Hi! Today I went to a free skidding test. It was a BMW-Mini promotion for their stability control system. Typical test: drive on a wet surface and avoid the cones, one time without braking, another test with braking, and then a second run with the system turned on.

I know there was a thread once about how LFS changes your way of driving in a good or bad way. Well, I did the test two times. The first time I was slow and a bit scared, but I did very well and didn't skid out. The second time I wanted to drive a bit faster, and in the non-braking part, the instructor pulled the handbrake without me knowing. After a bit of swinging about I saved the skid and stopped safely in the correct direction. He immediately asked me, have you ever followed skidding lessons, or did a test before? No... Do you play computer games? Yes... I told him about LFS and he seemed pretty interested, I hope he'll see this forum soon and tries the game out. Apparently playing LFS helped me A LOT with skidding avoidance. Anyone else has this experience?

P.S. I recommend EVERYONE to do one of these tests or lessons, I didn't learn anything, but it's very comforting to know that you can save a skid if you ever have to. And I won't be panicking at the weird sounds it can make or weird behavior.

LFS has helped alot with my oversteer correction alot. If you watched me race my mini about a year ago, i was'nt what you would call a pro. When ever i used to get oversteer (a 230hp mini CAN get oversteer you know :tilt i used to aplly too much throttle and steering to try and straighten it out. This just caused me to either lose alot of time because of getting too much angle, or i used to just spin out completely. Now, im alot calmer when this happens, and i am alot gentler on the throttle instead of just having it on or off.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

(a 230hp mini CAN get oversteer you know :tilt

230bhp from an A Series?

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

LFS has helped alot with my oversteer correction alot. If you watched me race my mini about a year ago, i was'nt what you would call a pro. When ever i used to get oversteer (a 230hp mini CAN get oversteer you know :tilt i used to aplly too much throttle and steering to try and straighten it out. This just caused me to either lose alot of time because of getting too much angle, or i used to just spin out completely. Now, im alot calmer when this happens, and i am alot gentler on the throttle instead of just having it on or off.

you never apply throttle if you're trying to save a skid...

Yes you do! Not all the time, but sometimes.

This is true in both RWD and (more frequently) in FWD.

In FWD the power (with opposite lock) can pull you back straight, and in RWD it's all about slip angles and weight transfer. Adding power might transfer more weight to the back, which might help the rears gain traction. Saying you never do it is wrong.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes you do! Not all the time, but sometimes.

This is true in both RWD and (more frequently) in FWD.

In FWD the power (with opposite lock) can pull you back straight, and in RWD it's all about slip angles and weight transfer. Adding power might transfer more weight to the back, which might help the rears gain traction. Saying you never do it is wrong.

True, in FWD it does help but if you find yourself sliding the last thing you want to do is floor it. I've thrown my car into slides on purpose (in open, empty parking lots) in order to test the different methods of correcting a slide and found that applying throttle will RARELY help at all.

And if you're sliding already, applying throttle will just spin the tires even more making the rear unlikely to gain traction again. Obviously there is some weight transfer but not enough for spinning tires to magically grip the road..

Maybe you are arguing this method for racing purposes but if you are driving around town or in the snow or in the rain on public roads, never apply throttle.

Quote from ans7812 :

True, in FWD it does help but if you find yourself sliding the last thing you want to do is floor it. I've thrown my car into slides on purpose (in open, empty parking lots) in order to test the different methods of correcting a slide and found that applying throttle will RARELY help at all.

Well flooring it at low speed may not help if all you do is result in wheelspin and end up loosing traction on the front as well, if you're not playing about in a car park though and are capable of applying throttle in a controlled way then applying throttle in a FWD car should have the double advantage of transferring the weight over the rear wheels and pulling it straight and will be helpful in the vast majority of situations of oversteer in a FWD car, which are mostly caused by lift off anyway.

Quote from ans7812 :

And if you're sliding already, applying throttle will just spin the tires even more making the rear unlikely to gain traction again.

I don't think tristan means hitting the throttle. I think he means applying slight throttle. It works for me in GPL (sometimes).

Yes, tapping the throttle 2 or 3 times might help a little bit, but i got the impression that he meant holding the power steady.

The worst thing you can do is just lift completely off the throttle and try to recover a lary slide with the steering alone. That route leads to tankslap city.

Quote from ans7812 :

Yes, tapping the throttle 2 or 3 times might help a little bit, but i got the impression that he meant holding the power steady.

No tapping the throttle is something you should never do except maybe if you want to deliberately loose traction on the driven wheel, and power understeer isn't quite as fun as a good powerslide. By being gentle on the throttle smoothly but quickly adding a bit in one movement.

Quote from sinbad :

The worst thing you can do is just lift completely off the throttle and try to recover a lary slide with the steering alone. That route leads to tankslap city.

At Skip Barber Driving School they teach you to lift completely off the throttle and countersteer. I corrected nearly ever slide with only countersteering.

Quote from ajp71 :

No tapping the throttle is something you should never do except maybe if you want to deliberately loose traction on the driven wheel, and power understeer isn't quite as fun as a good powerslide. By being gentle on the throttle smoothly but quickly adding a bit in one movement.

By tapping i didn't mean blipping the throttle as you would in a downshift. (if thats what you were thinking) What i meant was more "stroking" the throttle if that makes any sense.


double post.

Quote from ans7812 :

At Skip Barber Driving School they teach you to lift completely off the throttle and countersteer. I corrected nearly ever slide with only countersteering.

But everyone is playing mister smart a** here... it's common sense, it certainly wouldn't cross my mind in some sudden lost of control to aply the throttle... (talking about FWD cars here). If it actually works and you guys saved a pedestrian or your life with that maneouvre, then please say so..

Quote from ans7812 :

At Skip Barber Driving School they teach you to lift completely off the throttle and countersteer. I corrected nearly ever slide with only countersteering.

What, never touch the throttle at all until your wheels are in line again? Was that an exercise or general tip? I think it's much easier to over correct because the car is not neutrally balanced at any point, it's always slowing down with the weight on the front wheels, even when it's on the way back to in-line.

Certainly in LFS I use all three pedals and steering to adjust slides, can't say I have much experience of it in real life - the only time I ever got into a nasty slide the car was aquaplaning and there was nothing I could about it.

Quote from ans7812 :

At Skip Barber Driving School they teach you to lift completely off the throttle and countersteer. I corrected nearly ever slide with only countersteering.

Driving what exactly? Lifting off the throttle in a slide is like accepting a spin is inevitable and you may as well sit it out, unless of course you're talking about power endued oversteer when it's obviously a very different situation.

Quote from ajp71 :

Driving what exactly? Lifting off the throttle in a slide is like accepting a spin is inevitable and you may as well sit it out, unless of course you're talking about power endued oversteer when it's obviously a very different situation.

We were driving mazda RX-8s around a small oval with sprinklers on each bend. As you round the bend, the instructor says "LIFT!" (meaning lift off the throttle). You life, he pulls handbrake for half a second, you start to slide, you counter-steer correcting the slide, and apply power again. Rinse and repeat. We had a total of about 30-40 "slides." I was unable to correct the slide twice. Really, in that situation, adding power would have done absolutely nothing except make it worse.

Yes, it was trailing-throttle oversteer.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

But everyone is playing mister smart a** here... it's common sense, it certainly wouldn't cross my mind in some sudden lost of control to aply the throttle... (talking about FWD cars here). If it actually works and you guys saved a pedestrian or your life with that maneouvre, then please say so..

of course it actually works and ive done it countless times on empty parking lots
in fact from doing it i had a really hard time with rwd in lfs at first as my trained reaction to oversteer was more throttle

Quote from Shotglass :

of course it actually works and ive done it countless times on empty parking lots
in fact from doing it i had a really hard time with rwd in lfs at first as my trained reaction to oversteer was more throttle

That's good to know, i know it works with XFG for example, but i was trying to say that how many of us would actualy do it when it does happen in some bad situation in traffic, you avoid something, etc, car gets loose, you think that your scared brain would thought about doing it?...
It's different when you try it in a sim or empty parking lot..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

That's good to know, i know it works with XFG for example, but i was trying to say that how many of us would actualy do it when it does happen in some bad situation in traffic, you avoid something, etc, car gets loose, you think that your scared brain would thought about doing it?...
It's different when you try it in a sim or empty parking lot..

the fact is that in a situation such as one you described (sliding in traffic, avoiding something) the worst thing you can do is add power, its faster and safer to get your feet off everything and counter-steer. only brake when you aren't sliding anymore.

Quote from ans7812 :

its faster and safer to get your feet off everything and counter-steer. only brake when you aren't sliding anymore.

So you're suggesting that if I begin to oversteer I take all of a sudden get my foot off the gas and turn the steering wheel the opposite direction?

Quote from Boris Lozac :

That's good to know, i know it works with XFG for example, but i was trying to say that how many of us would actualy do it when it does happen in some bad situation in traffic, you avoid something, etc, car gets loose, you think that your scared brain would thought about doing it?...

im not exactly sure anymore what it was was that i did when i got some serious lift off oversteer with another car in the lane my tail was aming for but iirc i did indeed add some power to pull me out of it

btw both in a rwd and especially in a fwd lifting off completely and more importantly lifting off before youve started to countersteer is very likely to make things worse

Quote from Boris Lozac :

That's good to know, i know it works with XFG for example, but i was trying to say that how many of us would actualy do it when it does happen in some bad situation in traffic, you avoid something, etc, car gets loose, you think that your scared brain would thought about doing it?...

My brain didn't.

I was coming up to a corner on a snowy gravel road (FWD Nissan Micra... yeah, I know). Misjudged and came in way too hot, losing the rear end. I counter-steered and clutched but I was already spinning too fast to correct it. Ended up in a ditch though luckily without damage to me or the car. If I had just left the clutch in and given it some boot I'm 100% sure I would have saved it.

I hope I do it right if it happens again...

Quote from wheel4hummer :

So you're suggesting that if I begin to oversteer I take all of a sudden get my foot off the gas and turn the steering wheel the opposite direction?

Usually your tires will be sliding before you realize "i am going to oversteer soon". So yes, if you realize that your ass is hanging out, countersteer and you'll save it.

I do this in the snow all the time. Find a deserted street with a 90 degree turn onto another one. Make sure the street is wide enough so if you screw up, you don't kill yourself. Go straight until you've built up a little speed (not much or you will really kill yourself), turn into the turn and a second after you start to turn, take your feet off everything, your ass will slide out as a result of trail-throttle oversteer, give it a little countersteer, you'll straighten out, back on throttle. works every time.