This has probably been suggested before, but as rFactor is getting one, I think it is high time for LFS to get one also. Sure, the layout thing is nice, but take a look at this:


http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=RaceParks


Also, please see the youtube video for an excellent demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0WsQ6bLdY

dont you think it would be slightly boring to drive the exact same corner 10 times in a row each lap ?

Quote from Shotglass :

dont you think it would be slightly boring to drive the exact same corner 10 times in a row each lap ?

People have no imagination... I'm sure Scawen could think of a way to make the corner angle/radius/whatever it is called variable...

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

This has probably been suggested before, but as rFactor is getting one, I think it is high time for LFS to get one also. Sure, the layout thing is nice, but take a look at this:


http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=RaceParks


Also, please see the youtube video for an excellent demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0WsQ6bLdY

Track editing and so on was requested that often. First of all LFS ist actually designed to have no editing. That makes it better for competitions and we actually don't want to have these rFactor problems e.g. loaded the wrong version of the Track a.s.o.
the next thing is that LFS is not a full release. It's just 0,5 and before getting editor modes and so on it would be more useful to get some other modifications. Modding / Editig will be one of the last things included to LFS.

Is it right community?

Btw... as far as i 've seen the movie, it seemes that every track looks the same. This is boring. First I thought it is like trackmania, but then i saw: It is worse.

Quote from TFalke55 :

Track editing and so on was requested that often. First of all LFS ist actually designed to have no editing. That makes it better for competitions and we actually don't want to have these rFactor problems e.g. loaded the wrong version of the Track a.s.o.

Oh god... You have completely missed the point - the tracks are constructed via a system and the only data you need to get is the configuration data (tile number 1 is at square A1 with elevation 2 with radius 30, tile number 7 is at square A2 with elevation 3 with radius 0, etc) - there is no wrong version!!!!!!! This is not full scale track building. IT's a track editor and the track parts are predefined for pete's sake - what kind of wrong version can you have!?

Quote from TFalke55 :

the next thing is that LFS is not a full release. It's just 0,5 and before getting editor modes and so on it would be more useful to get some other modifications. Modding / Editig will be one of the last things included to LFS.

Like what?? Who cares about the god damn GTR interiors when you can have a track editor...

Quote from TFalke55 :

Is it right community?

Don't preach me about the LFS ideology. I was a follower two and a half years before you got on board

Quote from TFalke55 :

Btw... as far as i 've seen the movie, it seemes that every track looks the same. This is boring. First I thought it is like trackmania, but then i saw: It is worse.

It doesn't have to be exactly the same!! This rFactor project has also just started. If at the right hands it has great potential.

God... you people really don't have any imagination...

3dsmax is the best way to make tracks...EOD.

Quote from frankwer :

3dsmax is the best way to make tracks...EOD.

Not everyone has the time to learn a 3d program and use it to design a track.

This system has an advantage that you don't need any special skills.

And it has the disadvantage of poor, generic results.

I can appreciate the fact that you want something a little more complex than the system being designed for rFactor, but the bottom line is that it will still have a less-than-desireable result.

If someone is going to make a track, they need to put in the time and effort to do it properly. If they are not willing to do that, then they should not be making tracks (same goes for mods/cars and other 'large' items). Giving people this tool is just inviting people to make crappy 5 minute tracks and littering the forums and the online community with their "handywork." People say they don't want shoddy mods like rF has, this type of tool will only increase those problems.

Autocross

On the vid i was waiting for the water to start running along the bits he had already laid down.

That rF system will not produce good tracks, it's a fun idea but most people are just going to get bored of straights and constant radius identical corners and a perfectly flat track in about 5 minutes. Credit where it's due though the results do look impressive (if dull).

Quote from frankwer :

3dsmax is the best way to make tracks...EOD.

The Papyrus track file system does have its merits as well, it allowed very easy production of a smooth track surface that was not dependent on a user made mesh being sufficiently detailed. It gave slight limitations as to what one could create compared to 3ds Max, but these were almost entirely purely graphical limitations, it produced very small file sizes and with N2003 we got a WYSIWYG editor called Sandbox. Thankfully Sandbox didn't make it a 5 minute job to create a track (except ovals) so you tended to end up with only good tracks being released.

Quote from ajp71 :

That rF system will not produce good tracks, it's a fun idea but most people are just going to get bored of straights and constant radius identical corners and a perfectly flat track in about 5 minutes. Credit where it's due though the results do look impressive (if dull).

i think it might work if they put in some stuntesque stuff like corckscrews and loops
but in its current form ... no

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

This system has an advantage that you don't need any special skills.

I reckon the requirement of special skills is an advantage. I'd rather have a track designed by a person who has built it from the ground up than have a thousand Lego tracks to race on.

Quote from frankwer :

3dsmax is the best way to make tracks...EOD.

Agreed! I'd _far_ sooner see some 3DS plugins released (at the appropriate time) , just as ISI did for rF (but with real support and some actual documentation).

Building a track with tiles!? HAH! Even Generally track creation is more involved.. I can only imagine the tracks this tile thing will create.. and it's not a good mental image. :scared:

While I appreciate the coding skills that has probably gone into the project, the project itself is nothing more than a joke



Regards,

Ian

A few months ago I suggested a track making tool using an LFS style interface. Basically, you selected a part (corner/straight/whatever) and then there were a load of sliders to choose the variables.

Corners had length, radius, start width, end width, start height, end height, bank angle.
Straights had length, start width, end width, start height, end height, bank angle.
It also had the ability to place "features" like potholes and other track imperfections, using an autocross-style drag and drop feature. Then each of those features had it's own variables, like depth, diameter, etc.

As you can see from just that, to have a decent editor (rather than just "curve" or "straight" takes a lot of variables and a lot of work.

The advantage of my system is that the track would be generated on-the-fly when you logged into the server (like autocross tracks) so there'd be no downloads involved. It's technically possible, but it'd take a lot of work probably better spent elsewhere.

I can't wait to drive brilliant corners from this track maker... oh, no wait a minute. Constant radius or wiggly? Hmmmm.

I'm sure more corner types will be made, and I'm sure some simple gradients might be implemented, but there is no getting away from the fact that every track from this editor will be rubbish (not that that matters, as rFactor cars are like American cars - they can't do corners).

Quote from Dajmin :

A few months ago I suggested a track making tool using an LFS style interface. Basically, you selected a part (corner/straight/whatever) and then there were a load of sliders to choose the variables.

Corners had length, radius, start width, end width, start height, end height, bank angle.
Straights had length, start width, end width, start height, end height, bank angle.
It also had the ability to place "features" like potholes and other track imperfections, using an autocross-style drag and drop feature. Then each of those features had it's own variables, like depth, diameter, etc.

As you can see from just that, to have a decent editor (rather than just "curve" or "straight" takes a lot of variables and a lot of work.

The advantage of my system is that the track would be generated on-the-fly when you logged into the server (like autocross tracks) so there'd be no downloads involved. It's technically possible, but it'd take a lot of work probably better spent elsewhere.

That sounds pretty good really - a bit like the GP2/3/4 track editors, but with more features (and less bugs). I love the idea of no downloads too

Go go 4D Sports: Driving*!

* AKA: Stunts.

I like the concept, should be fun in multiplayer, especially if there's some originality in tile design or if there are multiple tilesets to have some decent stunt driving (Shotglass said). Also kudos to the kid for making it web-based - however he also mentions that file size can be a problem for larger tracks. But yeah, for a "serious racing experience" it would need a whole lot of tweaking.

PS edit: how come whenever I'm typing out a post (which I usually do in the course of several minutes as I'm doing other things) Tristan almost always manages to have snuck in a post right before mine?

Well, this is a very small and simple track maker, the secret of these tools is variety. You can't avoid the "similar corners" thing, but you can do great things with a proper trackmaker like Trackmania one.

It's not the ultimate track making tool, just think of it as a cool autocross editor.

I think it would take Scawen/Eric a lonnnng time to make one that was still worth having after a week or so, but with a little imagination and a LOT of options for scenery type, road surface, corner radius, camber, gradient, road width (rally stages anyone?), curb type, curb height etc etc then it could definitely be something that adds longevity. I mean, many of us have been tempted to try the rather crappy race tracks that the autocross editor can provide, so it would definitely get some use.

I don't want that track making rubbish...

look at it...

seriously, that can't be good.

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

I don't want that track making rubbish...

look at it...

seriously, that can't be good.

So don't download it. Nobody will ever force you to use it, believe me.

Quote from sinbad :

I think it would take Scawen/Eric a lonnnng time to make one that was still worth having after a week or so, but with a little imagination and a LOT of options for scenery type, road surface, corner radius, camber, gradient, road width (rally stages anyone?), curb type, curb height etc etc then it could definitely be something that adds longevity. I mean, many of us have been tempted to try the rather crappy race tracks that the autocross editor can provide, so it would definitely get some use.

I agree with your suggestion. Especially if it had tree density, let you place trees down, a random tree generator, custom objects, then it would be nice.

Prefab, however, is horrible.

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

So don't download it. Nobody will ever force you to use it, believe me.

But if it's implented in LFS, then that are the better filled tracks (because they are new)

it would only ruin (sp?) LFS, because the corners would be the same.

the idea is ok, but at least make it much, much more better.

Quote from Shotglass :

i think it might work if they put in some stuntesque stuff like corckscrews and loops
but in its current form ... no

rF can't do corkscrews or loops, the physics engine doesn't allow this (as illustrated by a track released some time ago with a rather large pipe-like object), so no luck there.

Quote from Gunn :

I reckon the requirement of special skills is an advantage. I'd rather have a track designed by a person who has built it from the ground up than have a thousand Lego tracks to race on.

Agreed.

Quote from MAGGOT :

rF can't do corkscrews or loops, the physics engine doesn't allow this (as illustrated by a track released some time ago with a rather large pipe-like object), so no luck there.

actually i thought about adding something to the effect of "but its physics probably cant handle something a game in the early 90s did just fine" but i thought better of it

youve made me curious though ... what happens if you attempt these sort of things in rf ?