Hi All,

I've been putting in a few hours trying to set some competitive times at Blackwood GP in the FOX. I can do mid 1:09's with a setup derived from darkone55's.

I find that the car is very unpredictable over the kerbs, often spinning wildly out of control. After using analyse for speed and F1 perf view I lose the most time by not being full throttle through the 2 major chicanes.

The 1:08/1:07 laps I compared against ride all the way over the kerb with not hint of throttle lift.

When I have trouble it's the rear that breaks away, I *think* I could sort it more with some clutch pack diff trickery but I haven't really played around with this before.

(As an aside the car doesn't *feel* right in high speed corners as I unload steering lock it often lights up the rears which again is maybe diff related?)

Any help/ideas would be much appreciated!

Hmm, I'm not that technical, but you need to make sure you don't steer too much. See it like this; the curbs are bumps, so when you drive over them, the car becomes lighter. That screws up the balance a lot, so don't steer too much.

I got problems with the curb on the exit of the last turn too. Sometimes my rear right tyre slams into it, causing damage.

I think it just has to do with the car control. I've been driving the FOX since the beginning of S2, which is more then 2 years, so I got quite some control over it. When I jump into the LX6 I have the same problem as you because I hardly drove it.

I hope that can help you a bit..

That problem is one reason why I prefer Visco diff over Clutch pack, with Visco kerbs are not even near that much of a problem. Also looser rear ARB helps. That from setup side, driving is then another issue

Exactly, when on the curb, steer a little less, and soon after that steer as you always would again, in that way you will survive it with practise. And try more stable sets, the fast ones arent always ste best ones. They need much car control

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the advice, I would generally try to keep straight across the kerbs so minimise steering input.

I found another setup on this forum (in a thread called FOX & blackwood). The way it slides is much more progressive which helps feel. It handles the kerbs way better and I've dropped into the high 1:08s quite easily!

This really highlights that you need to get a setup tuned to your style.

I've also change the FOV setting to 78deg which helps position the car better during the corners.

I found that I liked the car stiffer at the front to give quick response to the steering, this helps line the car up for the kerbs.

In the 1st chicane I take a tighter line through clipping all the kerbs this combined with a better exit from turn 1 (squeeze the throttle to build up speed early) has given a gain of around .3s in the 1st split.

For the 2nd chicane I come in *almost* full throttle just clipping the right kerb but really nailing the left one. This makes a massive difference of around .5-.7s.

I think there is more to come with some practice before I change anything. Having said that the setup seems like it could have some rear downforce trimmed.

Only another second to go!

Cheers

BTW: I think that disabling "throttle cut on upshift" gives slightly better acceleration.

It looks like it to me but the hard evidence of laptimes have not proved this yet ;-)

Quote from matt_tighe :

BTW: I think that disabling "throttle cut on upshift" gives slightly better acceleration.

It looks like it to me but the hard evidence of laptimes have not proved this yet ;-)

Flatshifting sounds stupid and is stupid, always avoid that cheat

Quote from JTbo :

Flatshifting sounds stupid and is stupid, always avoid that cheat

It's not a cheat, it's an exploit due to unfinished/not yet implemented engine/transmission/driveshaft damage...

Flatshifting is definatly faster. Before false starts were possible (ie perfect start every time) I tested this on the drag strip. all the cars were faster, the turbo ones there was a massive difference, but even the non turbo cars were definatly faster.

Quote from bbman :

It's not a cheat, it's an exploit due to unfinished/not yet implemented engine/transmission/driveshaft damage...

True, but in my eyes it translates as a cheat, not cheating others but cheating simulation, ok I'm weird

You should also keep in mind that FOX has a ground effect and it creates the most of the downforce. When you drive over a kerb your car rises high above the ground and there is a massive loss on downforce, as the "tunnel" where the air comes from to the "chamber" is relatively much closer to the size of the chamber because both of the "parts" are added the extra height of the "risen" car.

It is like if there is a 2cm "tunnel" where the air comes in to the 20cm chamber it creates more negative pressure (and therefore more downforce as the car is sucked down) than if you drive over a kerb and your car is raised asymmetrically an extra let's say 10 centimeters, when there would be some ~10cm tunnel and a ~30cm chamber. As you can see (2/20 = 0.1 <-> 10/30 = 0.3) there is a 300% (or you can say it drops to 33% from normal) difference in suction and downforce created by ground effect when driving over a kerb or not, and that's why the car is hard to handle. (the numbers are not based on any car data, just estimated)

I am sorry for messy explanation as english is not my native language.

Sorry, there is no ground effect in LfS (yet)...

That's why the little GTRs (and sometimes even the big ones) still have a high nose so that they can run a softer suspension to increase braking force... In RL, they'd flip at speed...

Quote from bbman :

Sorry, there is no ground effect in LfS (yet)...

Hmm, I have always thought there is because there is a ground effect slider on FOX settings if my memory serves me right. Can't check it because I am at work now.

There's only a speed slider in the aerodynamics tab to give you a readout about lift, downforce and drag at that particular speed... It includes the undertray there, but that's a constant value, regardless what ride height you set...

From what I understand there is no ground effect in LFS. I used to race Formula Ford Zetecs in the UK a while ago and you could get some downforce from the flat bottom and pitch in the setup.

However in LFS I see a lot of setups where the car is setup in squat (higher front) which I would never have done in real life, especially not as drasticly. This isn't realistic because it would kill downforce and introduce drag but I think is done to transfer more weight to the rear as LFS ignores this?

But your quite right, in a real car hitting the kerb would disturb underbody downforce.

With regard to flat shifting, I agree it's not realistic and I too would rather race realisticly, but unfortunately when looking for ultimate lap times people will use any tweak necessary. (Which I suppose IS realistic ironically!?).

I actually started playing LFS because I'm looking for a sim to practice with before deciding whether I'm still sharp enough to go racing for real again. Perhaps Formula Renault club racing in the UK. LFS certainly feels very real through it's force feedback and the buzz you get from improving lap times is great. The community seems very active and knowlegable too with some great comptetition.

body downforce modled! but its not adjustable I.E ride hight does not efect the about of DF produced.

as for curbs, soften up rear arb, soften front springs, also add a small amount of camber to the rear wheelthat is letting go..

driving style= get the car 80% pointing in the right direction before curb then reduce stearing slightly over curb, this settles the car more...

Remember, popping the curbs also puts some positive camber in the outside tires...

Yup thats why i say put a bit more camber on the outside rear wheel (on BL that would be right rear) although i should of said add more negative camber but i know what i meant lol

P.S to mutch though will cause allsorts of problems so dont go over the top .3 MAX

Quote from Gizz :

Yup thats why i say put a bit more camber on the outside rear wheel (on BL that would be right rear) although i should of said add more negative camber but i know what i meant lol

P.S to mutch though will cause allsorts of problems so dont go over the top .3 MAX

the outside rear on BL1 would be the left rear '_'