I did decided to test annoying wing car that I never drive as I saw someone liking it a lot when driving one with motion simulator.

Can't really tell why, but it slides quite often if I touch loud pedal, it is like it would have minor acceleration and then insane slide acceleration, but hardly nothing between those two.

Also I found it incredible easy to catch in most situations (using 550 degrees with dfp).

Should it be like that or should set be adjust so that it does not do such things?

When i'm coming out of a corner, especially tight ones, I ususally start getting on the power really early. Make the car slide a tiny bit so I can find the throttle biting point, then use that point until i'm confident I can start applying more power on the exit.

If you take the LFS Replay Analyser and run an FO8 WR through it and add your own lap too, you'll find the acceleration probably a lot earlier, but smoother.

WR laps are worthless, often I see them driving quite odd manner with really weird setups, would not work well IRL, imo.

I have found out that if I keep throttle at same level and even I steer less after apex it likes to slide after apex too, so I have tried to accelerate and drive so that I don't need to turn too much, but well, replay shows that I have not managed very well in that

Quote from JTbo :

WR laps are worthless, often I see them driving quite odd manner with really weird setups, would not work well IRL, imo.

I have found out that if I keep throttle at same level and even I steer less after apex it likes to slide after apex too, so I have tried to accelerate and drive so that I don't need to turn too much, but well, replay shows that I have not managed very well in that

Hehe, I drive the single seaters VERY hard. I push the car to the limit constantly, so I guess my style may not suit you.

I guess the only thing I can suggest is practice! Are you in GFC?

Quote from mcintyrej :

Hehe, I drive the single seaters VERY hard. I push the car to the limit constantly, so I guess my style may not suit you.

I guess the only thing I can suggest is practice! Are you in GFC?

GFC = Girlfriend challenge? (sorry, I really have no idea what that is)

I don't like that car understeers more when it has more speed in corner, it is like driving FWD so I guess that is why I have not driven them almost at all. I just decided to test it a bit and it was not too bad, imo. Not like some I remembered, could touch throttle only at straight line.

I'm only 6 second behind WR with race_s su that I changed very little, I doubt that I ever will get within 2 seconds of WR because I prefer to drive them as I would IRL, sometimes rather difficult
Also I don't have too much time, only hour or two in month or something like that, but have to try enjoy from what I can

GFC = Gentlefoot Formula Challenge

i think

Quote from JTbo :

WR laps are worthless, often I see them driving quite odd manner with really weird setups, would not work well IRL, imo.

Didn't you get the memo? you're supposed to drive in an odd manner with a really weird setup! no wonder you don't have any WRs!

Oh, the irony...

The thing that might help you the most setup-wise is to reduce the power side differential setting a bunch. At some point you should get inside rear wheel spin when leaving a corner, acting like a safety valve. It's not good for acceleration of course, but will help keep the tail in line. Then start adding in more power side diff a bit at a time until you both like the handling and are still reasonably quick.

If I'm nervous and can't predict what will happen with the throttle at any given time, I won't be quick, so I often make the car easier to drive and my lap times improve.

Quote from JTbo :

I don't like that car understeers more when it has more speed in corner,

Well remove some rear wing then

Quote from jtw62074 :

The thing that might help you the most setup-wise is to reduce the power side differential setting a bunch. At some point you should get inside rear wheel spin when leaving a corner, acting like a safety valve. It's not good for acceleration of course, but will help keep the tail in line. Then start adding in more power side diff a bit at a time until you both like the handling and are still reasonably quick.

If I'm nervous and can't predict what will happen with the throttle at any given time, I won't be quick, so I often make the car easier to drive and my lap times improve.

Yes, with clutch pack I was lot more sideways, driving was sideways-stop-sideways-stop. Then I put trusty old Visco diff in and it is lot better, I'm going sideways only part of time

@wark, I have stopped racing from victory or from WR very long time ago, I let those to nolifes or those that just are quick, however I doubt that amount of practise I can get there is no way to get really quick times, besides I have a job already, I drive to have some fun instead


@ajp, I did already remove bit of wings, but it seem to just add more of problem as can't get that much downforce so would need to go slower to corners, adding more helps but car is not performing too well then anymore.

I really think that problem must be somehow in throttle, sure braking and lines are real mess, but I'm trying to get acceleration under control first, however that is so sensitive where I would need most of control, or so it feels.

I can drive with XRR wings set to 0 quite well with throttle, but in FO8 it is always bit too much or bit too little.

Quote :

Also I found it incredible easy to catch in most situations (using 550 degrees with dfp).

I think the problems you describe lie largely in LFS's tyre physics - they're just too forgiving. And I don't think it's limited to just the FO8 (which I love BTW ) - I really don't think such lairy powerslides are possible in anything with racing slicks

Quote from Goop :

I think the problems you describe lie largely in LFS's tyre physics - they're just too forgiving. And I don't think it's limited to just the FO8 (which I love BTW ) - I really don't think such lairy powerslides are possible in anything with racing slicks

Can't really say much for that, haven't driven such powerful open wheeler IRL so hard to say anything.
I know that at least some slicks are much easier to slide with than street tires as they stick lot better when sliding, also change direction more predictable way, but sliding a lot over heats them quick and then they loose lot of grip, cooling down does not help either, set is ruined.

Quote from JTbo :

Can't really say much for that, haven't driven such powerful open wheeler IRL so hard to say anything.

You haven't!? You really should get out more, then

I base my comment on open-wheeler video-footage. If such slip-angles were controllable - or even possible - I'd imagine we'd see a bit more of it, tyre-temps be damned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv9DT7UXXt8

Quote from Goop :

You haven't!? You really should get out more, then

I base my comment on open-wheeler video-footage. If such slip-angles were controllable - or even possible - I'd imagine we'd see a bit more of it, tyre-temps be damned.

Judging from video is like brushing teeths from arse, there is too much other things involved that can be a reason for such that you really can't judge from some race footage how tires should work or not.

I tested also open wheeler in competitor's product, it has less power at least, don't know what else is different, also can't say if it is more or less real, it spins easier but also slides less easy, maybe because lack of power.

@FredFlintstone

That video is pretty much a one-off from over twenty years ago. I'd hazard a guess and suggest that tyre technology has advanced somewhat since then.

The FO8 is based on a modern open-wheeler, with modern tyres, and you can do that on pretty much every corner. Fun, yep, forgiving and good for online racing, most definitely. Realistic.... I have my doubts.....

Quote from JTbo :

Judging from video is like brushing teeths from arse, there is too much other things involved that can be a reason for such that you really can't judge from some race footage how tires should work or not.

I disagree I can see quite clearly when a car is in a lairy sideways drift in a video.

Quote from Goop :

I disagree I can see quite clearly when a car is in a lairy sideways drift in a video.

So can I, but that does not mean that they can't do it or that it would be awful difficult and defineatly does not mean that after a point tarmac should turn ice

As I did say, there is far more things going on that you can't see from video.

1986 cars compared to today's cars were lot harder to drive for example, one reason I believe is cause of why we see more sliding in old videos.

At least few years ago tintop without downforce could get pretty sideways (in very controllable manner) with racing slicks, so I doubt that has been changed

The tip that helped me is that when putting on power only put your foot down more if you know you will NOT need to ease off again to correct.

Quote from Goop :

@FredFlintstone

That video is pretty much a one-off from over twenty years ago. I'd hazard a guess and suggest that tyre technology has advanced somewhat since then.

i only posted as a joke

Theres definatly something not right with the modeling within lfs, but scawen works on it and it gets better every time.

One thing i hope scawen puts in the model is tyre degredation and maybe graining for abusing them/normal tyre wear cycle.

Simon

Quote from JTbo :

So can I, but that does not mean that they can't do it or that it would be awful difficult and defineatly does not mean that after a point tarmac should turn ice

I'd have thought that if it were possible for a modern open-wheeler to get the bum out 20 or 30 degrees in a controlled slide, there would be a goggle of youtube video replies by now.... <plug> because, as we all know, Youtube has all manner of crap!</plug>

Quote :

At least few years ago tintop without downforce could get pretty sideways (in very controllable manner) with racing slicks, so I doubt that has been changed

Fair enough, I haven't seen that. You sure can get those RWD GTRs pretty damn sideways, though :cyclops:

If you go enough low class racing, club level or so where drivers are bit less skilled, you see lot of things that car can do, what you just don't see at level public (sheeps) are interested from, hence not seeing this stuff on youtube.
Of course it is hard to say from some open wheeler like FO8 but I highly doubt that it would not be capable if there would be something like that IRL.

If I would bet, then I would say that it is fair bit too easy in LFS, but it really should not be like what is it in others.

I have seen F1 cars getting out from corner tail hanging a tiny weeny bit, I think that we get in LFS too, but when it goes over that and how it goes over that and how it returns is bit difficult to judge, imo.

I have tried to drive so that I don't accelerate until I'm sure that it won't slide, often it still slides and I'm just slower or then I'm just slower

I think these should be driven so that you accelerate after apex and brake until apex, I'm very used to do braking on straight line and accelerating through whole corner, using loud pedal to keep car turning, maybe need to make new setup so that I could try to drive such way, but that won't solve issue with throttle, I guess?

Quote from Goop :

The FO8 is based on a modern open-wheeler, with modern tyres, and you can do that on pretty much every corner. Fun, yep, forgiving and good for online racing, most definitely. Realistic.... I have my doubts.....

What you're forgetting is that real single seaters tend to be setup like an understeery version of easy race to make them more forgiving oer a longer distance and where crashing is expensive. From my experience around amateur single seater racing it seems most drivers have to deliberately make them oversteer/reduce understeer by loading the front end under braking, as another side effect they also have considerably high front brake biases, about 75-80% is common. This idealoligy of setting the cars up has filtered down from professional racing, where the cars originally came from, with the idea being that the car can be driven by a quick driver fast whilst at the same time just washing into glorious understeer with a novice behind the wheel.

Racing slicks are somewhat less forgiving than road tires but the notion that it is impossible to hold a slide with them is silly, look at Tristan's early Reynard videos for evidence that it is perfectly possible to hold slides in a single seater, of course it isn't an ideal situation to be in so one would hope the top dogs have at least mastered that as I'm sure Tristan will

Quote from Goop :

That video is pretty much a one-off from over twenty years ago. I'd hazard a guess and suggest that tyre technology has advanced somewhat since then.

why would advancements make them worse to drive ?

Worse to drive? Who said that?

Based on the footage I've seen, it seems that, the trade-off for a stickier tyre is a more sudden and dramatic loss of grip when it does 'let go'.

Of course, if you have any video evidence suggesting that LFS's slick modelling is indeed accurate, I'd be happy to eat my hat, yum
edit: sorry JTbo, kinda hijacked your thread.

Quote from Goop :

Worse to drive? Who said that?

Based on the footage I've seen, it seems that, the trade-off for a stickier tyre is a more sudden and dramatic loss of grip when it does 'let go'.

Of course, if you have any video evidence suggesting that LFS's slick modelling is indeed accurate, I'd be happy to eat my hat, yum
edit: sorry JTbo, kinda hijacked your thread.

It is false perception to believe it would be because of tires, suspension is much bigger part in that alone and many other factors, but still it is not that it would be like running on ice after peak.

I don't believe that LFS open wheelers handles 100% accurate, but if it is because of tires or setup is one thing to discuss alone. Can't say that it would be better in something else, there might be some thing better but some thing worse.

Also I don't think thread is hijacked, all these things are still part of problems driving / setting up that thing.

More dramatic behaviour is caused by modern camber control, afaik. If you put modern tires to older racer it still could manage to go sideways, it would sure be bit more unforgiving, however I don't believe anyone saying that today's open wheelers don't drift because of tires, IRL physics v1.0 is still used today and tires does stick even when sliding

Edit: I do would like to see Tristan driving in Reynard, where am I able to do this without getting plane ticket and then driving to Tristan's place and forcing him to show how to drive it