I have the race got red flagged after cars started to get blown off the circuit and the tire walls got blown onto the circuit, it was complete chaos and the meeting was hastily abandoned. I don't have a problem with winds in LFS though, I'd rather they were realistic just for the sake of having a realistic experience but will race in any winds you throw. What I don't want, however, is unrealistic dangerous darkness that I get on my monitor at least at the SO sunset combos.
I have it set so it looks realistic to me under normal conditions, I have a feeling a lot of people use higher contrast levels, which to me just looks silly.
The wind does not provide any realistic feedback of any sort. Usually when a car is buffeted by the wind, you can feel it. This effect is minimilist to say the least and doesn't relate well to the sim. What would be better is if a little gauge were fitted on screen somewhere showing wind direction and speed that updates with car position (not unlike an aircraft gauge)
SamH say - "This is CTRA, not hotlapping." Fair enough, but when you finish 2nd in high wind and 1st and second get 0 points each, 3rd gets 1 point because his laptime was quicker, then the emphasis is placed on hotlapping and not racing. Race position counted for nothing in this example and the race was indeed a hotlap competition. Why should a hotlap time be rewarded and given priority to a race position. Never in my book. If I want to hotlap, there is a perfectly adequate system to do so offline. Of course, if the points system weren't linked to the lap record (which was no doubt made on a calm day) then this problem might not occur.
Go to the devs and complain about the wind - they will probably tell you LFS is in Alpha and the wind is at an early stage of development. So I say, knock it on the head until it gets better because it's just not anywhere near realistic at this stage. Actually I'd rather have rain as it would be much more predictable. Either way, to my knowledge, I've never come across a motor racing event that rewards with reduced/zero points just because it's either windy or raining or both
I suspect that is in part down to your display, in fairness.
Regarding wind i've already given my plan somewhere in a recent thread about how points will relate to it so i've not much more to say on it at the moment.
Like I've been saying in my previous posts, the problem is not with general normal wind ( up to 30kph ) the problem only occurs in the extreme IE over 40 kph, and why is it that you can get an hour or so of the extreme when it's supposed to be random, can the system randomise wind for each race rather than the whole single track rotation ?
From my experience so far wind up to 30 kph is enough that you have to adapt your driving, but above 30 kph and you start getting into the scenario of unpredictability as all manner of consistancy is lost, as one lap your fine the next lap oop's your off on a mystery tour of the flora and forna.
There's also the problem with winged cars that rely on downforce of taking it too cautious and not producing enough downforce causing you to spin, so it's trying to find that balance of pushing upto a point that the wind is not going to blow you wide and going fast enough so you don't spin out due to lack of downforce and this is where the problem lies, the extreme wind scenario seems very inconsistant lap by lap and without that IRL extra sensory perception it's a nightmare just to keep the little FOX on the black stuff.
So I say cap the wind to 30kph and lets cut out the silly season and enjoy all the racing.
LFS does not let you cap wind at a particular speed though, all this talk of a capped wind speed is fine and dandy except that it cannot be done unless you go knocking on Scawens door.
Low wind settings barely ever requires you to make any adaption in your driving. It might effect your speed on the straight a few mph, without you having to take any extra consideration for it whilst braking and turning in.
Hell even in my road car I have to allow for wind on ocassion and that is without pushing any performance envelopes. So do you want to play at being a racing driver or not?
At the end of the day there's 5 open public servers right now and all of them get some use, 4 of them pretty much constantly, so if you really hate wind i'm sure you can avoid it.
The world aint sunshine and roses. Sometimes the weather is really crappy, particularly for Scottish people who see the sun about as frequently as we see a solar eclipse.
If half the protagonists in this thread cant cope with a bit of wind then I have very little hope for the future of sim racing when we god forbid there's a bit of moisture on track. I think we need to open up half the improvement suggestions there has ever been and say "Sorry guys - you cant have rain. We cant cope with it."
AFAIK Low wind settings can be up to 30 KPH which do require a change in driving style which most people can cope with and people are not complaining about.
AFAIK High Wind settings are 30-60KPH which people are having great difficulty driving with consistantly in order to make the CTRA system a success and as a result server trafic in these periods of approx 2 hours seems to take a hit... trying to help you by helping us, not looking for an easy way out or expecting to be on the end of a vent or rant tbh
The fact of the matter is Becky is that we do not seem to cope with it hence a handfull of cars finishing the race and even less cars on the lead lap.
Your also right we do have a choice - and we do go to another server, I mean who's going to wait 10 mins when you can be on another CTRA server in 20 sec.
We're not knocking CTRA or complaining only trying to come up with constructive ideas that could increase the enjoyment for all which are based on our experiences, the fact is that there's a large percentage that leave SS1 after 1 or 2 races if there's high wind present and it's not only the inexperienced drivers neither which suggests to me that things could be improved.
Not all of us are aware what is or is not possible when coding for LFS ( such as a Cap on wind ) and you must get cheesed off reading all the crap put forward so just slap me accross the head with a wet fish and send me on my way
Bah! I see both sides of the coin. I agree absolutely with Becky on realism and unsavoury conditions. This is just a teaser to the weather conditions we've begged to see in LFS, and which we hope will be implemented in a future version of the sim. If you limit/cap the weather, you undermine the very thing we're chasing.. the simulation. It's really important to us.
We've not done thinking on how to progress, but we have no instant fix. Obviously we want people to enjoy the servers, and we want to make the experience rewarding. It IS harder to do a good lap when it's blowing a gale and we know that. Our system needs to recognize and accomodate. Becky has also said pretty well as much. The wind should stay, I think, but people who turn out on a "bad" day should have the motivation to do so. We have to find the right way to make driving on a bad day as appealing as driving on a sunny day.
I think it will cool as we progress but the new CTRAX is in its infancy and the more people we can get to be a part, the better.
Right now if we get a greater spread of people with different licenses then this helps to populate the other servers like SS2. If people right now cant get the points due to high wind then it just slows the process. Once we are at the stage of a good license distribution, then wind and points are less of a factor
The wind you experience in your own road car provides totally different feedback to LFS wind - The former is realistic, you feel the swaying and buffeting and drag. The latter is definately not. Playing at being a racing driver should not be determined by this absolutely rubbish wind feature which only provides feedback when It's often too late. ie. It punts you off in most instances.
That's not really a good way to maintain user numbers on SS1 and 2 is it ? I would imagine that restricting the wind to at least low will indeed bring back those drivers who just log off or change the circuit via "end race" when they see a high wind race.
I think many will be able to cope with rain as rain is much more predictable and at least it can be seen. This "random hand of God" that is called wind will just push you off at a whim whenever it suits and give no warning whatsover. It's not a race anymore it's a lottery of sorts. The bottom line is, dynamics like wind and rain just aeren't developed sufficiently to a degree where it can be classed as realistic. In fact, the wind, I feel, should be left in an arcade game for now. It's just rubbish. In any realistic sim I've used before, it's been the first feature to be switched off.
One problem, is that people don't check for wind when they can, and another problem, is some tracks don't have well enough placed flags to check for wind.
I really do like the weather conditions on CTRA-X servers! If its low or high wind, if you want to call yourself a good driver then you have to deal with both! I dont understand why not more high quality leagues use the wind even if the wind is not 100% realistic, but zero wind isnt 100% realistic too, but its a real challenge with wind.
Yesterday i really did like the high wind sessions on FE Gold and WE Int. and was kind of disappointed that all people startet to "vote end race" In the end i did vote myself but just because i didnt want to have that happen in the middle of the race and to shut all that moaning on the server. Maybe you could take up in the rules its forbidden to vote to end the race just because of weather conditions. Its sad that people leave the server just because they dont find perfect hotlapping conditions. And that are most likely the drivers who are crying for rain weather or tracks like the "Nordschleife" 5mins later in the forum
Points/Time/wind is sth else and you already said the point system will get a rework so its fine
Maybe an option could be to have all wind options on the SS2/Race2 servers and on the SS1/Race1 server to have just low wind. So the inexperienced drivers can learn how to drive with wind in LFS before they get the full load of wind
Already suggested by Flip i think.
Firstly it's worth pointing out that 40mph winds are not realistic for motor racing, the one meeting I've been at and seen those winds was quickly abandoned (see previous post) rain is a realistic condition and I think a lot of people won't hate it in the same way.
As for the wind in LFS though, once you've worked out which way it's pushing you it is really easy to work around, 40mph winds in LFS are completely unrealistic in that they seem to remain constant, no sudden gusts to have to take into account for. I don't have an issue with the winds myself other than not likeing them because they aren't realistic, I don't tend to find it much harder to drive with them I just have to back off a bit and adapt and be even more hopelessly slow than usual. Normally it seems to be all the front runners who get upset by the wind and leave, maybe your trying too hard to win on what is basically like a new track?
That's a bit of a contradiction between you chaps regarding those that don't like the wind factor. Which classification are those who don't like it, the - "inexperienced" or "front-runners" I'd suggest both. The wind implementation in LFS is totally unrealistic and has no place in LFS at this time. Drivers are currently voting with their log-out buttons once they see that winds are involved. The wind is just a gimmic at this time. I hope it does improve over time with upgraded releases but at this time I feel it's a slipery slope to nowhere and neither promotes, clean racing, fast driving, full servers or a worthwhile CTRA experience.
Furthermore, I am looking towards the implementation of rain. GP4 did this pretty well (given it's a very old sim now) so I don't see why LFS can't provide decent rain. With rain you will get the feedback you crave, through the tyres mostly. (as in reality) What feedback is there with wind in the sim by comparison (apart fom a bit of drag along a straight)? You may as well have a set of invisible moving magnets placed around all the corners to pull the cars off track. If that's realistic, I'll eat my FOX
Just a quick question. If or when we get rain, are the points going to be modified accordingly? To me the biggest problem with high wind is that you may drive a great race, avoid going off the track like 2/3 of the other cars, get a podium finish, but then get no or very few points. This is a bit frustrating. Apart from this I find the wind quite a challenge.
Even with the wind, I was seeing people get 15 or so points for the win, with 2nd and 3rd getting between 8 and 5 points depending on laptimes on SS1.
Once you've done 1 or 2 laps you soon get used to it, and it certainly makes for more eventful racing. This is coming from a self confessed FOX n00b, so anyone with a bit of experience in it shouldn't have any problems.
My experience in the rain is 1 single seater race in a thunderstorm and quite a lot of go kart races, count them or not, but I won a lot of wet races in the kart.
Wet weather is less predictable than dry weather, it rewards people who can react by the skin of their teath. Drivers who can adapt their braking zone by feel rather than routine. You have to study the tarmac as you approach it and look for the good line, look for where you think you can brake. It's pot luck every lap and every lap is different.
Predictable? lol.
Oh and you cant see the slippery bits either, see the water doesnt make the surface slippery but rather all the oil, rubber and gunk that normally beds into the tarmac, the rain lifts this to the surface but this requires time. The grip on any part of the race track is a 'wet time' by 'wet amount' by 'how much grit was there in the first place' by 'coarseness of tarmac'. There is no way of knowing how much grip is on a piece of tarmac except by educated assumption, guesswork, and knowing that piece of tarmac.
Assuming of course that you can even see it through all the spray. In the wet you can see 30 degrees right or left as clear as day, but if you want to look ahead then you'd better pray you are on a clear track. You guage how close you are to the car ahead by the noise of rain particles kicked up from their rear wheel hitting your crash helmet.
If any of this sounds easier than a bit of wind, then I might be wrong that when we get LFS there is going to be a significant quantity of crashes.
Becky
