I agree spook. Only stereotypical (read: not all) Americans could be entertained by silly looking cars on tracks that are (and some oval fans admitted as much in this thread) as eay to drive as peeling an orange.
But 500 cars in a car park and tell them to go quickly, and there will be lots of passing, lots of crashes, and lots of cheering. Not far removed from an oval really.
Your claims that wet races are more exciting, are based off your own knowledge of European series that are not run on ovals and thus by nature have less passing. In road courses and street circuits, yes wet racing makes it more exciting. Oval racing has countless more passing, tighter racing, and larger packs. It simply would not be as good on a wet oval.
Futhermore, you are both simply ignoring the points made in this post:
F1 has lots of racing, just not much passing at the moment. Other non-oval series have lots of passing - GP2, F3, DTM, BTCC (which I don't like), MotoGP (yes, even bikes without lights, mirrors, windscreen wipers and two tyres less race in the wet).
Nascar avoids the issue because they're all stupid, and worried about litigation rather than good driving skills...
F1 pit stops also, sometimes, happen in large packs. The drivers have been given a device to stop them killing everyone - pedals, steering wheels, a brain, and a pitlane speed limiter. It works. Nascar should try it.
When 20 off f1 cars come into the pits, you have about 240 pitmen, with lighter but spikier, open wheel cars driving about, and not many accidents. Standing water? Are US pitlanes drained? Skinny wet tyres? What's the skinny bit got do with it, other than aquaplaning resistance? Widen the pitlanes a bit? They seem fecking wide already.
It wouldn't be anymore dangerous than now. Not one bit. Accept it.
We're not just comparing F1 here, what about all the numerous other forms of racing, which can have constant back and forth passing, and even larger cars as well? NASCAR cars aren't the only 3500lb "missiles" in the world.
There would still be passing on the ovals in the wet, and it would show great skill for a driver to scythe through the field and out into the lead, which can happen in the wet.
With regards to pit stops, they occur in other of racing, and tend to happen all at once. Pit crews aren't constantly being mowed down, and in circuit racing often don't even have the safety of a pit wall.
edit: Truck (as in HGV) racing occurs in the wet, I'd say they weigh a lot more than 3500lbs, and they can travel mighty quick.
Ha! You have lost your mind to seriously say any of these series produces close to as much passing as a Nextel Cup race does.
Right, so you say it's fair to just stop a race abitrarily, maybe once half the leaders crashed out and Spyker has taken the lead?
NASCAR doesn't have pit lane speed limiters, controlling the speed is part of the drivers skill, maybe F1 should try it. Stock cars impair the vision of the drivers to a much higher degree than an open-wheeler.
When have you Ever seen 20 F1 cars in the pit lane at the same time in race conditions? You HAVEN'T. Now, put 30-40 F1 cars on the pit lane at the same time, you can't.
If you figure a way to make Bristol's pit lanes wider, patent it.
No, not really. But then they are better drivers/riders on difficult tracks with bends and braking and everything. Much more enjoyable.
If needs be. That's up to the CotC.
I'm sure the drivers could cope with controlling their speed. But the limiter ensures that safety is maintained, and cars can't speed (assuming it's activated, and I for one would be happy for a remote signal to activate it).
I can't remember exactly. It was in the 90s I think, when all (24 or thereabouts) cars dived in. Was fine. Wasn't even a close shave. Why can't 40 F1 cars pit at the same time (apart from the lack of F1 cars)? The pitlanes are quite long, everyone knows where to go. It's not like they're all aiming for the same parking bay!
Wouldn't be a patentable invention . I'd have thought more tarmac, and moving the garages a bit more towards the middle. Or the drivers just cope and drive a bit slower.
This is getting nonsensical. You aren't even responding to the points being made.
Road course racing for you is enjoyable to watch, we understand, but it does NOT have as much passing as a Nextel Cup race on an oval.
I'd very much like to see 24 F1 cars on the pit lane at the same time, I doubt it would be as "no-problem" as you described. If so, it would certainly be eased by the fact there would only be 12 pit crews.
Bristol has no room to be widened, or the garages moved (as do some other tracks). The pit lane loops the entire circuit, and doesn't even have enough pit stalls for all the cars.
Whats the point of claiming there is more overtaking when they are not even proper overtaking moves, just the driver letting the other go past him? I mean, its hardly even overtaking. If anyone does defend their line they are called a blocker and get shunted into a wall. Dont try that one, sorry, it doesnt stand.
If you think that disagreeing with someone is trolling, then you, sprinter and I are all trolls. Personally, I feel I'm using the forum for it's intended purpose.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Ultimately, rain racing just doesn't mesh with what NASCAR is. It's perfectly acceptable for people to have disdain for NASCAR, just try not to make it something it isn't.
Be careful Tristan ur remakes really seem like personal attacks which I dont appreciate one bit. I have not seen anyone who's not a troll say the things you say.
Maintaining pit road speed is part of the drama.
Tristan you're also missing 1 thing. F1 pit road ARE SO WIDE AND LONG. They are not like NASCAR where you actually have to parallel park with the guys only 2 feet from you.
The whole field of F1 can pit and there'd be no problem. That's because the F1 pit road (aside from Monaco) ARE HUGE. NASCAR pit road are so tiny.
Remember Montoya had the hardest time pitting in NASCAR. In fact he's even crashed a total of 5 times this season, all on rookie pit road mistakes. Montoya states that pitting in F1 is much much easier then pitting in nascar because of the small pit road and the heavy amount of cars that constantly pit
You've seriously been playin too much LFS oval racing -_-
No one, NO ONE lets a driver pass them unless they are either lapped or they are teammates. Letting people pass in talladega ARE YOU CRAZY???
BLOCKING? That's happens DAILY in NASCAR. You obviously didn't watch that Richmond race where Jimmie Johnson block Gordon for a total of 4 laps around the oval.
It's there's any track that's harder to block it's ovals
LFS ovals IS NOT TRUE OVAL RACING. In fact it's a sham. Dont use that as a basis for your attacks.
Record shows, I'm known in my previous oval league for my blocking. Blocking is one of the best things about ovals
lol im basing this off of real racing incidents that I have seen. And the comments made about them. Oh he blocked, he has the right to bump him. Or he was going too slow to take that line infront of so and so, the wreck is his fault, etc etc. If anyone attempts to defend their position they are in the wrong and deserve to be bumped off the road. How about the car thats on the outside that concedes his position, no? Ok, lets just hang around here on the outside of someone in the corner. If the drivers didnt do a lot of what they do in nascar, they could obviously run in the wet.
A lot of the tracks have progressively banked turns, to promote multiple racing lines (grooves in american speak), aiding the ablity to drive side-by-side. The "groove" can shift and change driver to driver, and throughout the race dependant on temperature.
Oval racing is just a different set of practice than our traditional racing line/overlap mentality.
So how can you claim for there to be more overtaking when technically, they didnt even overtake since they are driving on different parts of the track. If it rains, the drivers are going to have to start using that racing line/ overlap mentality. Thats where they fail.
. I'd have thought more tarmac, and moving the garages a bit more towards the middle. Or the drivers just cope and drive a bit slower.
- ditto.