Maybe I've missed the suggestion, or maybe it's already available with the S2 license, but a car much like the 1st generation Mazda Miata.. small, lightweight RWD roadster with, a small displacement, low output, smooth revving powerplant.

Something like an MX5 on road tires would make a good addition, fast enough to be competitive with the XRT/FXO/LX4, but still very controlable and raceable, personally I've never been convinced with the XRT, it's far too tail happy.

Quote from ajp71 :

Something like an MX5 on road tires would make a good addition, fast enough to be competitive with the XRT/FXO/LX4, but still very controlable and raceable, personally I've never been convinced with the XRT, it's far too tail happy.

It'd take a much-faster-than-your-average MX5 to keep up with the LX4 and TBO cars.

To hell with classes anyway I say, the ones we have don't work. Don't compromise any more new cars by forcing them into "classes". One-model racing is just as much fun.

Rac?

Well RAC in LFS is of a different spec to the one they've made anyway. 02/03 car has 228bhp, and the 05 one has 268bhp. LFS RA has 245bhp.

Anyone remember why it's different?

Yeah, I myself don't want an LX4 competitive Miata - that's not a Miata. I want lightweight, low HP, high grip, perfectly balanced, RWD roadster fun. Maybe a hotrod "Miata" for those that want it, but... I also agree, racing one type of car in races is fine, though it would be neat to race a few different classes in say, an enduro type event.

Yeah LX4 outruns the TBO class overall anyways. I don't even think the Miata could have a decent competitor with any of the cars. I'm pretty sure it could out run the XF and GT, but maybe if the 'miata' had a lack of power or something it would be decent.

I watched all sorts of classes of Miatas race at Laguna Seca, and they are really great cars. Also when I goto Auto-X events, they are top in that area too

That's why I want one. (other than owning one ) Even if it had to run with only "Miata's", it'd have to be killer fun. I know it's a completely different game, but my favorite race on Granturismo 3 was the 2 hour enduro with stock Miata's. All you could change was tire compounds and which edition of the car you drove. I always ran the lowest HP edition and "crappier" tires, so I would run equal with the pack, and pitting had to be strategically timed. I want that, with all the nuances of LFS! Of course there could be a hotter, "Mazdaspeed" version that might be competitive with some other cars in the game, I'm not really sure there, I'm still S1 and a n00b.

Maybe a Toyota MR2 would be about the same speed, although there wonderful low speed handling, making them brilliant road/rally cars is totally lost on them in terms of high speed stability, making them inappropriate for racing in standard trim.

Quote from sinbad :

To hell with classes anyway I say, the ones we have don't work. Don't compromise any more new cars by forcing them into "classes". One-model racing is just as much fun.

I agree that not everything need run at the same speed, but they can still race together using a handicap system, look at the 750 MC Birkett 6 hour relay at Silverstone each year, 3-6 car teams race against each other for six hours. The grid ranges from sevral Austin Seven and a Frazer Nash team to Radicals, Caterhams and Mallocks with all the usual club racing suspects in between. This year it was one by a team of MGs, although the star of the show was Baby Bertha (Gerry Marshall's small block powered Vauxhaul touring car).

2004 pictures - http://www.racedayimages.co.uk/2004/301004/index.html
2005 pictures (not quite sure about the Surtees Formula 1 car at the top ) - http://www.paulsands.org/sil291005/6hr/birkett6.html

Quote from ajp71 :

Maybe a Toyota MR2 would be about the same speed, although there wonderful low speed handling, making them brilliant road/rally cars is totally lost on them in terms of high speed stability, making them inappropriate for racing in standard trim.

eh, why on earth would you think they're unstable at high speed? The MX-5 is designed to handle at it's best at 60mph but it's perfectly capable up to and over 100mph.

Obviously, I'd love an MX-5/Miata in LFS and I think the only problem would be the lack of power which is a bit frustrating on track, and would make some of the bigger circuits in LFS incredibly dull. On the other hand, the autotests would be fantastic fun

I was really hoping the RaceAbout would recreate some of handling qualities of a well built roadster. At the moment it's some way off that, unfortunately, but I suspect that will improve significantly as LFS evolves.

Quote from durbster :

eh, why on earth would you think they're unstable at high speed? The MX-5 is designed to handle at it's best at 60mph but it's perfectly capable up to and over 100mph.

The comment was about the Toyota MR2s. The 750 MC ran a new championship for them this year and at Mallory every car in a 10 car grid managed to spin under braking for Gerrards (the fastest point on the circuit) at least twice. It may have been that the way they were designed they were getting unsettled on one bump or particular condition only found on the turn in to Gerrads, but my guess would be that that is not the case. These were standard MR2s so I'm sure that with a bit of sorting out the setup could be changed to suit faster cicuits. This would be a problem though if in S3 (like I hope it does) there is at least a server option to limit setups to what really can be changed, which on a standard MR2 would be absolutley nothing except little things like competition pads, safety modifications (so a bit of added strength from a cage).

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/MR2Challenge1.html

Ah I see, I figured you meant the later MR2s or MX-5s. Yes the mk1 and mk2 MR2s handle like water balloons, I wouldn't even consider putting them in LFS. The last generation MR2s are brilliant, however, it's just a shame Toyota made them look like Lego cars and forgot to put any luggage space in them.

The mk2 MR2 was a complete disaster, but the mk1 MR2 was a (and still us) a very highly rated road car, not particuarly fast but handled beatifully at B road speeds. Lots of people had been asking why aren't there more of them racing in near standard spec, seeing as you can run them for stock hatch money, they're cheap, reliable and at road speeds very well handling little sports cars, when they put 10 of them in a race that question was soon answered

I'd love to see all three gen's of MR2's in the game, but yes, specifically the first and third. Both great handling little cars - though it's obvious what styling Toyota was "copying" with the last one..

No idea how many people look on the Leagues and Events forum, but I've posted a suggestion there for a system of handicap racing like I described in my post above.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3877

Yeah, handicaps could work out great. Of course my expierience is it can still be pretty hard to make handicaps work very well in a game-racing environment, but who wants things too easy, haha. Good idea for the big 3 to possibly toss around and see what they might come up with, at some point.

The suggestion is really for a set of event, it would be easy for LFS to calculate a handicap at the end of a race, but in essence this type of race will only really work as an organised event.

Sounds like a good idea for S3

Back to the Miata...i always found the XR GT to be pretty damn close
both in specs and handling to the 2nd gen Miata The only 'main'
difference being it's size, the XR GT is longer, taller, and probably a bit
wider. LFS spreads the weight within the 'volume' of the body i think
so that may cause some weight shifting differences. Apart from that,
they are very close imo.

Maybe but it doesn't handle anything like an MX5 should.

Quote from ajp71 :

Maybe but it doesn't handle anything like an MX5 should.

at all..

I'd like to see a little roadster for S3. The RAC is fun but completely crazy
I think if an MX5-like roadster could be included which is competitive with the XRGT and XFGTi, us guys who don't mind racing slowly could have some good battles
But then, the devs have received so many requests for new cars I wouldn't blame them if they're having trouble deciding whether to include one at all..oh well! Here's hoping.
:drink: Happy Festivus all!

I love slower racing, I think I might actually prefer it most of the time, haha. If they went with a 1st generation type, there's a few HP ratings they could choose from too, starting @ 102.. I could be wrong, but that might be pretty competitive with the XFGTi, and maybe an upper "Mazdaspeed" type version to compete with the XR GT Turbo or somthing. Personally I'm really after the lower HP version though.. High grip, balanced handling, low HP, lightweight roadster fun. They'd be a real blast, esecially on smaller, tighter tracks.

Quote from ajp71 :

Maybe but it doesn't handle anything like an MX5 should.

I'm not sure why you feel this way. I drive a 2nd gen Miata LS from time
to time, i have it right now (looks outside, mmmmmmmiata ) and i find
it's pretty damn close. Subjective rating is nothing but, well, subjective.
Go do some tests and compare performance result and it's pretty damn
close. The turn-in is there, the 'just enough power not to get out of hand'
is very similar too. The main difference imo is the delivery of power. A
2nd gen Miata feels much more peaky, like a Honda.

for starters, a Miata isn't anywhere near as tail-happy in a turn. (I find the XRGT can be pretty easily myself) have you taken it to a parking lot and played? (at least not a 1st gen.., so that may very well be the discrepency here) I'm not sure exactly how the modeling works either, but a 2100lb'ish car will amost always feel a good bit different than a 2600lb'ish car. 4-500lbs makes a pretty noticeable difference when you get down to those weights and size powerplants, as does a car being wider/longer/taller. again, I'm compairing to my 1st gen, as I think it's overall simplicity would suit the game better. after noting some specs, maybe the 118 or 128hp variant would be a good competitor to the XFGTi. due to weight and whatnot, one of those might fair pretty fun against an XRGT too.. (slightly lower hp/weight vs. bigger/heavier etc)