A little back on the topic, I believe that a monthly progress report would calm down some folks here. I personally miss those reports because they give the impression that you are really working on the project, and give us imagination to wonder how the next patch of LFS will be.
I'm not exactly asking for periodic progress reports, but they were cool when we had.
Agreed Mogar. If Scawen has a window open to write a progress report (be it in Notepad, or Firefox), please DON'T close it until you've finished writing. Dinner/Sex/Kitchen work can wait
He could post some progress report about his kitchen, since it IS relevant to the LFS progress (since the LFS progress depends on the kitchen progress), but for the sex progress report, well, this one I don't think it's necessary... ehheheheheheheh
Chill out! I am involved in a league - maybe not quite a league but a race series, just not as official - and I help organize it. All I'm saying is a few sentances every once in a while during a period where there are no patches would be nice to remind us that the devs are still working away on their next masterpiece and it may help in avoiding useless threads such as this where people who are not as involved in the community don't know what is going on and think there won't be any progress for a while.
@Vendetta - some surprises would be nice, yes. I'm not saying they must give everything away.
I think it's safe to assume that the devs are always working on something to do with LFS, seeing as LFS is their occupation and not just some backyard hobby. Just because they're silent for a while I'm not going to get worried that they've stopped. I don't call my friends every five minutes to see if they still like me
agreed!
"gimmie gimmie gimmie, we want more nya nya nya"........stfu! patience brats!
we dont need scawen reality tv........"today scawen picked his nose................then ate it"
"tomorrw scawen will figure out the meaning of life"
"tune in next time when eric will add a panel to the UF1 bumper."
Grrrrrr.... while we know that the devs are working away on their project and hard at that, many people doubt this... which is why pointless threads like this are becoming more and more common. Wouldn't it just be better if the devs spent ~2min every month or two to let the doubters know otherwise? Just something like:
Hi Racers,
We have been working on physics for the past month. There has been good progress in the area. The aerodynamics bug has been fixed. There is also more grip on the racing line now. The tyre model has been worked on and the low speed grip issues seem to be resolved. We expect to release a new patch soon.
Thanks!
It would cannot possibly take more than 2minutes and it will show all of the people who currently don't believe in LFS that there has been and will be progress.
......or we could have to deal with threads like this every month and have the devs spend ten times as much time reading them and posting in them. Doesn't really bother me because I know we are a few patches away from having LFS light years away from the competition...
Regular progress reports are a long requested thing, but unfortunately it doesn't really work that way. It's best to just report when we actually have something interesting to report.
Because progress reports are another of these things that often cause great anger, if the report is about the development of something that some racers aren't waiting for (so our priorities are all wrong) or three weeks have been spent on a new editor function (often perceived as entirely pointless). Or, if we have been experimenting for weeks on something that may or may not be released, then it would be a near fatal mistake to mention it... we know what happens if we say "one day this new feature may possibly be implemented" - then it somehow becomes something we have promised! So we can't ever mention anything unless it's in the almost complete stage.
The only way forward with progress reports, is to make one when we have something interesting to say. Those intermediate things that some people would be interested in, aren't actually very interesting and only cause anger with some other people, due to the apparently slow pace of software development, when viewed by an external observer.
I understand about the progress report and such. I don't think anyone expects even a weekly report, but something once a month or 1.5 months would be nice.
I was finding 150+ racers on at 10pm EST a few months ago on any given weekday, now I am lucky to find 50-80, and 2-3 public servers with enough people to race. During peak Europe times on the weekend I was seeing between 700-900 players online a few months ago. Today is the most I have seen in a while, with 700.
And having 80 players to race against isn't exactly great for variety in servers on a saturday night on the east coast, actually its pretty much impossible to get a decent race going. Right now in peak hours in Europe there are only ~700 players. Even 700 players barely yeilds one decent servers for specific racing needs. I am not sure how rfactor is doing but these upcoming racing sims are probably going to bring down that number again.
Its just hard to keep an interest in the game when all this new stuff is coming out. Maybe its time to start opening up the coding a bit more to allow for mods to keep it interesting in Single Player until S2 final comes out.
Sucks to be in the US, eh? No, actually, sucks that so few Americans play LFS. Probably all playing Nascar, I guess
Okay. Only 700 players. In a racing sim (and not friggin CS). Is not enough for you?! Well damn, then go out and advertise LFS a bit more in your continent. I sure doubt that we have 'only 700' players because a lack of page updates. Sure, there would be a few more, but nowhere being significant.
I have to agree with Scawen, page updates that yield "possible" LFS content would be a bad idea, as the "maybe" would fade away more and more and it would soon become a 100% feature-to-be-implemented fact. The same thing might actually have happend with the rally pack, I fear.
Whatever, what I would like to see would be monthly updates in the forum about future plans, current problems/thoughts, kitchen development, random stuff, theories why Eric isn't posting, new hairstyles of Victor, what porn you looked at yest... err strike that last one . I don't necessarily need to hear the newest tidbits about LFS, it's just that the devs are kinda VIPs now, and the general public (read: the LFS fanboys) just need something to read about once in a while. Just enough to keep the "LFS IS DOOMED" rumours down.
I think Scawen nailed it with his reply. With some members, if you mention the "wrong" things in a progress report they get all up in arms because they want something else to be worked on. You can't please everyone, especially around here I agree that it's best to wait until there's something fairly important before you post a report. Anyway, the more time people spend writing reports, the less they're spending working on LFS. And that's what people want (I presume).
I'm sorry, but that's your opinion. You can express your opinion, no
problem there. What i don't understand is that 2cents argument turn-
around...."I'm getting bored, therefore, the code should be open". I
just don't see any logic there. Tell me again, what's stopping you guys
from playing LFS because there's a 'new' game out ?!?
The devs have mentionned their interest in releasing editors ONCE LFS IS
DONE. When that is, no one knows, but if enough people keep b!tching, it
might be sooner than later hehe Even then, there'll still be whinning for
editor updates and all
I'm a sucker who buys pretty much every race sim going. Before LFS came along GPL and the various NASCAR releases were the only sims I raced regularly and I thought Papyrus were gods. I had Indy 500, Indycar I & II, F1GP, GP2 and GP3, various Ubisoft efforts and various EA efforts (F1 1999-2001 and F1C). All had their moments but eventually fell by the wayside. I even had Spirit of Speed 1937 illepall, which was absolutely terrible.
LFS was the first sim to have lasting power, mainly due to the great online racing, great community and the ongoing efforts of the devs. Since LFS I've tried GTR, rFactor and now GTL. GTR and rFactor are pretty much forgotten (I still keep an occasional eye out for the rFactor mod that'll bring me to fire it back up), and although rFactor improved on GTR's rather poor online experience it was still way behind LFS. As to rFactor's long term threat to LFS, I think LFS will outlast it. For many rFactor's biggest strength is it's openness to modding, but the huge variety of mods that will appear will actually spread the online racers more thinly. The clunky method of mod switching within rFactor doesn't help matters either. In contrast, the tightly controlled content of LFS means the community is much more close-nit.
GTL is still taking up some of my time (the classic GT cars are keeping me interested) but its physics (despite claims in this thread to their superiority) just don't, after extended play, feel as comprehensive as LFS. Yes LFS as it currently stands has room for improvement, but it's being developed and they will improve. Beyond a few bug fix patches, GTL is what it is, with no hope of improvement. Also the sounds in GTL are on the surface very nice, but it's amazing (when I fire LFS back up) how communicative the methods employed in LFS are compared to GTL.
I for one hope the devs keep enjoying what they're doing, the way they are doing it. As long as they do, and the development continues, I think LFS will outlive many of the current and future sims. I'll probably never learn, and will continue to buy whatever sims are released but LFS will be the sim I come back to once I'm bored of them.
I may have thought Papyrus were gods, but I have since seen the light. Scawen and co are the true racing sim gods.....
That doesn't mean anything. If you'd play LFS when it's evening and begin of the night in America (like 9PM EST), you wouln't find more than 20 servers with people on it, and not more than 40 people playing. It is alot about what time it is and where the game is more popular.
@Scawen: I fully understand that it is normal to only write a progress report when there is something to update directly in the game, as you wouldn't do progress report that says that you've been testing things all month, but we don't have anything to give yet.
Maybe the solution to calm the LFS-frustrated players is to say what you are doing, even if it's not clear. For example, I think we all know you are taking a break and thinking of the physics, but we don't know really what is going on. A good remedy to that would be to say when you start programming something and what it is, even if it's a test or something hypothetic. Also, it's good to know what YOU are doing, but it'd be very nice to know what Erik is doing as well.
I'd also add something that I think personally. I know it won't change anything if I say something, but it's my opinion. I think we all agree that there are angry or unhappy persons about what is going on in LFS currently. There is a great remedy to that: fast patch. You've done it before, maybe without doing it. The patch that I'm talking about is the patch where Skidmarks were added. This was marvelous and everybody stopped complaining at that time, which is what you want! So, if I'd be you, I'd do things like that, that, hopefully, don't take too much time. For example, if you ask to Erik to design a new interior for the FZR ( ), this can be surelly done before the physics are done, and could be a small patch, with only that in it, and would make people happier.
i remember when the mrt5 came out in its own little patch, it was like the game was brand new! mostly because it was the first car on slicks. but still, couldn't a new car be introduced every 4-8 weeks?
pardon my ignorance if this is an overly complicated request. when i had to take computer programming at university i couldn't even make a random number generator without help. illepall
More like 2-4 months, if everything goes well.
But your ignorance shall be forgiven
Remember, you not only have to model the car, you also have to create all the physics settings for suspension, engine, etc. Then you have to test the car for eventual bugs, and if you create car classes, you have to test them if they're reasonably equal. But this testing cannot be done alone, or even with just three players. You have to get skilled drivers from the community and let them exploit the hell out of the cars, just to see the most obvious imbalances. And in the end, only the community can make the final test of balance (*cough* FZR *cough*).
How would that work no one seems to listen to what Scawen says as it is now or at least they twist it to what they want too hear rather than what he is actually saying what your suggesting is a structure not much different to what they initially escaped from
Anyway from where I stand there pretty much isn't a week that goes by where I don't know what he is doing... he almost always leaves some clue to what he is doing in various threads around the forum it's just most are too impaitent and don't seem to comprehend just how long it takes to do some things
I think we should be more like NotAnIllusion said "More racin' less complainin' "
Just trying to be objective about racer numbers, Looking at the LFSworld graphs, over the last six months LFS has had a pretty consistent peak number of about 350-400 licensed drivers online and also 350-400 demo racers online. Licensed users have been falling off very slowly over that time but demo numbers have remained consistent.
I cant access history graphs for racecast but the graph they show for the last 24 hours indicates a peak number of just over 200 racers. Obviously they have no demo racers, and it's also possible that they count racers differently, or even that its possible to race rFactor online without appearing on RaceCast, I dont know.
But certainly there is nothing to indicate that rFactor is ahead of LFS just yet. Although to be fair, rFactor is fairly new to the market and may take a while to grow.
I agree that it's best to wait until there's something fairly important before you post a report. Anyway, the more time people spend writing reports, the less they're spending working on LFS. And that's what people want (I presume).
Even then, there'll still be whinning for 
illepall, which was absolutely terrible.
no one seems to listen to what Scawen says as it is now or at least they twist it to what they want too hear rather than what he is actually saying 
and don't seem to comprehend just how long it takes to do some things 
