I also find that some tracks are simply horrible to drive on. Especially when they use ISI trademark sine wave bumps. I modified my terrain.tdf so these crappy unrealistic bumps are turned off. On tracks that have their own tdf, I tend to turn hem off as well.

Also, some tracks have ''grip zones'', often overdone. Then there are many tracks that simply don't have proper transitions in road camber..

The difference is staggering between a bad and a good track, not just in the 'nature' of the track. At the Ring for example you bounce all over the place over the sine wave bumps and big polygons. At Barcelona you have aaaaaaaaaaages to slowly smoothly drive it..

At the moment I love Road Atlanta by Uzzi. Snetterton 06 is alright, though some parts have a deliberatly 'gripless' outside of corners.

Good tracks in rFactor are few and far between.

Snetts nice, just a shame the Bombhole is completely wrong, but that'll only bother you if you know it. Lakeside, Oldring and all the 88 tracks are nice, especially Spa

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

I also find that some tracks are simply horrible to drive on. Especially when they use ISI trademark sine wave bumps. I modified my terrain.tdf so these crappy unrealistic bumps are turned off. On tracks that have their own tdf, I tend to turn hem off as well.

Also, some tracks have ''grip zones'', often overdone. Then there are many tracks that simply don't have proper transitions in road camber..

The difference is staggering between a bad and a good track, not just in the 'nature' of the track. At the Ring for example you bounce all over the place over the sine wave bumps and big polygons. At Barcelona you have aaaaaaaaaaages to slowly smoothly drive it..

At the moment I love Road Atlanta by Uzzi. Snetterton 06 is alright, though some parts have a deliberatly 'gripless' outside of corners.

Good tracks in rFactor are few and far between.

I find also those grass/sand areas rather bad in most tracks, you can corner real hard and slip to grass, no problem at all, just keep it floored, in reality grass is ROUGH and has not grip at all compared to tarmac.

Also edge of tarmac is higher than grass, so if your tire is on grass getting it back to tarmac should cause quite big bump.

All kind of small things that are possible are often not thought when making track.

Of course making track is not very simple, without inner/center/outer measurements of track it is quite bit of guesswork really.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

At the moment I love Road Atlanta by Uzzi. Snetterton 06 is alright, though some parts have a deliberatly 'gripless' outside of corners.

Yeah, this is a great project. I'm hoping he nails the elevations in the final version.

I'll be going there early next month for the Petit Le Mans... so excited.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Good tracks in rFactor are few and far between.

I've only found a handful of tracks that I consider to be worth keeping. At the moment, the only tracks I have installed are:

Varano
Goldenport
OLDRing
EMG_Hungary
Virtua_LM_LeMans
Toban
Mills

and I've made edits to most of these, including some TDF changes to reduce some track surface undulations per Niels' post above and changes to the lighting in the GDB files to reduce the oversaturated cartoony look that rFactor suffers from.

Varano is my track of choice, OLDRing has a good variety of corners and some nice bumpy areas in braking zones to keep things interesting, Goldenport is so well done that I load it up occasionally to admire the craftsmanship even though it's not a great driving track and Virtua_LM_LeMans is simply a work of art even though the track surface modeling takes away some of the driving fun. Toban and Mills are surprisingly well done considering the relatively poor quality of the content created by ISI in house.

After driving this a bit more I must say I like this although few things bug me a bit. It must be said, though, the C6 is hawt with the cheapo tires! The only things that concern me are the almost lack of lift-off oversteer and the whistling sound. The lift-off oversteer, when I force it to happen, is always transformed into understeer, it just seems to be impossible to rotate the car with lifting throttle without (on purpose) totally overdoing it with drift-alike extremely snappy inputs. To be honest, this is pretty much the same what I get in Gran turismo 4 with the corvette. And me not likes it. Of course with power it is possible to power slide the car around but how do you expect a finnish driver to be able to drive the C6 without being able to fully use the scandinavian flick scabadoo technic . In all seriousness I would not expect a 400hp to be so resistant to lift-off oversteer. Maybe there might be some values to be tweaked or researched about the body roll and body inertias around the longitudinal axis of the car...? Or the rear differential... Or maybe that is just how it is supposed to be...

In the end, the car feels a bit too easy to drive because it is so hard to spin and the car doesn't really punish for bad inputs, at least not enough imho . But it tells really well what is going on which is really awesome for an rfactor car, for me.

About the sounds, Niels, have you tried to use (totally) different sound samples to see if they produce the same whistle effect? Or if you replaced some other mod's sounds with the C6 sounds to see if the problem is elsewhere? I have no idea what is needed to be edited to create those engine sound files but I'd check if there are maybe dots in wrong places or some other standard gear whines or intake sounds making the whistling...

Looking from the www.chevrolet.com/corvette site I see that the coupe (2007...) corvettes come with "Active Handling System" and "Magnetic Selective Ride Control". I hope that these aren't included with the rf version .

Aaand what about adding the performance package :
performance-oriented package for the Gymkhana/Autocross enthusiast; includes extra cooling, stiffer springs and stabilizer bars, specific shock absorbers, larger brakes with cross-drilled rotors, specific tires and Z51-specific 6-speed manual when ordered with 6-speed manual transmission (Z51)

Although I understand that it can be quite hard to find any detailed info...

Good stuff on C6

sorry for the OT Niels but i'd very much like to know if there's a known reason for the enormous "controller lag" rf seems to suffer from. a completely fresh install of rf with only the new C6 and latest realfeel installed and veeery low gfx settings to ensure high fps it just isn't right. i can deal with most of rf´s faults ok but after taking a serious session with the C6 i get the impression that it's pretty much impossible to drive the car on the limit with any precision. things that i hear, see and feel just don't sync. it feels like the ffb is 200ms late :/ IIRC you don't use a ffb wheel so you might have faster feedback?

great experience nevertheless, just curious.

With 60fps I notice less lag, also tricks in readme of C6 does help, but there is lag that is sure, don't know how much different wheel effects to it, but with dfp there is quite a lot, with more than 400-450 steering there seem to be lot more for some odd reason.

But I have noticed steering lag with LFS too with my dfp, too much for my liking, can't even think how I managed with gameport version of MSFFB wheel before this as when I got USB version of that it really felt lot faster, then dfp and it again felt lot faster, next step is g25, sometime in future.

Quote from kompa :

sorry for the OT Niels but i'd very much like to know if there's a known reason for the enormous "controller lag"

In the controller.ini file located in rFactor\UserData\<USERNAME>, make sure 'Fixed Rate Inputs' is set to "1". This puts the controller input processing into a separate thread which polls the controller at a fixed rate of 100Hz and should improve the steering latency you describe.

thanks! fixed rate input was set to 1 in the Chevy C6 Player controller.ini. i installed atitool and the default setting for flip queue size was zero so i left it running, just made sure there was no aa/af or other settings being applied. launched rf and went to barca & briana (longer config with the hills) with lowest possible gfx settings and the lag was pretty much gone. gone as in "not as clean & smooth as LFS but not delayed either". FPS peaked at about 70 while the lowest remained at 45 driving past the pits at barca. a few stutters here and there but most notably on a few occasions when suddenly flooring the throttle from slow speeds on 2nd gear. whenever i went crazy with the car it seemed to result in a few stutters. i tried changing flip queue to 3 but it seemed to be fine still...don't know what to think really. i don't know how rf does these things but is it measuring cpu performance and then dynamically scaling the rate at which the physics are calculated? i wasn't able to produce any lift oversteer too, seemed to result in understeer if anything. took so long to post because i was enjoying myself, thank you Niels & some1!

just for comparison i can't get below 100 fps on SO1 with full settings but no aa/af.

Add the new Nordschleife 2007 by Team rf-nordschleife.de to the list of rFactor track mods that are keepers. I've only spent an hour with it so far but this is the first representation of the Nordschleife I've seen that actually feels like a real place. And joy, curves are actually curves, not just connected straight line segments and the resolution of the track surface mesh is fine enough that the track actually seems to flow and undulate over the terrain. Very nice.

Hyper,
lift off oversteer is a good question.. What happens in a real car I don't quite know.. What causes lift off oversteer.. It confuses me. The weight transfer has two effects. A light side needs less lateral force before it starts to slide, but a heavy side has relatively a bit less grip due to load sensitivity. However, really, not much is happening when you let go of the throttle; its not like that causes significant 'braking G force' to my knowledge. The other thing is engine braking. Of course I could increase that so the tyres get a bit more longitudinal forces, leaving less lateral force to work with. But how much engine braking does it have.. I'm not sure if you'd really notice it a lot in a 50/50 weight distribution car that has no uber compression big engine that locks the rears as you let go of the throttle.. (any info on this would be appreciated) The c6 is likely to already have the performance springs; I found a few wheelrates and picked the highest ones.


About the new Ring, I 'found' a beta (only a few days old) which has a few issues, very likely still being in the release. Split times don't match. When I manage an 8:15 in the 'stock' corvette, just as a german magazine managed in their review, the first sector I'm 4.5 seconds too slow, and from the lowest point up to the hohe acht I make up 3.5ish seconds. Sure the car isn't perfect and the track isn't perfect but loosing 4.5 seconds in about 2 minutes is .. a lot.

And why on earth would you model the karrussel as sine wave bumps over a smooth 3d mesh? Rough mesh! that is exactly the karussell.. They very much overdid the sine wave bumps in my opinion, so it might be very much impossible to even get a 8:15 with the normal version. Some places still don't have the right layout, some elevation changes are either too great or too small (jump at flugplatz gives away its GPL track origins..)

However, when the TDF file is changed, and you ignore the few obviously bad bits, there is an 80% smooth and fairly realistic Ring to drive, which is a big step forward

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

About the new Ring, I 'found' a beta (only a few days old) which has a few issues, very likely still being in the release. Split times don't match. When I manage an 8:15 in the 'stock' corvette, just as a german magazine managed in their review, the first sector I'm 4.5 seconds too slow, and from the lowest point up to the hohe acht I make up 3.5ish seconds. Sure the car isn't perfect and the track isn't perfect but loosing 4.5 seconds in about 2 minutes is .. a lot.

Yet to try it but to be fair 3.5 seconds isn't much over 13miles, different drivers will be fast in different places and the track and car will never be exactly the same as RL. Much more important than that is that all the previous (non-RacKing) versions of the 'ring were based on the GPL layout, is this one any different? The biggest change since the 60s was Antoniusbrucke has been flattened to the extent it isn't a scary flat kink for the GT cars, and you'll probably find would be near flat in the Corvette. Also note as nicely as it was made the GPL version was made with (IIRC) no GPS and obviously getting accurate information on a 30 year old track isn't easy.

Oh and are the framerates still reasonable in the new version?

I don't know if rFactor models transmission losses in engine braking situation, there can easily be 18% less engine braking because of that then.

I have once lost tail (on race track) when lifted on wrong place, but again completely different car (engine braking was almost like in diesel, at winter I could kick tail out only by turning and lifting off when on 2nd gear), but it is one big no no when doing max G forces at apex, sudden lift off can cut tail loose, imo, but if done gently not so likely. Also should be low gear problem only and I'm not sure how Vette should act in such situation, I don't know if Vette has girly engine braking of Focus and I can't remember how tall gears were (I'm too lazy to check).

Car I spoke had 2nd Gear 2.36:1, Diff 3.36:1 and Tire radius of 288.8, transmission losses around 18%(guestimate), engine max revs 6200.

If your tail is out a bit and you lift off car should kick tail quite violently to opposite direction, less slide more kick, until after some angle tail would just continue sliding when lifted off. However this is something I don't get with tires, I can get this behaviour, but then I get spin of doom, or then I loose lift off behaviour and have more reasonable handling overall.

The RX-7 I drive has quite a violent lift-off oversteer, and also will lock the rear tires (not lock them per se. but they will brake to the extent of losing traction) is I downshoft too soon. The lift-off feels like the outside front 'digs in' and the rear goes light. However, in a track situation the outside front often as not overloads when I lift off, and the front wash out, just like the C6 does. I'd say it feels pretty good.

I've noticed a slight graphical flaw. Turned down player detail from full to high whilst fps hunting and found that the brake lights no longer showed correctly.

Hey Niels! ur car just made me to buy rfactor today its really really awesome! Like Jeremy would say " Astonishing"
We hope u have other car coming later

Yeah, Niels, do we have another car coming? *ahem*

@Ian
There goes my dream of creating a STCC mod for rFactor...

On Topic: The car looks stunning, already downloaded it.

Quote from atledreier :

Yeah, Niels, do we have another car coming? *ahem*

What about a proper Caterham CSR260?

Quote from Hyperactive :

What about a proper Caterham CSR260?

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Caterham

I haven't had much time to try this version but it was developed in conjunction with the Kangloosh suspension tool and had a heavy emphasis put on the physics, and judging by the not at all bad original it'll be a very good mod.

For those of you that haven't taken the plunge and tried this mod yet, here's a little trackside and onboard action from Goldport...

C6 vid, 20ish Mb

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

About the new Ring, I 'found' a beta (only a few days old) which has a few issues, very likely still being in the release. Split times don't match. When I manage an 8:15 in the 'stock' corvette, just as a german magazine managed in their review, the first sector I'm 4.5 seconds too slow, and from the lowest point up to the hohe acht I make up 3.5ish seconds. Sure the car isn't perfect and the track isn't perfect but loosing 4.5 seconds in about 2 minutes is .. a lot.

Just one thing crossed my mind, are you sure the splits are set in the correct places?

Quote :

And why on earth would you model the karrussel as sine wave bumps over a smooth 3d mesh? Rough mesh! that is exactly the karussell.. They very much overdid the sine wave bumps in my opinion, so it might be very much impossible to even get a 8:15 with the normal version. Some places still don't have the right layout, some elevation changes are either too great or too small (jump at flugplatz gives away its GPL track origins..)

I missed the Karussell because I took the new short layout, which leads me to the question, does any know anything about this layout? I've seen it marked on a few maps but never actually heard of it being used.

The track itself has obviously had a huge make over, looks really nice and the modelling of the curves and so on has finally been brought up to standard and is smooth and free of the bumps of the previous version. Although it is clearly still based on the GPL layout Antoniusbrucke has finally been changed into the modern day flat kink rather than the scary 60s crest, which was fun but seemed a bit silly with modern graphics.

I really love the Autumn version, it feels sinister and the damp look and lower grip is done well, not like the ridiculous leaves on the track at the original Cadwell, basically random patches of ice that completely ruined the track.

hm i tried it for a bit last night and tbh it did feel wrong
what i found strange was mostly 2 things

1) the car has some tremendous grip on power while its not sliding ... its almost impossible for me to get it into a slide just on the power
and on the rare occasions that it did work out i never got any confidence in balancing it on the throttle ... dunno maybe im just rubbish at driving it
btw the fact that realfeel felt to be about half a second behind the on screen action at all times didnt help either

2) for some reason under braking the tyres dont have any bite
in fact if i got it sideways under braking (which happened a lot) and let go off the brakes to make the car turn it just didnt ... it felt like it went on straight ahead with no interest in going through the turn

and lastly there was the obvious problem i allways had with rfactor or rather with isi physics which is that the cars feel weightless ... a 3 ton isi vehicle generally feels lighter to me than a 500kg lx


please dont get me wrong it was easily the best drive i ever had in any isi game but it wasnt quite there

Quote from Shotglass :

2) for some reason under braking the tyres dont have any bite
in fact if i got it sideways under braking (which happened a lot) and let go off the brakes to make the car turn it just didnt ... it felt like it went on straight ahead with no interest in going through the turn

Well assuming the wheels aren't locked won't releasing the brake transfer weight rearward (or at least stop it from shifting forward) which would reduce the grip available to the front wheels.

Quote :

and lastly there was the obvious problem i allways had with rfactor or rather with isi physics which is that the cars feel weightless ... a 3 ton isi vehicle generally feels lighter to me than a 500kg lx

Odd to me it feels like when I drive it a bit like you described, which is how I'd expect a heavy standard road car to behave. I wonder if the track day suspension would make the car behave more like you were expecting it to (I haven't tried it).

As for realfeel lag what framerates are you getting I haven't noticed much lag with it TBH. I know what your saying though about something not quite being right, LFS still has an edge, I can't really fault this car, apart from the seeming absolute lack of lift off oversteer (but then again I haven't driven many Corvettes IRL), there is something just not quite there.