Hello racers.

We have attempted with these revisions to respond to your suggestions and criticisms following Round 6. Please read through them and discuss them civilly if you still feel there are issues that need to be clarified.

The entire structure of the rules document has been updated and moved around, so please pay special attention to make sure everything is where it ought to be. I spent quite a bit of time looking it over, but I might have missed something anyway.

Substantive changes for this round:

• All 1 lap penalties have been replaced with last-on-lap penalties (hereafter LL) in order to clarify things a bit. (Rules D-4.2 to D-4.2.2)
  
• Drivers who disconnect must now reconnect and re-join the race. If they fail to do so and another driver takes over for them, the team receives a LL penalty. (Rule I-3)
  
• Drivers who spin under the SC will re-join the line in the position in which they recover. (Rule H-2.5)
  
• Disconnects and DNFs are now given credit for the last lap completed prior to disconnect/DNF rather than the confusing sector-based credit system previously used. (Rules I-2 and J-3)
  
• Added section on force majeure. (Section K)
  
• Some other minor changes, have a look around.

Thanks!

Looks reasonable to me - only had a quick glance at the doc for now.

Can we call them Last-On-Lap pentalties?

LL just doesn't roll off the toungue like LOL does....


seriously... the rules look ~good as far as i c.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Can we call them Last-On-Lap pentalties?

LL just doesn't roll off the toungue like LOL does....

I almost went ahead with LOL, but I figured it was a bit too goofy.

Quote :

Drivers who spin under the SC will re-join the line in the position in which they recover. (Rule H-2.5)

I've not had a chance to read the doc yet but does this not introduce the possibility of some fairly aggressive driving after the spin by the driver who spun and was therefore likely being too agressive anyway? Or the possibility of ppl blocking the spin driver? After all they were behind and have just magically been handed 1 place. I think that if you can't maintain control under the SC and you get yourself into a position to spin then you should sit tight and rejoin at the back of the pack, too bad so fu**ing sad, learn control & patience, I bet it'd only happen once.

Sorry for the rant, it didn't start that way but I really think there are drivers online (not anyone here, we got a really good group) that need to learn the Art of Racecraft

Quote from KSheppard :

...

+1

Maybe a LOL pentalty on it?

Quote from KSheppard :

I've not had a chance to read the doc yet but does this not introduce the possibility of some fairly aggressive driving after the spin by the driver who spun and was therefore likely being too agressive anyway? Or the possibility of ppl blocking the spin driver? After all they were behind and have just magically been handed 1 place. I think that if you can't maintain control under the SC and you get yourself into a position to spin then you should sit tight and rejoin at the back of the pack, too bad so fu**ing sad, learn control & patience, I bet it'd only happen once.

Sorry for the rant, it didn't start that way but I really think there are drivers online (not anyone here, we got a really good group) that need to learn the Art of Racecraft

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you'd prefer that the spinner be sent to the back of the line?

We're open to this possibility. What does everyone else think?

I agree with the Shep, if we want this series to be of the caliber of real-life racing, we must act as if we believe it as such.

Everyone probably knows my stance on this already, as I've been outspoken. But I too would like to see harsh pentalties. Cutting off the balls of the knuckleheads.

And for the record, you're talking about last in line for the restart, not a LL penalty for the end of the race.

correct, back of the starting grid...assuming they can catch up - safely

Bear in mind that this rule, either way we do it, applies to both people who spin on their own and people who are spun by others. Unless the admins actually see it happen when it happens (and this is rare) it's going to be very difficult to assign blame until after the race is over. This was part of the reason we originally decided to let the drivers re-join where they recover.

An unrelated note, but something I've been thinking about:

I find that legislating racecraft in general is a really poor way to produce good racing. Look at the CTRA servers, for example. People will drive well if they want to, and poorly if they don't want to. I've never been a fan of the "scared straight" approach to driver control. Managing this league, however, has certainly opened my eyes to some of the reality of the situation.

I think you need to have harsh rules to promote proper ettiquete in league racing like this. People who really want to be here will drive to the standard that is set/held.

Question: Why is 1 lap pentalty now a LL pentalty? I'm just curious, as it wouldn't be hard to figure where someone would end up if they really had 1 lap deducted from their count. It seems somewhat arbitrary in this regard:
4th place car(with LL pentalty) finishes 2 seconds ahead of 5th and 6th place cars, however 5th & 6th place cars are seperated by the leader and thus -1 lap to 4th. So the 4th place car looses nothing due to it being a LL pentalty.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Question: Why is 1 lap pentalty now a LL pentalty? I'm just curious, as it wouldn't be hard to figure where someone would end up if they really had 1 lap deducted from their count. It seems somewhat arbitrary in this regard:
4th place car(with LL pentalty) finishes 2 seconds ahead of 5th and 6th place cars, however 5th & 6th place cars are seperated by the leader and thus -1 lap to 4th. So the 4th place car looses nothing due to it being a LL pentalty.

Two reasons.

1. A full lap penalty seemed overly harsh for many of the offenses in question.
2. The only penalize a full lap fairly is to have it be based the car's location on the track at the time of the finish, minus one lap. This is confusing and is going to create a lot more work for the admins in the sense of going back and sifting through 4hr long replays (which on my machine takes about 30-40 minutes to get to the end).

There are always going to be lucky breaks and unlucky breaks in racing. In the situation described above, the penalized car is lucky. Other times... say it's 1st with 5 cars on the lead lap... not so lucky. I feel that the LL penalty is harsh enough to make drivers fear mistakes, while fair enough that races are not entirely unsalvageable after they've been handed out (once, at least ).

Quote from srdsprinter :

I think you need to have harsh rules to promote proper ettiquete in league racing like this. People who really want to be here will drive to the standard that is set/held.

Question: Why is 1 lap pentalty now a LL pentalty? I'm just curious, as it wouldn't be hard to figure where someone would end up if they really had 1 lap deducted from their count. It seems somewhat arbitrary in this regard:
4th place car(with LL pentalty) finishes 2 seconds ahead of 5th and 6th place cars, however 5th & 6th place cars are seperated by the leader and thus -1 lap to 4th. So the 4th place car looses nothing due to it being a LL pentalty.

I agree with you.

The LL rules have one fundamental problem.

If the car getting the penalty is already last on that lap yet only a few seconds ahead of another car that is on the previous lap he would in effect get no penalty.

It would be far simpler and fairer to give a time penalty equal to the fastest lap time recorded in the race one lap or if you can work it out have a pre-specified fixed time penalty such

A) Penalty for X = 20 Seconds
B) Penalty for Y = 40 Seconds

This would cover DWB's point

(Just my two pennies worth)

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Bear in mind that this rule, either way we do it, applies to both people who spin on their own and people who are spun by others. Unless the admins actually see it happen when it happens (and this is rare) it's going to be very difficult to assign blame until after the race is over. This was part of the reason we originally decided to let the drivers re-join where they recover.

BUT if i get spun by driver 'x' & lost my positions be well advised that I'd let you know about it. I would say in such an instance you will get innocent drivers involved so innocent bystanders get to pit for repairs while the field does another pace lap. The innocent after repairs get to catch the BACK of the field...(pit stop race ONLY, no position change after the stop) the offender gets to start from the pits AFTER THE LAST CAR of the pack cross the s/f line.

Makes for some quick marshalling work though.

Quote from birder :

It would be far simpler and fairer to give a time penalty equal to the fastest lap time recorded in the race one lap or if you can work it out have a pre-specified fixed time penalty such

A) Penalty for X = 20 Seconds
B) Penalty for Y = 40 Seconds

This would cover DWB's point

(Just my two pennies worth)

The problem with time-based penalties is that we don't get finishing times for drivers who aren't on the lead lap. It's very difficult to assess a time-based penalty for drivers who are one or more laps down.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

The problem with time-based penalties is that we don't get finishing times for drivers who aren't on the lead lap. It's very difficult to assess a time-based penalty for drivers who are one or more laps down.

If you use the latest version of LFS Stats the lap by lap page shows the time for each player so its no problem at all

Hmm!

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Hmm!

If you give me your official replay or a link to it, i can do the stats and host them for you.

Here is the last round results from the replay i have

http://www.conedodgers.co.uk/igtc

Please note this is as they come off LFSStats version 0.92, goto lap by lap and look at the bottom

Hope that helps

Aha, yes, I see, that's quite helpful.

I'll take that into consideration as I finalize these rule changes over the next few days.

Double file race start, Single File restarts?

Confirmation thread?

Start will be double file, restarts single file.

Confirmation thread and final rules revisions forthcoming.

Got a quick question before the oval race. Is so called "bumpdrafting" allowed?

Public notice: I'll be Piss#d if I get spun due to someone bumpdrafting me...I won't bumpdraft anyone for the same reason.

Bumpage.

-> Rules Finalized?
-> Server Chosen?
-> Relay Added to Chosen Server?