Hi there.

I have been playing LFS for two or three weeks now and I basically like it more than any other (so-called) racing sim I've ever played, but of course you can't satisfy everyone's needs, and therefore I would also change some things if I could.


I know many - if not most - want even more sophisticated options added to the game's setup-section, but I think less could be more. Why not have some cars that can't be adjusted at all? Drive what you get. Or just minor adjustments to fit it to your driving style (brake bias/power, rollbars for general under- or oversteering, maybe gearing)?

You may ask yourself why I have such a strange idea. Now here's the background:

I still like the combo XFG/Blackwood the most, and I did lap after lap. I tweaked my setup and the setup felt good, but still I couldn't get below 1:36. Yeah. Sometimes not even below 1:37. Ok, I thought, be true to yourself: you just suck / have to practice more. On the other hand LFS is said to be very realistic, and I'm quite a fast guy in RL, kind of a natural but without the bite to get damn good .
Anyway, in LFS I was slower mid-field all the time... and I often thought why the faster dudes are faster although their driving style actually wouldn't be that rewarding (to put it nicely) in RL.
... and then I downloaded a set from Inferno yesterday. Bang, mid 1:34 in the second lap. Two freaking seconds!!!


So, to finally come to an end: Is LFS thought to be a RACING or an ENGINEERING sim?? How many RL racers in the big series would be able to set up their cars decently on their own?
Why not keep it down to driving only... at least for some cars (street cars).

Give me/us a chance to compete in driving!

I'd be willing to bet that the other setup simply didn't suit you. Either that or it was REALLY bad.

Because not everyone is a good engineer there is the possibility to share sets on the server and there are sites like Team Inferno who offer setups.

But a "forced setup" option for special races/servers would be cool.

I think at some stage the setup options are going to have to be limited to what is realistic for a certain car. At the moment the road cars in LFS seem to have a bit of an identity crisis, full race suspension, and a choice of gear ratios that an F1 team would love to be able to have all on a Mini...

The problem is the cars we're currently driving are far more satisfying to drive but they're racing cars that aesthetically look like road cars, I rather hope LFS decides to lose all the standard road car look and feel at some stage, IMO stripped out cars and rollcages would make LFS look a far more convincing to those who already doubt it from other parts of the racing sim community and for gods sake that spare wheel needs to come off the LX4 :doh:

Quote from Nobo :

Because not everyone is a good engineer there is the possibility to share sets on the server and there are sites like Team Inferno who offer setups.

but still you wouldn't know if the setup or the driver had won. that's only possible with the same setup. I thought about forced setups too, but that's a bit like "I have a nice setup here, and I hope it doesn't suit any of the other drivers."

I kinda agree with the OP. If you have ever tried out one of the WR sets, you realize that racing like that in RL is simply not possible and not recommended.

Setups are a great thing but the road cars DO have too much adjustability for what they are.
My only concern in having a standard set for those cars is different tracks. It is close to impossible to use the same set on AS and on SO, for example, as those two tracks are inherently different. This could be solved by having different forced sets for individual tracks.

So all in all +1 for limiting setting options on road cars.

-1 its bad for drift

You want to ban setup's from a few cars because you can't go as fast as the WR? Oookey. I think someone need's their cookie.

racing is not all driving, car setup plays a big part.

What cars do you race in real life?

If anything, I would want to tweaks possible.

We are not talking about race car setups. Only roadcars. Of course you need to be able to change everything on the GTR's and SS but not on TBO's and lower classes.

Limiting the settings on roadcars to simple tweaks (something realistic to real life) would make racing those more exciting for me IMO.

@Dalarna
Have you ever tried to race with the WR set? If so, you must have noticed that the car is completly unsuitable for racing and can do no more then 1-2 laps before falling apart.
By liming setups in this case, it would make things a lot more realistic in terms of racing.

Quote from ajp71 :

I think at some stage the setup options are going to have to be limited to what is realistic for a certain car. At the moment the road cars in LFS seem to have a bit of an identity crisis, full race suspension, and a choice of gear ratios that an F1 team would love to be able to have all on a Mini...

The problem is the cars we're currently driving are far more satisfying to drive but they're racing cars that aesthetically look like road cars, I rather hope LFS decides to lose all the standard road car look and feel at some stage, IMO stripped out cars and rollcages would make LFS look a far more convincing to those who already doubt it from other parts of the racing sim community and for gods sake that spare wheel needs to come off the LX4 :doh:

I agree about the identity crisis. They could keep the road variants, and give few setup options, like tyre pressures, and groupN'ify the current road cars to the extent they would be modified for racing in real life. It wouldn't mean all the current road cars would have to run on slicks, or come anywhere near the GTR versions or anything like that, they'd stay very similar to what we have now, plus we'd have the fun of pitchy and rolly true road cars.

That'll take away many strategy and fun of racing

I'm hardly a engineer but I read the LFS maneul and was able to figure out how exactly setups work.

While it is a racing sim, having different setups=having different racing style and a more realistic competition.

Plus setups is partically what makes oval racing really exciting and exclusive. I wouldn't want to see noobs draft with me, it'll cause a major disaster

-1

Quote from Dalarna :

You want to ban setup's from a few cars because you can't go as fast as the WR? Oookey. I think someone need's their cookie.

sure YOU don't want to limit the street-cars' setups... because you only have these.

Quote from Bandit77 :

but still you wouldn't know if the setup or the driver had won. that's only possible with the same setup. I thought about forced setups too, but that's a bit like "I have a nice setup here, and I hope it doesn't suit any of the other drivers."

Well, a lot of fast drivers just send they're sets if you ask them nicely. Then you can always edit it to suit you're own driving style. At least the base is good then.

Quote from Bandit77 :

sure YOU don't want to limit the street-cars' setups... because you only have these.

I would manage just as good if I wouldn't have as much settings, as long as I could race in my way and drift every now and then.

It's your reason I don't like, you say that because someone make's a better set then you and get better times because they know a lot more then you about making a good set you think they should ban some settings. I suggest you start reading a little about making a good set and train more instead of taking everyone else down to your level.

Well, in RL, once you get out of the lower leagues/divisions, drivers don't know a ton about car setup. They run their laps, come in and tell their engineer/crew chief how the car is handling, and they take it from there, send the driver back out and wait for feedback.

I agree that the road cars are too adustable. You frankly would never find a car like that with a non-stock adjustable transmission that still had that slow-assed motor in it. (maybe some little ricer with no clue about cars....but no real racer)

For the road cars it should really be like tire type, pressure, maybe toe-in/camber, since its pretty easy to find those kits for most street cars. Springs are stretching it a little (unless we can "cut" them ... ) The transmission changes are REALLY out there.

I would be happy with forced setups. There are alot of leagues in RL that force setups, so let the server force the setup. Then it becomes a DRIVERS race, not an equipment race, and is imho, much more interesting and a better indicator of a better driver.

Quote from rjm1982 :

Then it becomes a DRIVERS race, not an equipment race, and is imho, much more interesting and a better indicator of a better driver.

But then it's not realistic, it's not like every racer in the whole world drives the exact same car with the exact same setup. That is just wrong.

Quote from Dalarna :

But then it's not realistic, it's not like every racer in the whole world drives the exact same car with the exact same setup. That is just wrong.

I love how you left the previous sentence out of that. There are plenty of RL leagues/events that force setups on the cars. The Kart league I raced in last year only allowed tire pressure and compound changes. IROC doesnt allow any changes. When it comes to autocross, there are a lot of "street stock" classes that allow nothing more than tire pressure changes...

It, in fact, IS realistic.

Quote from rjm1982 :

I love how you left the previous sentence out of that. There are plenty of RL leagues/events that force setups on the cars. The Kart league I raced in last year only allowed tire pressure and compound changes. IROC doesnt allow any changes. When it comes to autocross, there are a lot of "street stock" classes that allow nothing more than tire pressure changes...

It, in fact, IS realistic.

Yea, a couple of series does it. The rest don't. So I don't see how you can say that it's realistic that you ban personal settings total on those cars. I would agree to LFS-servers be able to set a preset setting, but not ban personal settings on all servers at all times. Then it takes a way a critical aspect of LFS.
A setting could make such a difference that it's a difference between first and last place between two different settings and that is the way it should be.

If you are good, the car probably runs good. If you are not that good, you have to practice and learn until you get good or get help.
So just because the thread-maker can't run WR's with his setting we should ban settings overall? No.
Learn to make a good set or take one from Team Inferno. Maybe even ask a racer on a server and you might get a good set.

Practice makes perfect.

Quote from Dalarna :

A setting could make such a difference that it's a difference between first and last place between two different settings and that is the way it should be.

for me, this takes the fun out of DRIVING. that's my point.

it's like driving a 911 and take the piss of a boxter at the traffic lights. if these things make you happy, so be it.

I could even put my "wish" in another way, not to destroy your experience with the game the way it is:

What about ADDING a handful of cars modelled after production cars?
And yes, those cars are raced.

Quote from Bandit77 :

for me, this takes the fun out of DRIVING. that's my point.

it's like driving a 911 and take the piss of a boxter at the traffic lights. if these things make you happy, so be it.

I could even put my "wish" in another way, not to destroy your experience with the game the way it is:

What about ADDING a handful of cars modelled after production cars?
And yes, those cars are raced.

It is the way of life.
Some people know what they are doing and produce good settings, some people have no idea what they are doing and they can't create settings at all. Their loss.
And the fun of driving ain't ruined, you can take a WR-set and still not drive WR's with it if don't know what you are doing. If you drive like shit, you drive like shit.

People with better sets know what they are doing and should get "payed" for that, they shouldn't be "dragged down" because you think they drive to fast with their personal settings.

LFS is a racing simulator. Not everyone drives the same set and cars, some series do force settings but not all do. It's a minority that do. Different drivers have different driving styles and this means they need different settings to drive their absolute best, and this is the way LFS should be and it is.

Quote from Dalarna :

It is the way of life.
Some people know what they are doing and produce good settings, some people have no idea what they are doing and they can't create settings at all. Their loss.
And the fun of driving ain't ruined, you can take a WR-set and still not drive WR's with it if don't know what you are doing. If you drive like shit, you drive like shit.

People with better sets know what they are doing and should get "payed" for that, they shouldn't be "dragged down" because you think they drive to fast with their personal settings.

LFS is a racing simulator. Not everyone drives the same set and cars, some series do force settings but not all do. It's a minority that do. Different drivers have different driving styles and this means they need different settings to drive their absolute best, and this is the way LFS should be and it is.

I think you're missing his point (which rjm said before: "There are alot of leagues in RL that force setups, so let the server force the setup. "). He's not proposing removing intricate setups from the games completely, but rather to have a checkbox that server creators can check that says "drivers may only have this specific setup on this server". Obviously you would never go on those servers, but having the choice to go on a setup-restricted server or an unrestricted server would be nice for me and others in this thread. You'd still get to both engineer your setup and race with it, while those of us without the patience and/or talant to do so could race with a setup given to us by the server.

LFS is essentially two seperate games. A setup game, and a driving game. It would be very nice for myself and several others in this thread if we didn't have to be good at the setup game to be successful in the driving game.

I think the road cars should be limmited to tyre type/pressure, toe in camber/castor and a fue simple adjustments to the weight distrebution in the car. nothing advanced.

It wouldent take away the strategy at all because the strategy of road car racing is all in the fuel and pitting strat.

Plus I wouldent mind seeing how these other demo drivers stand up with a bone stock car. I set my XRT up with all the stock settings once, and the car drove completely different, it lugged around the track like a real stock car would. It would make it so that you have to get used to the car more than set it up for your style. Meaning you actualy have to LEARN to drive the car.

Quote from Dalarna :

LFS is a racing simulator. Not everyone drives the same set and cars, some series do force settings but not all do. It's a minority that do.

How does it matter what series allow modifications/setups? We are talking about road cars. Like you said, it's racing simulator. With road cars, it's about simulating racing with road cars, NOT race modified road cars. It shouldn't simulate things (settings) that aren't practically possible in real life in normal non-modified road car. So I'm also for limiting aggressively road cars setups. The road cars has no character in handling because you make them drive how you want and not how the factory wanted. If some car is pain in the ass to drive by nature, then it should be that way.

I agree that the road cars are far too adjustable. Not only is it unfeasible for a car to be so adjustable, almost all series' that race road cars limit modifications to keep costs down, so varying gearboxes would definitely be out of the question.

One way of getting round not having adjustable gearboxes would be different sized wheels. Smaller wheels (say, 14") for low speed tracks where acceleration is key, bigger wheels (17"?) for high speed tracks. It's something that occurs in real life and it adds a little variety.