Just read the thread in the genral section and have a few Qs people might want to discuss I was tempted to post in this thread but thought it better here.

not aimed at any staff ect just interested what peoples opinions are.


http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=30595

Anyway I think its worth a mention, that as new players buy S2 licences they will probably be joining a CTRA server soon after, now only race 1 is open to ctra virgins apart for the B&J &sSS or course , but for whatever reason it seems (from what Ive read) the standards in R1 are sometimes shall we say below par. This got me thinking and I wonder if this is partly because;
The system is working and all the slowest, zig-zaggy, KB using players who can race only in this server, and progress so slowly thats where they stay, zig-zagging into new users when they do first join the servers, giving a bad experiance the the newcomers.

or maybe the player base CTRA is aimed at, is reaching capacity, meaning the "more experioanced" players and those migrated from the original STCC system, have high enough licences they have moved away to either SS or B&J or just the next tier up?

Is the reporting system too complicated for a "new to LFS" user to understand and complete?

Is the laptime/position based system to hard for players to achieve the next progress point?

I will have to have some races back in R1 server as I havn't experianced any of the stuff posted in the linked thread, I am actually looking forward to it

SD.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=30595

Quote :

but for whatever reason it seems (from what Ive read) the standards in R1 are sometimes shall we say below par.

This true I think everyone is so busy trying to race and its so busy now, no one wants to sit out a race and report for fear of losing a whole nights racing. So the crashers don't get reported as much I don't think. The level of racing is on the decline. I'm so glad I got my silver license now and don't have to go there anymore unless I want to. Which isn't very often!

Quote :

This got me thinking and I wonder if this is partly because;
The system is working and all the slowest, zig-zaggy, KB using players who can race only in this server, and progress so slowly thats where they stay, zig-zagging into new users when they do first join the servers, giving a bad experiance the the newcomers.

Yes I think this true!!

Quote :

Is the reporting system too complicated for a "new to LFS" user to understand and complete?

No just for me! :-)

Quote :

Is the laptime/position based system to hard for players to achieve the next progress point?

Yes you have to start at the front or play for a very long time to progress. If you start from the back you are really lucky to finish a race.

Quote :

I will have to have some races back in R1 server as I havn't experianced any of the stuff posted in the linked thread, I am actually looking forward to it

Have fun

As somebody else more experienced in that thread said, "It was really bad last night [the night the postee highlighted] but it is not normally like that".

Please lets not have this kind of post for no reason. We've only just had the discussion, it drags the servers name through the mud and for what - you havn't even been on the server to see what it is like, and we'll only ever the same thing we always say - which is to report the idiots.

Quote :

If you start from the back you are really lucky to finish a race.

There are some phrases I hear time and time again and this is one of them, when I have heard this phrase in the past i've gone to watch those drivers and thought - FFS what a jerk, he isn't finishing because he cant bloody drive and he's blaming it on the system rather than accepting responsibility for being bloody useless. Please dont be one of those drivers.

One of the other phrases I hear a lot is about points...

To me it's easy to summarise CTRA!

It's far from perfect and there are loads of small things that could be done to instantly improve it.

However, it's by far the best out there right now and having an online career mode is just excellent!

Faults, warts and all, I'd go CTRA! Apart from the HR private server, I play on the CTRA and have done since it reopened!

I would not like to think the CTRA is being dragged through the mud.
far from it, I know from my own experience the higher tier servers are very clean and IMO some of the best races are to be found on the CTRA servers, as I am sure is the case for the other CTRA servers most of the time.

I will be joining the R1 server (possibly using another LFS account) and I will make a point of reporting any who break the rules.

I was just wanting to hear from some of the racers who might have more experiance driving R1 than I do at the moment.

maybe some positive comments? I didn't intend this thread to be a negative one.

If there are some issues that people are having difficultys with, maybe if we can help highlight them, we could help the new LFS'er have a better 1st experiance at the servers.

SD.

Not wanting to be too judgemental, but when I see people who are new to LFS complaining that the racing on a given server is too rough, I wonder whether they're just not experienced enough yet to be able to avoid most of the trouble.

In fairness, any busy server has its fair share of below-par drivers, I don't think the CTRA servers are really any different.

Quote from SparkyDave :

maybe if we can help highlight them, we could help the new LFS'er have a better 1st experiance at the servers.

SD.

If it was me, in the menu, I would add a setup menu in to the CTRA menu system, so the lesser experienced and new participants joining R1 or SS1 can download a good setup as a base to get them started rather than default. This would make things a little easier and certainly more welcoming might also ease crashes

Quote from SparkyDave :

....I wonder if this is partly because;
The system is working and all the slowest, zig-zaggy, KB using players who can race only in this server, and progress so slowly thats where they stay, zig-zagging into new users when they do first join the servers, giving a bad experiance the the newcomers.

or maybe the player base CTRA is aimed at, is reaching capacity, meaning the "more experioanced" players and those migrated from the original STCC system, have high enough licences they have moved away to either SS or B&J or just the next tier up?

I race the Race 1 server, not for the licensing, but because it is the only place you can find races and the only place you can find XFG racing. XFG is what I was into, even though my license is silver. The folks I race with are probably 70% higher than what the server is set for, and most of them are gold and platinum, not even silver as I am.

This is the unfortunate part of the CTRA system. It seems to me that everyone who didn't go to the SS servers are looking for XFG over the TBO class of racing. Then you have a very large difference of silver+ racers and complete beginners, just as you would in any other non-licensed public server.

The TBO server gives me nothing as a silver licensed CTRA racer as I simply do not like that class. I have no where else to go as a silver licensed racer except to move down to the "beginner's" server. Quite possible that many others feel the same.

That all said, I'm not one who would bump and smash my way through the field. If I see someone having troubles, I do stop and attempt to help them out. There are a few others who do this, but the majority just wants them to "get out of my way, noob". You can have great races with those of the same skill/license level, but it gets pretty muddy when you mix the experienced with the beginners.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Not wanting to be too judgemental, but when I see people who are new to LFS complaining that the racing on a given server is too rough, I wonder whether they're just not experienced enough yet to be able to avoid most of the trouble.

In fairness, any busy server has its fair share of below-par drivers, I don't think the CTRA servers are really any different.

This is a good point. I can start in the back, and I often force myself to, and make it through a race just fine. I have the experinece to be able to avoid any "noobish" driving the first few laps, get by them all, and make a good lap with open track midfield to improve my starting spot in the next race. I would think that the many of you veterans can do this just fine. Beginner vs. beginner or beginner vs. noob, it's a different story. Someone will be taken out every time because they don't have the experience to see it is about to happen. Us veterans can anticipate it, and avoid beginner an noobish driving just fine.

Another thing to note is, those of us here on the forum is in great minority to the amount of racers that are out there on the servers. So them without the ability to read these threads, cannot learn from them as the few beginners who do frequent the forum straight off can.

Quote from StableX :

If it was me, in the menu, I would add a setup menu in to the CTRA menu system, so the lesser experienced and new participants joining R1 or SS1 can download a good setup as a base to get them started rather than default. This would make things a little easier and certainly more welcoming might also ease crashes

can't be added instantly - we've already pointed this out to Becky, but theres no way to do it other than sending an email to the CTRA, and even then it's open to abuse.

Quote from Jakg :

can't be added instantly - we've already pointed this out to Becky, but theres no way to do it other than sending an email to the CTRA, and even then it's open to abuse.

you cant have it as a dload ingame like you send someone a setup but it just sends it thru the menu?

Quote :

The TBO server gives me nothing as a silver licensed CTRA racer as I simply do not like that class.

It seems you missed the reshuffle of the higher servers, you actually are not licenced for TBO's.

On the plus side you are licenced for UF1 and GT2 - both of which can be found on Race 2 (at different times, the server shuffles them about).

TBO's are now gold, and GTR's are platinum.

Quote :

there are loads of small things that could be done to instantly improve it.

I have a to do list, some of the things are not all that much work, some are quite a lot of work, all of them come after what I am currently engaged in - which mostly seems to be endlessly running up my telephone bill trying to convince people they want to part with large sums of cash to further our sport, but you'll find out more about that if ever I get anywhere with it.

Becky
How is talking about something that happens, "dragging the servers name through the mud"?
I love CTRA servers and hardly race anywhere but there. Nothing I said was an attack just my observations. I think you guys are doing a great job and should have included a link to one of my earlier posts about reporting drivers. Heres the text:

I like new replay system

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like the new system because I almost wasted the admins time with the wrong race replay. If I didn't have to take a minute to replay it and cool off I would have just sent it and thought it would be looked after. I was wrong. the driver I told I was going to report was right I had the wrong race. I will say that I did have the right racer though and his constant spaming of me there after was a good indication of what he was like. Everyone on the server had to block messages because he wouldn't shut up. I was hoping someone else would report him. I spectated in his car a few times and he is definitly a crasher. I will keep my eyes open for him in the future, seeing as he likes to post crashing videos on You Tube maybe he has a fetish.
Oh well it takes all kinds I guess. I'll just miss two races next time and make sure I save the right replay!!
Rant over for now
__________________

Quote from Becky Rose :

It seems you missed the reshuffle of the higher servers, you actually are not licenced for TBO's.

On the plus side you are licenced for UF1 and GT2 - both of which can be found on Race 2 (at different times, the server shuffles them about).

:doh: Yes, I forgot about the GT2 silver license since Race 2 is rarely ever populated when I'm on....

Becky and I are very busy, at the moment, working on bringing the STCC back up to speed at the very least as a monthly broadcast. You all know that the STCC took a bit of a beating, commitment-wise, both before and also most particularly while Becky developed the CTRA X-System. We have 3 more broadcasts to get out, for Season 1, and then we'll hopefully be in the final planning stages to begin recording Season 2. The really GOOD news, in all of this, is that there WILL be a Season 2. And a Season 3... and on, and on, ad infinitum. There will be a little bit of shuffling at the top.. I'll be giving up my place as a driver, and assuming the job of running the STCC event races on the day. Becky, meanwhile.. well there are some new boots to fill, but we'll bring you up to speed on that at some point a bit later.

We do want to know if there are problems on Race 1. You guys know us well enough to know that, if there's a problem that we can fix, we *will* fix. I'll not deny that the 3 page high wind debate about 2 racing sessions (which could easily have been vote-ended) in 10 days of racing has added some impetus to finding a broader perspective on any given topic

So with that said, and with the understanding that anyone.. literally anyone.. who quite feasibly has never before joined a public server, or has never even run LFS before, can join Race 1.. if there are any problems with the system, we do want to know. What we don't need, and as Kev rightly alluded to, is any "the racing in Race 1 is totally unprofessional, and it's infested with noobs".. cos I can respond easily to that one, right now.. "no shit, sherlock"

Bring on the constructive perspectives and insights. Bear in mind that we can't necessarily solve anything instantly. Not everything can necessarily be solved at all. We're a good few weeks into our launch, so your views on the CTRA system are very welcome. If you guys talk it out, I'm going to listen more than talk. Literally all ears

I have been racing on R1 for the last few weeks off and on. I have not noticed anything really bad. Sure there is that odd driver or two a race that shouldn't be on the track, but it's an entry level server and all skill levels are going to be present.

This has been said before but I will say it again, we, as admins, can only prevent these drivers from racing on the CTRA servers if YOU the driver makes a report. The report process is not intended to be a one click process. In order for us to get accurate and proper reports it needs to be a bit more involved than that. Submitting a report is easy, there is a how-to at the bottom of the CTRA help page.

http://www.raceauthority.com/help.asp

We cannot change people's driving behavior, if you think it stinks the only way to change it is to make a report. This is an excellent system and works great, but only if everyone uses it. Read through the help file, if you still cannot find a way to get rid of the problem racers then come back here and we can talk about it It's not difficult to make a report, take the time to learn the system and it works great. We cannot have a single click reporting proceedure, if we did chances are we would have to review every race if there was a way to do it with one click and most of them would be dismissed. As it is now we dismiss roughly 1/2 the reports already.

This may be seeming to sound harsh, it's not intended if it is. Basically I am saying that your answer to your problem with bad racers is already in place, we can't help that people are not willing to take the time to learn how to operate the system. It's not difficult, you can have a report done up and submitted within 30seconds.

I have been racing on Race 1 at work in tea breaks and lunch breaks over the last few days, and I'll make a couple of points if I may.

There seem to be a portion of the drivers on Race 1 that are VERY aggresive in their driving, this may work IRL, but in LFS with it's bad lag it's not good.

Also, there seems to be a portion of drivers that are clearly either, not experianced enough to race in the CTRA system, or just plan bad, I remember there is a certain percentage of the laptime that needs to be adheared to or the driver is kicked, maybe this percentage needs to be looked at, or a percentage of races completed, yellow flags, blue flags or a compalation of all.

Also, the reporting system, it's not ideal, I am not sure what can be done, but it would be nice to have it cleaned up a little, also, how long does it generally take for the reports to be looked at?, I posted one yesterday lunch time, but it's still pending, is this normal?

Other than that, there is some good racing to be had on Race 1.

I was on Race1 again last night, didn't notice anything untoward apart from maybe a couple of speculative overtakes.

Im my experience with reports/actions, it took about 3 days from submitting to the report being closed. I suppose they have to give the reported at least a chance to explain themselves, and some things would be more clear cut than others.

Also, there seems to be a portion of drivers that are clearly either, not experianced enough to race in the CTRA system, or just plan bad, I remember there is a certain percentage of the laptime that needs to be adheared to or the driver is kicked, maybe this percentage needs to be looked at, or a percentage of races completed, yellow flags, blue flags or a compalation of all.

I wasn't aware of this but would suggest it should be no less than 106%

Quote from danowat :

I remember there is a certain percentage of the laptime that needs to be adheared to or the driver is kicked

I think you may be referring to the points system, where your best lap has to be within 108% of the CTRA lap record for that combo in order to score points. I've never heard of people being kicked for being too slow. That would be absurd on an entry level server.

I joined Race1 yesterday evening when BL GP was on with high wind. I did get the impression that the overall quality of racing was worse than usual. There were a lot of people I'd never or rarely seen before and the racing was noticably less clean in the back pack, but this may not be so unusual. It was probably better in the front, I can't say because I never got there I didn't have fun at all but it was probably a combination of factors rather than just the other drivers. BL is by far my least favorite track in the STD class and the constant high wind wasn't helping much either

I think Race1 may just be suffering a bit from its own popularity. Unfortunately I'm still Bronze for the time being and can't move to a higher tier server

Why would it? just because it's a "beginners" server, it doesn't mean that people with zero pace or experiance can race on it?.

I am 99% sure there was, in the past, a percentage that if someone went under they were kicked and told to practice some more offline.

Quote from danowat :

Why would it? just because it's a "beginners" server, it doesn't mean that people with zero pace or experiance can race on it?.

I am 99% sure there was, in the past, a percentage that if someone went under they were kicked and told to practice some more offline.

There definitely used to be, I think it was 120% of the winners laptime as long as they had done more than one lap or something similar.

I spent some time on R1 last night and have to say it all looked very good not half as bad as I expected

I think kicking for lapping too slow would be a bad idea on this server because any number of things could cause a new player to be very slow from just not knowing where the track goes to controller problems, I dont think this should not stop them being able to participate in the best licenced racing system known to LFS.

I think for newer drivers, actually having one or two aggressive or zig-zaggy players to get past is not such a bad thing, as mrodgers says above some more experianced drivers can avoid the worst of it because they have learnt how to be aware. maybe some of the newer come off worse and give up? ending up with a worse impression of LFS than is really the case, although after driving in some demo servers recently I think even at the worst of times its just so much better than average demo servers

It seems some players (especially using KB) need to learn more control over their cars, would the CTRA consider linking to or hosting a short guide to driving the R1 cars for beginners?, even some of the basic things easly available here at this forum could be helpfull , I am sure some more experianced drivers here would help write somthing up?

I realise the CTRA has taken alot of very hard work by a very few very dedicated people, that have many other things to do and I understand things take time, this thread was not meant as a pop at the system or its creator/s.

SD.

CTRA - I am simply loving it. The fact that there are some bad or wild drivers doesn't really bother me (or if it does I log off or go to one of the other CTRA servers). If I am pushed off the track or simply lampooned I tend to just ignore it or send a smiley face and generally get a good response back. If its my fault, I generally let the driver pass at first opportunity. Collisions do happen, some drivers are more forceful than others but this is all part of the joy of racing.

What I do like is seeing the really good drivers and trying to learn from what they do.

I think it works well.

Well there's my two pennys worth.

Quote from Bean0 :

I was on Race1 again last night, didn't notice anything untoward apart from maybe a couple of speculative overtakes.

Im my experience with reports/actions, it took about 3 days from submitting to the report being closed. I suppose they have to give the reported at least a chance to explain themselves, and some things would be more clear cut than others.

Not to mention we do have more pressing things to do than sit and wait for a report to drop =P

They do get looked at every day, but usually it's a different admin each day. So it does take a few days for the report to process, especially when we are discussing incidents.

Other than having an active admin on 24/7 there is not a better way to do this. There is the possibility of having it all automated, but then you would still need people to make sure the automation is working correctly and not banning the wrong people, which would probably make more work.

I wish it could be faster, but I know I am not going to spend every waking minute checking for replays to watch of poor driving =P