Call me a noob, but is there a reason why ovals cant be raced in the rain? More specifically, if NASCAR had windshield wipers and rain tires would it be able to race in the rain?
#1
- lizardfolk
stock car and rain?
I think they would... I find no other problems, but I'm a noob.
IIRC The Indy500 was tried in the rain one year, with rain tires. Complete disaster. I don't think oval racing in the rain is a smart decision at ALL; crashes are bad enough, imagine those crashes in the rain. Someone will get seriously seriously hurt.
NASCAR has had a rain race before (or maybe just a practice?) when they were in Japan. Windshield wipers and all IIRC.
NASCAR has had a rain race before (or maybe just a practice?) when they were in Japan. Windshield wipers and all IIRC.
#4
- DodgeRacer
The main problems stem from the fact on a closed oval like that, the mist created by the cars becomes so severe that visability turns to zero.
and at a constant 160-190mph, rain tires tear up, and the last thing you want on an oval is failing tires.
It will not happen if not ever, at least for many, many years.
and at a constant 160-190mph, rain tires tear up, and the last thing you want on an oval is failing tires.
It will not happen if not ever, at least for many, many years.
#5
- lizardfolk
It wouldn't be this one wouldn't it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T95GgQJnOdM
Nascar was in Japan?
As for the mists, i think (and I may be wrong) depends on the degree of rain. Nascar would just call the race if it drizzles. If there's a heavy rain, then ya, but a little wouldn't hurt would it?
NASCAR could use wets on road courses, but wipers and heated windscreens would be needed.
Another point - for some tracks in the summer, surely air conditioning in the cars would be an idea - they have them in closed LMPs now (IE the Pug).
Another point - for some tracks in the summer, surely air conditioning in the cars would be an idea - they have them in closed LMPs now (IE the Pug).
NASCAR use to do rain on road courses, but because it never happened they stopped making the tyres. I can't imagina an oval race in the rain. They already bump and bounce into eachother, but when there is a huge cloud of spray over someone who spun on the racing line, what do you think will happen?
They could always drive slower. Or stop and retire. I just don't see how oval drivers can call themselves half decent if they refuse to drive in the wet or attempt unbanked/right hand corners.
The whole purpose of oval racing is that the spectators get to see the race. As mentioned, the mist/spray would make things impossible to see.
This would be worse for the drivers, not seeing ahead on an oval is non-sensical and deadly, as there is nowhere to go (in case of accidents) and cars are in high speed packs unlike road-racing.
This would be worse for the drivers, not seeing ahead on an oval is non-sensical and deadly, as there is nowhere to go (in case of accidents) and cars are in high speed packs unlike road-racing.
Yeah, because you watch road course races with your eyes closed.
Might as well if it's raining, you can't see squat.
Drivers or spectators.It's quite easy to figure out. 43 cars running at the limits of an oval, whether rain or no rain, is much dangerous crashing into the wall than road racers running at the limit whether rain or no rain. Oval racing is done at much higher speeds and there is no run-off areas, no sand, no tire barriers, etc. There is the softwall on track corner, but it is entirely different scooting head first into a softwall with concrete behind it at 200 mph, than it is running into a tire barrier after being slowed down from the sand at less than triple digit speeds.
It's all about safety and nothing else. It simply isn't safe to run oval speeds in the rain. You spin out on a road course, and you do just that, spin out and stop. Spin out in a top level stockcar oval course, and you are heading into a concrete wall at whatever speed you were doing.
[OT]The trolling of some members in this community in any topic regarding NASCAR, stockcar racing, or oval racing is getting quite a bit old......
It's all about safety and nothing else. It simply isn't safe to run oval speeds in the rain. You spin out on a road course, and you do just that, spin out and stop. Spin out in a top level stockcar oval course, and you are heading into a concrete wall at whatever speed you were doing.
[OT]The trolling of some members in this community in any topic regarding NASCAR, stockcar racing, or oval racing is getting quite a bit old......
I think it was in honour of the Nagano Olympics ('94?) they ran an exhibition race in Japan. I don't remember what track though; I want to say Suzuka but I honestly can't remember.
[EDIT] Yep, looks like that was what I saw. I was lead to believe they ran wet tires and attempted to actually race in it; my mistake.
Not just protos, I believe the rules stems to the GT cars as well. Any car with a roof is required to run an A/C unit IIRC.
That was a moronic comment. On road courses, spectators can only see the couple corners near them, on an Oval, you can see pretty much the entire course. I believe that was the point there. You should start thinking before you post at least part of the time...
I really dont know if your sarcastic or just stupid -_-
Yes that is true. But doesn't the danger depend on the degree of rain. Right now even if it drizzles they call the race. All i'm asking is why cant ovals be raced during a drizzle. If it's a giant storm then I can understand, but a little water should cause too much mist and danger (this may be a ignorant statement, if so plz correct me)
Particularly on a paved oval circuit, any liquid residue can cause huge grip loss. So basically it would just be too high a compromise in safety to put 43 cars on track with significantly reduced handling abilities.
Slower speeds mean accidents would probably be safer.
Slower speeds means handling difficulties would be more easily caught
Lots of races have >40 cars, sometimes on street circuits with no runoff.
I haven't read one single reason not to run stock cars on ovals in the wet (apart from perhaps the spectators one, which confirms it's more wrestling style stories than decent driving).
Slower speeds means handling difficulties would be more easily caught
Lots of races have >40 cars, sometimes on street circuits with no runoff.
I haven't read one single reason not to run stock cars on ovals in the wet (apart from perhaps the spectators one, which confirms it's more wrestling style stories than decent driving).
That's the thing though, speeds would not decrease to the level that would increase the percieved safety. 3600lb cars going 190mph take a long time to stop, even in ideal conditions.
I was at an Indy Racing League race where two spectators were killed by debris. It was at a 1.5 mile oval (dry), the cars were lapping at 220mph (1600lb cars). The incident involved two cars crashing out of turn 4. By the time they had slid to a stop it was past the start finish line into turn 1, probably over 1/4 mile away. Everyone else around them could slow down.
On a wet oval 1.5-2.6 miles long, stock cars would probably still be going 160-170mph, maintained, not peak. These are not speeds or groupings you see on street circuits. If two crashed, the competitors behind would
A) be blind to seeing it due to spray.
B) have no way to stop/slow in avoidance.
Its nonsensical to race on a wet oval.
Is your Formula car easier to correct in the rain just because you're going slower?
I was at an Indy Racing League race where two spectators were killed by debris. It was at a 1.5 mile oval (dry), the cars were lapping at 220mph (1600lb cars). The incident involved two cars crashing out of turn 4. By the time they had slid to a stop it was past the start finish line into turn 1, probably over 1/4 mile away. Everyone else around them could slow down.
On a wet oval 1.5-2.6 miles long, stock cars would probably still be going 160-170mph, maintained, not peak. These are not speeds or groupings you see on street circuits. If two crashed, the competitors behind would
A) be blind to seeing it due to spray.
B) have no way to stop/slow in avoidance.
Its nonsensical to race on a wet oval.
Is your Formula car easier to correct in the rain just because you're going slower?
I read this thread earlier and thought the same, but then it occurred to me that whilst one crash in isolation might be no more dangerous, the spray and lack of grip for evasive manoeuvres and braking could increase the likelihood of multiple car pileups and of big car/stationary car hits quite a bit.
edit, narrowly beaten by srdsprinter
Even if speeds were decreased enough to be "safe", it would
A) Make the races even more boring
B) Make the aero strategy of oval racing less prominent
A) Make the races even more boring
B) Make the aero strategy of oval racing less prominent
Yes, by a long way.
Interesting. I would have to guess you are not at the same limit that you are in the dry.
One thing to keep in mind, Tristan, is that in most road course racing the entire pack of cars is not all together like it is in Oval racing; particularily NASCAR.
With a wet setup single seaters are generally much easier to drive and nearly all the crashes and spins you see in the wet are caused by cars that aren't correctly setup for wet conditions. The limit is a bit watery in the wet because of how the track surface changes dynamically and it requires adaption rather than trying to drive the pre-described line that people gradually learn and develop over years on a bone dry track.
Driving in the wet is a skill that most oval racers won't be at all used to, they expect to brake, change gear, turn in and accelerate at exact points on the track and just aren't going to be able to fathom having change all of those on a lap by lap basis based on the conditions. Regardless of spray and safety issues I just don't think it's part of an oval racers skill set.
What exactly is an "oval racer"??? Montoya, Zanardi, Villenueve, Gordon all arguably "oval racers" have shown their skill-sets are anything but limited to ovals. To call NASCAR racers oval racers and limit their skillset is incredibly naive. Roughly half of the nextel cup drivers have participated in non-oval races outside their series, usually doing damn well in the 24hr of Daytona, or ALMS races.
Some have grown up racing on dirt, and you better believe that requires amazing car control.
Stop the innuendo slighting NASCAR please.
Oh, and you can forget about the non-adaptability to changing conditions. Cloud cover can easily effect lap times tenths of seconds. Winds, Marbles (rubber build-up), and ever-changing aero conditions as well (the cars are approaching the aero-sensitivity of open-wheelers).
Some have grown up racing on dirt, and you better believe that requires amazing car control.
Stop the innuendo slighting NASCAR please.
Oh, and you can forget about the non-adaptability to changing conditions. Cloud cover can easily effect lap times tenths of seconds. Winds, Marbles (rubber build-up), and ever-changing aero conditions as well (the cars are approaching the aero-sensitivity of open-wheelers).
Nope, because it's wet. The limit is lower (and slower). Which is the point I am making. Thanks for assisting with it.
The conclusion - wet accidents generally happen at slower speeds, and wet slides are more easily caught due to the lower speeds. Thus oval races can and should be raced in the wet. Safety a concern (not from lone car accidents but from people running into them)? Then stay at home or make the cars safer!
stock car and rain?
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