Sim Racing Tonight Press Release - August 18 2007
Episode One of the new show Sim Racing Tonight is now ON THE AIR !!!

Sim Racing Tonight is the only show dedicated to the world of Simulated Motorsports. Every episode, SRT will bring you reports from every genre in the world of Sim Racing. Stock Car, Formula One, Sports Cars, Rally and any other form thats interesting and entertaining.

SRT will bring you stories from around the globe about the people devoted to the sport along with news and reviews from inside the industry about the gear needed and used to become a professional sim racer.

Whether you’re new to sim racing or a long time veteran, Sim Racing Tonight hopes to have something for you….

CLICK HERE to watch Episode one of Sim Racing Tonight! The crew at SRT hope you all enjoy it !

Nice!

not too bad

Indeed, very impressive I do wonder if you guys can keep it going so often I wish you all the luck though

Does SRT in any way involve LFS?

If not, two questions: 1) why not?; 2) when will it?

The reason I ask is that LFS is *the* most played multiplayer racing sim in the world, and you're obviously aware of, and familiar with, LFS or you wouldn't be posting in the General LFS Discussion section of the LFS forum. So why can't I find any coverage of LFS races in the SRT broadcast, and what do we do about addressing this glaring hole in future?

Similar with A.S.S...

LFS is a pretty insular community compared to the other big names in sim racing. Not sure that there's a lot that can be done to change that at the moment. The lack of name brands/licensing and the absence of real world tracks/cars knocks us down a peg in the public view, not to mention the (gradually fading) perception of LFS as a kind of training wheels-on sim.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Similar with A.S.S...

LFS is a pretty insular community compared to the other big names in sim racing. Not sure that there's a lot that can be done to change that at the moment. The lack of name brands/licensing and the absence of real world tracks/cars knocks us down a peg in the public view, not to mention the (gradually fading) perception of LFS as a kind of training wheels-on sim.

Can I get a 'W'?

Can I get a 'T'?

Now gimme an 'F'!

If LFS is 'training wheels on' sim, then I guess all the other (except GPL) are train simulators? Actually I'm kind of happy that LFS' no-brands-no-licensing mentality keeps away certain kind of crowd.

Oh how wrong can one be?

A point was made to me a few days ago which I agree with, and which I think is absolutely fundamental to the whole sim racing genre. LFS is real sim racing, while everything else is an imitation. Sounds bold doesn't it?

In LFS, the cars and tracks are not real. They are LFS cars. They are not imitations of BMWs against imitations of Lotus, against imitations of Ferarri. They are 100% simulations in their own right, independently of any real life counterpart.

This means the LFS sim drivers are drivers in their own right. They are not pretending to be a real-life driver in a virtual version of a real-life car. LFS is not an imitation. Every other sim out there is exactly that. And because every other sim out there imitates a real-life car and series, it cannot be considered sim racing for the sake of sim racing in its own right, and as itself, an entity.

LFS is the only commercially available sim racing environment which is true sim racing, in its purest form.

Very nice thought there, Sam. I like that. I guess you could sum it up as two types of sim racing, the noun and the verb. The noun as in the other sims as an imitation of a racing type (ie, F1, GTR, WTCC, NASCAR, etc.) and LFS sim racing as a verb, the simulation of the act of racing itself.

Absolutely, Mike! I think that's spot on

Quote from SamH :

Oh how wrong can one be?

A point was made to me a few days ago which I agree with, and which I think is absolutely fundamental to the whole sim racing genre. LFS is real sim racing, while everything else is an imitation. Sounds bold doesn't it?

In LFS, the cars and tracks are not real. They are LFS cars. They are not imitations of BMWs against imitations of Lotus, against imitations of Ferarri. They are 100% simulations in their own right, independently of any real life counterpart.

This means the LFS sim drivers are drivers in their own right. They are not pretending to be a real-life driver in a virtual version of a real-life car. LFS is not an imitation. Every other sim out there is exactly that. And because every other sim out there imitates a real-life car and series, it cannot be considered sim racing for the sake of sim racing in its own right, and as itself, an entity.

LFS is the only commercially available sim racing environment which is true sim racing, in its purest form.

You should contact the dictionnary editor because it's exactly that

Sim Racing Tonight is a good idea, now lets see if this will continue. I wish you good luck for the future DarinSRT.

Quote from SamH :

Oh how wrong can one be?

A point was made to me a few days ago which I agree with, and which I think is absolutely fundamental to the whole sim racing genre. LFS is real sim racing, while everything else is an imitation. Sounds bold doesn't it?

In LFS, the cars and tracks are not real. They are LFS cars. They are not imitations of BMWs against imitations of Lotus, against imitations of Ferarri. They are 100% simulations in their own right, independently of any real life counterpart.

This means the LFS sim drivers are drivers in their own right. They are not pretending to be a real-life driver in a virtual version of a real-life car. LFS is not an imitation. Every other sim out there is exactly that. And because every other sim out there imitates a real-life car and series, it cannot be considered sim racing for the sake of sim racing in its own right, and as itself, an entity.

LFS is the only commercially available sim racing environment which is true sim racing, in its purest form.

Driving fictional cars on fictional tracks is sim racing in its purest form. Sorry but that is the most arrogant and naiive thing I've heard in a while.

Fictional content has nothing to do with how good or bad LFS is as long as the content has some reality basis, like the physics, track layout and race procedures.

I do the exactly same thing with rfactor, LFS and GPL. I drive a virtual car on my computer screen. I'm not pretending to be a Senna or Clark but even if I was pretending it has nothing to do with how good, real or false the experience is. Some sims feel better and some worse but it doesn't always mean that your feel is better than the next guy's.

And what is BF1 then?

EDIT: Liked the show too, although I'd like to see more criticism and basic feelings from the tests and the topics as a whole. "The shifter feels like a real car" doesn't tell me anything, really :/

Having a BF1 in LFS is very different from having the entire F1 06 field. In LFS, we have a representation of an F1 car, but in another sim you'd have (or you should expect) individual team cars with individual team car capabilities, setup limitations and so on.. to mimick the F1 team it represents.

I'm not saying that a sim/game developer is wrong to develop their sim based on real-life counterparts/seasons at all. I'm just saying that in doing so, you're not setting the genre of simulated motorsports afloat as a motor racing genre in its own right. You're merely mimicking something that already exists.. paralleling it.. placing the sim you're playing firmly in the shadow of its real-life counterpart.

Sim racing as a recognisable and identifiable sport, independent and strong in its own right, cannot be done that way if it is to BE an independent sport. To stand on its own four wheels, it has to be something that doesn't duplicate something in the real world.

My statement isn't intended to be arrogant. I'm just trying to point out that having purely fictional cars in LFS, with their own handling characteristics that are not characteristics because the real-life car has those characteristics, makes LFS a good place to go if you want to get established as a racing sim driver.. never to be overshadowed by a real-life counterpart, because there isn't one.

[edit] I'm trying to think of ways to better express what I'm trying to say, and failing miserably. Basically when I said that LFS is sim racing in its purest form, I'm referring specifically to the genre and not drawing comparisons with other games/sims.

Am I supposed to just say "well done", or can I say what I really think?

Quote from Hyperactive :

I'm not pretending to be a Senna or Clark but even if I was pretending it has nothing to do with how good, real or false the experience is.

No, of course you're not pretending to be them.. but because you're driving in their car, with their livery, with their helmet and suit, anyone watching you *will* (if they know anything about the motorsport) *see* them, and not you.

I'm talking in context here.. sim racing as a spectator sport, per the OP's broadcast. A spectator will see YOUR driving, but won't see or perceive YOU. They'll see Senna.

Sam is taking an aspect of a much more involved discussion/thesis/debate which isn't part of the LFS community right now but is going to effect it, and he's applying part of that debate here because SRT has spilled into our forums, what Sam isn't doing is explaining where this perspective of point of view/argument/debate comes from and why.

It's all to do with sim sport coverage, and how the sport is best represented on a more global scale. It's a discussion that is being had behind numerous closed doors and is to do with the professionalisation of the sport, whether connected or related SRT have started producing a 'professional' TV show and pitched it to a television channel, which may or may not have a negative influence in the overall promotion of the sport to a wider audience with limited airspace available.

The point is, and what i'm getting at, is that Sam has taken a part of the STCC pitch which is - if Sim racing is to be presented as a sport should it not stand on it's own merits, rather than being a fake immitation? Surely if sim racing is to touch a mainstream audience then it is better represented with it's own heroes rather than a fake "Jason Plato driving last years Seat racing against Prilaux's BMW, obviously the virtual Plato, Wideboy Nine Eight Nine, is less agressive than his real life counterpart....".

Whether this applies to SRT is a moot point, as SRT is pertaining to cover multiple simulations and LFS should be a part of that - so going back to Sam's original point of why isn't LFS covered is a much more important question, and I believe it will be for the same reason that RSC and ASS give: We want to cover it - but we've no personal interest in LFS.

Fundamentally LFS stands apart from the wider sim community. This breeds mistrust and missunderstanding. In my recent dealings with the wider sim community i've found they have little understanding or appreciation of the supporting technology we take for granted, or for the sheer size and scale of the LFS user base. Meenwhile there are things I do not comprehend - like ovals ...

Anyway what we should be asking here is do we want LFS features in this show, if we do then how do we go about making it happen?

Quote from Becky Rose :

Anyway what we should be asking here is do we want LFS features in this show,

No!

gee. NASCAR 2003 is still going?

Really good show! For someone like me, who is in the scene for like one year or something, the history part was pretty intresting Also i liked the insight to the other simulation leagues/events. Nice to see what else is happening in the sim universe ^^

And please keep the real brands vs real simulation etc. discussion out of here Oo At the end of the day the only thing that is for sure is the fact that LFS has annoying fanboys ^^

Quote from Flughafen :

the fact that LFS has annoying fanboys ^^

Why do I get the fealing this was directed at Sam and I, and if my paranoia serves me correctly, why has the postee not realised I was trying to return the thread to topic?

OT:

Quote from SamH :

I'm talking in context here.. sim racing as a spectator sport, per the OP's broadcast. A spectator will see YOUR driving, but won't see or perceive YOU. They'll see Senna.

The viewers see what is shown to them. If you show the names of Senna and Schumacher on the screen, the viewer will of course see Senna and Schumacher. If the words Senna and Schumacher are attached to specific cars and drivers, a viewer will of course see them as Senna and Schumacher. If the drivers are driving Senna's and Schumacher's cars but their real names are shown, the real names stand.

It is really that simple.

Quote from SamH :

You're merely mimicking something that already exists.. paralleling it.. placing the sim you're playing firmly in the shadow of its real-life counterpart.

Which is all what racing sims are about. To create a virtual reality about the real racing.

Quote from SamH :

To stand on its own four wheels, it has to be something that doesn't duplicate something in the real world.

Why? All you are doing is trying to duplicate the feeling of driving that box with 4 wheels; racing it. If the 3d model around those 4 wheels is imaginery it doesn't mean that something is more or less special, fake or "duplicate".

Quote from SamH :

...never to be overshadowed by a real-life counterpart, because there isn't one.

So RAC and BF1 are overshadowed by their real life counterparts? Really, no .

The reason why your post got my interest is simply because it is just one of those posts that get posted every time there is a chance to compare sims. Every thing LFS has must be seen as a strong point against others. Take modding, real cars/tracks, sound engines, development methods or community spirit. LFS has to always be the better one, even if the arguments are not making any sense, like yours

What Becky says about the whole commercial sim racing scene is about right imho. Although she didn't say much.


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And about SRT, if they are going to make a show about Sim Racing Tonight, they want to cover LFS racing as well. But the whole idea (seems) of the show is to display sim racing on its higher levels. I do not know much about higher level events using LFS but it would be just stupid to leave out any 24 hour races or any other big events, was the choise of sim LFS or not.

There is plenty room for development but for a first show it was good. Better script and more in-depth stuff would help.

What bothers me most is the feeling that the show doesn't feel enough "done by sim racers". It feels more like a show about sim racing in normal sports channel. Good, no excellent

Quote from Hyperactive :

The reason why your post got my interest is simply because it is just one of those posts that get posted every time there is a chance to compare sims. Every thing LFS has must be seen as a strong point against others. Take modding, real cars/tracks, sound engines, development methods or community spirit. LFS has to always be the better one, even if the arguments are not making any sense, like yours

It makes sense to me, and I don't imagine me labouring it will make it make more sense to anyone else

We really need some feedback from the SRT guys regarding LFS's placement in the SRT broadcast, not least because this forum is the General LFS Discussion forum, and if it's nothing to do with LFS, it needs escorting somewhere more appropriate.

I didn't see any threats ... and as for mods editing other peoples' posts, clearly you're referring to an incident involving you that happened in another thread - which I think was justified btw - but which is completely irrelevant to this (quite interesting) topic.

This is weird. Am I really the only person here who thought the show was utterly awful? I only watched the whole thing out of morbid curiosity.

Haven't seen it - simracing broadcasts (or even just shows about simracing) aren't even remotely close to being my cuppa tea (hell, I stopped reading ASS nearly straight away), but the thread about it became kinda interesting. I might have to watch it now though, Kev, after your ringing endorsement