Quote from MAE_2007 :

remove chicanes? are you .... ? ne-ver !! Its part for drifting and thats it, done.

Really?,

+1, remove all chicanes

Thanks for all the comments on what was a fairly knee jerk post whilst thinking of racing while I had to work.
To most of the -1 people, you have taken your desire to post rants beyond actually thinking, or being provoked to think, more deeply about what I suggest.

The title of course is completely over the top and blantant. But it's gets peoples attention yes?
It's absolutely typical of people to say go NFS, or go Oval, or drag and stuff. And I ignore most of these comments really.

The CoRe guys speak most closely about what I was thinking about it. The chicanes are not functioning as they should given the in game performance and simulation. On almost all the tracks, with just a couple exceptions, the chicanes are worthless.

And Nighthawk, don't correct yourself, you were right on your first post.
Note, saying remove a chicane, does not equal make it a straight. Think outside the box man. More turns = better, yes. A chicane is not a turn. It is an interruption of a turn or section.

Quote from wiki :

A chicane (originally meaning subterfuge) is a sequence of tight serpentine curves (usually an S-shape curve or a bus stop) in a roadway, used in motor racing and on city streets to slow cars. On modern raceways, chicanes are usually located after long straightaways, making them a prime location for overtaking.

Now, this wiki-def is by no means some bible law, but it does apply generally to the topic. The last part as well I think is incorrect. ANY braking zone is an overtaking area.
The placement of a chicane at the end of a long straight does not promote overtaking any more then a 90deg turn at the end of that straight. What the chicane does do however, is restrict that short section to one racing line only.

I dunno. I like the chicanes. What I don't like is other people in them when I'm in one. Most of the time I run across people that are either way too slow or way too fast going thru them. but when you go thru that one on ashton in a pack of three (2 and a half wide?) and not wreck, it's a total rush.
Fern Green just wouldn't be fern green without its chicanes. I think that the chicane at Kyoto long should be more punishing for people that just fly over the "drunk bumps" or whatever they're called.
There's been some posts, dead wolf bones comes to mind, that suggest widening them to avoid the single file effect that they have.
If that was done, wouldn't people just readjust their racing line to compensate for the change and still go thru them single file? and would it still be considered a chicane if that was done?

Well, sometimes widening means to increase the length between the 2 turns of the chicane. So that boths turns of the chicane actually function as turns instead of speed bumps.

Quote from Racer Y :

Fern Green just wouldn't be fern green without its chicanes. I think that the chicane at Kyoto long should be more punishing for people that just fly over the "drunk bumps" or whatever they're called.
There's been some posts, dead wolf bones comes to mind, that suggest widening them to avoid the single file effect that they have.
If that was done, wouldn't people just readjust their racing line to compensate for the change and still go thru them single file? and would it still be considered a chicane if that was done?

IMO, the chicane on/off the oval at KY3/R needs to be either 1) made into a hard 90deg+ corner that requires serious braking, or 2) straightened out and made into a (tight) sweeper that (in the Rev config) switches very quickly into a (tight) right-hand sweeper. It would make for a much more exciting section either way.

I don't suggest "widening" any current chicanes. I don't want them to be replaced with straightaways. I want them to be replaced with more difficult corners that produce hard braking and actual passing opportunities.

If there were more chicanes in LFS that resembled the BL1R chicane, I'd be quite pleased, as that one actually requires serious braking and can shuffle things up quite a bit on both entry and exit. Unfortunately, the majority right now are like the one at WE1 or the FE Green/FE Gold chicane, where it's just a single-file funnel with a high probability of tire-based chaos.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

So, according to what I just read here, and assuming the chicanes are largely flat out (which is verifiably true)... the chicanes force racing to cease so that you can go single file through an unnecessary, flat-out constriction in the track. That doesn't sound so good to me. No one in this thread who supports the OP wants the tracks made easier--they want more challenging corners that provide good racing. The majority of the chicanes in LFS don't right now.

You frankly seem to be bringing quite a bit of unrelated frustrations into this argument and it's making your own words not make a whole lot of sense.

"Go play NFS" is about the most played out dismissal you can use around here. I kind of expected more from you, Gimp.

Wow I really typed that... Dam I was really tired and in a bad mood that night. Opps...

Let me se if I can rephrase this in a more constructive way.

Chicanes are challangening corners, and the inclusion of then in racing circuits is for several reasons, one is to lower speeds before dangerous corners or sections of track, like near pit enterances and exits, or before a sharp corner at the end of a high sped section where there is no room for run of, like at Spa. In LFS there are few true chicanes, most are just jinks in the track designed to force single file flow as DWB pointed out and these are indead poor in their design and I woudl also not mind seeing them go away or redisigned so that they are true chicanes.

I see there being two types of chicanes, one is the jink which describes most of them in LFS. These are best described as a track offset or lane change type of path, they often have only two apexes and there is a straight line through them. The issue in LFS is that they should either be more offset and thus force a real slow down or less offset so that they can still be taken two wide without too much issue. The few good examples of the right way to do these in LFS are Kyoto GP's first corner and the second to last corner.

The other type of chicane in my opinion is a 3 apex corner, these require a reduction of speed, will not have a straight path through them and will take care to drive through two wide. This is what you see at Sps, before at the pit entrance and at Portland international when the optional chicane is employed. There are few of these in LFS. Westhill has a fast one down at the bottom of the hill after the sweepers which also has and elevation change included. The last turn of AS Historic/National is also of this type. These are nice.

The "Chicane" jinks on the Fernbay tracks are just BAD and ill placed. The blackwood one is challanging. The others are OK but might do with some looking at.

The heart of this issue is not so much the design of the tracks but the mindset of the drivers in your average LFS pickup race. Most just don't have the maturity or patience to back off when entering these corners, Nore do they leave much room for error in their driving. It may just be a simulation with little to no concequences for mistakes and bad decisions but causing an incident because of a bad decision does affect other people in a negitive way and we all know how tempers can flair when we feel we have been wronged. We are all guilty of this from time to time and I am no exception to this.


DWB thanks for calling me out for the piss poor post, I deserved it for sure. Thanks Mate.

I agree with the OP - chicanes suck...
I think LFS would be 100% better if all the chicanes were removed. Then the devs could make a new track by stitching all the amputated chicane parts together into one big ol' chicane track - call it 'cutters gulch'... then all you chicane lovers can go there and leave us true racers in peace.

---------~~◄Ξ►3 >º ><

Quote from Gimpster :

DWB thanks for calling me out for the piss poor post, I deserved it for sure. Thanks Mate.

No problem, man. I need to be called out myself on a pretty regular basis.

Seems like our arguments are pretty similar after all.

It's not the chicanes that are the problem, they are just chicanes, you get big ones, small ones, slow ones fast ones, all sorts, they are specific features of the tracks. try looking at the damage model aero model and surface grip or the curbs or the other million suggested improvements like dirt or rubber on the track that are the inaccuracies of a racing sim. how about the dirt on the tyre model is this 100% acurate? or the marbles the wear and tear on the car the countless other reasons why drivers in real life have to slow and we dont. thats all it is. this doesnt mean we cant replicate them as best we can for now and hope as upgrades go on the need to take care will increase.

Quote from Cargo :

On almost all the tracks, with just a couple exceptions, the chicanes are worthless.

I think that this statement is ridiculous. What sim have you been playing? Not LFS surely.

Quote from Gunn :

I think that this statement is ridiculous. What sim have you been playing? Not LFS surely.

Anyway this discussion is ridiculous. Remove all the curves and we get a nascar race wich is kind stupid.

Quote from Cargo :

Before I make an Improvement Suggestion I thought I'd drag by the General mob.

Chicanes -- what are they good for?

Most real life tracks install or build-in chicanes in order to slow the cars down for safety.
We are virtual, there is zero safety to worry about. We should be going hella fast (and usually are).

There are several chicanes that are simple "cut here" markers. And servers have taken as many steps as possible to put in bumpers to stave people off from them. Is this is so, Remove the Chicane.

In general, if any Track is being reviewed for udpates from the devs, they should first look at any chicanes on that track and do all possible to remove them.

This is Live For Speed after all.

(just a thought, not a whine)

-5

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

IMO, the chicane on/off the oval at KY3/R needs to be either 1) made into a hard 90deg+ corner that requires serious braking, or 2) straightened out and made into a (tight) sweeper that (in the Rev config) switches very quickly into a (tight) right-hand sweeper. It would make for a much more exciting section either way.

I'd change it like this:

Quote from Cargo :

No, more turns the better, but there are some chicanes that are really not turns.
But whatever.

-1's ouch.

"Please allow me to die a gracefull uneventfull and unnoticed death" - This Topic

Hahahahahah !!! Good sense of humor. See what you got into?

Anyway, for the other guys here, I think I saw software somewhere for designing tracks for LFS. Perhaps someone here could design a whole set of tracks without chicanes and start a "chicane-less" league. Then get everyone's opinion all over again and see.

Just a thought.

Check out this video. Looks like they are having fun.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I4CXVDTrfrc&NR=1

Quote from Yaamboo :

I'd change it like this:

Would be still possible to be very flatout chicane... if it was totally "Z" type chicane then it would be great.

Haha removing chicanes that guys is crazyillepall
Hes just one of those people who only drive straight lines

Quote from Chrisuu01 :

Haha removing chicanes that guys is crazyillepall
Hes just one of those people who only drive straight lines

You should read the topic before replying...

Quote from The General Lee :

Absolutely nothing, huh.

-1 btw...

Lol

This is just a complaint from someone who can't take the chicanes well, if I read in between the lines correctly =/

Just practice and you can go plenty fast.

Quote from Cr!t!calDrift :

Lol

This is just a complaint from someone who can't take the chicanes well, if I read in between the lines correctly =/

Just practice and you can go plenty fast.

You don't read between the lines very well.

It's not that he's slow through the chicanes, his complaint is that the chicanes are taken flat out and hence useless.

Get to work on them critical reading skillz.

Sorry my bad yeah chicanes are al flatout even the Fern BAy one
I would like non flatout chicanes

Sometimes I cant understand the community. I'm not saying I endorse or criticize the suggestion made but:

An oval? What the hell? He said removing chicanes, not turns! Just because he is from the US you think he wants NASCAR or something?

Brands Hatch, Dijon Prenois, Donnington Park, Hockenheim, Imola, Interlagos, Jarama, Kyalami, Spa, Laguna Seca, Lemans... do I have to continue?

There was a time when those tracks didn't have a single chicane, an I think there were pretty close races there, and I think some of those tracks were totally spoiled by adding stupid chicanes.

Some chicanes are fun, in fact I like them, but they are not the only kind of slow turns, and you can create a skillful track without adding a single chicane. Westhill for example is a great track, a very fast track with only one wide chicane, is it an oval? I think no.

Jesus, I'm surprised that someone didn't suggest him to go and play NFS or something.

Quote from Eldanor :

Jesus, I'm surprised that someone didn't suggest him to go and play NFS or something.

Quote from Gimpster :

Ok, sorry for ranting but if you want easy go play NFS.

This got off to a rocky start obviously, but I do think the discussion has merit. I'd be fine with a chicane that creates passing opportunity, but most of the chicanes in LFS don't.

I'd love to see more "Chicanes" like the first complex at KY GP Long, or the corkscrew at Aston, but I don't even really consider those chicanes. Those are more just real corners.

I of a true chicane as the ones like on the Mulsanne straight at the Sarthe circuit at Le Mans, or the ones they put in on the front straight at Monza, those add no excitement, just slow things down.

I'm not a big fan of some of the chicanes in LFS, particularly some at Fern Bay, there are a couple there that are just strange, but I wouldn't want to take them out really, since they're the character of the track. I wouldn't mind taking out the one I spoke of earlier, on FE Green coming up away from the beach, the chicane around the tree, that one is just strange.

I'd love to see some more complicated corner sections in future tracks, something like the final corners at Silverstone comes to mind, but with more elevation change and off camber parts.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

:uglyhamme

I knew it had to be there LOL.

I'm sure we are in the top 10 fanboy communities out there.