a guy who beat me by 0.01 (or something) in qualy, and who raced 50 rubbish laps in the race but had a better qualy.
I can see this is simply because of the current points system.
IMHO wouldn't it be fairer to have the points based on overall race time? This seems totally fair to me...
What I am saying is the guy who came last on the server above was obviously (looking at the stats), way below me & 1st position in racing, but scored more points just because of 0.01 (or something like that in qualy). This in my opinion is not fair. So I race well for 50 laps to get beaten on points by a guy who beat me by 0.01 (or something) in qualy, and who raced 50 rubbish laps in the race but had a better qualy.
I can see this is simply because of the current points system.
IMHO wouldn't it be fairer to have the points based on overall race time? This seems totally fair to me...
Have i understand the pointsystem correct if i say:
I will get 66 points to drive 80 minutes and finally take the win on server 3
, and i will get 66 points to drive to the last corner on the first lap and then get of the track for some coffee and peanuts on server 2, and wait for the leader to finish. Then turn the keys on and cruise to finish. :P
(i know im putting it too far, but you see my point right?)
I dont have a solusion on this, its hard/impossible to make it fair, but maybe its possible to go a step closer to a "fair" system.
And total time is not fair either, its different races on the servers and cant be compared with overall time.
I will get 66 points to drive 80 minutes and finally take the win on server 3
, and i will get 66 points to drive to the last corner on the first lap and then get of the track for some coffee and peanuts on server 2, and wait for the leader to finish. Then turn the keys on and cruise to finish. :P(i know im putting it too far, but you see my point right?)
I dont have a solusion on this, its hard/impossible to make it fair, but maybe its possible to go a step closer to a "fair" system.
And total time is not fair either, its different races on the servers and cant be compared with overall time.
Yes, as the system stands, I believe you can just do 1 lap on server 2 and get 66 points, and 50 laps on server 3 and still get 66 points (if you come 1st, which you did). Not fair at all IMO.
Edit: Am I right also in thinking that a DNF on server 2 still gets at least 66 points? If so, thats really bad.
And to those who say you should get half points for a DNF, what?????????
So do you know of any RL (or indeed sim) race that you score for crashing?
Edit: Am I right also in thinking that a DNF on server 2 still gets at least 66 points? If so, thats really bad.
And to those who say you should get half points for a DNF, what?????????
So do you know of any RL (or indeed sim) race that you score for crashing?
IMO you should stop posting.
(speedway)
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by speedway
Well I agree with all of those points speedway. But I still think the points system needs adjusting..
+ 1 concerning total race time, comparisons between different pool is definitely ridiculous (sorry for being little bit aggressive in my first post, but look at replay and see the kind of battle we had in pool a, you'll understand what i mean :shrug
Besides qualifications are part of racing, a decent driver is supposed to be able to make a correct lap in 20 minutes, it's not a matter of luck, just training and concentration to make a good lap... May be we can add 10 minutes, but i'm not sure it would change anything.
Anyway, just wanted to add that we had a really great race yesterday, drivers were clean, fast and very close
Imo, it proves that current system is nice
Agree with Edgar and speedway. You can't really compare the races going on in the different pools, as they have their own developments. Expanding the qualifying to 4 servers so drivers have a little more space is a good idea imo.
I thought the size of server last night was perfect and allowed for closer racing rather than a more spread field!
(speedway)
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by speedway
They were talking about qualifying where you probably dont really want close racing.
Oh, not only beaten on track, but also in the forums.
Point System Discussion
(68 posts, started )
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