Soo... is this the bit where McLaren releases their dirt on one of the other teams (wasn't it Renault)?
Actually it's the bit where a mod has to go and re-edit the thread topic back to what it was originally.
lol... priceless
The drivers were granted immunity in exchange for giving evidence. Hamilton appeared in person, Alonso allowed an email he received from de la Rossa to be submitted as evidence.
+1 for loosing as a team eh
...Now that's a conspiracy theory anyone could buy. The drama of it!
The immunity was that they wouldn't be charged with anything under the regulations. If the whole team is booted out but specific charges are not brought against the drivers that does not conflict with the FIA's undertaking.
On Sunday they will take to the track with cars which have benefitted from knowledge gained from another team illegally. Technically, McLaren should fail scrutineering - they are still breaking the rules.
Integrity? Have you seen F1 before?
The FIA often pokes its nose in to make the championship standings artificially close - look at what they did to Renault last season whilst turning a blind eye to Ferrari's stupid hubcaps.
I was very surprised that it took so long to release the verdict, seeing as they would have prepared the statement many days in advance
I'm looking forward to their explanation tomorrow. I cannot see anything that would warrant the punishment that has been given though. The best bit is McLaren needing to prove they have no Ferrari IP in their 2008 car ... how do they do that, by requesting Ferrari's 2008 design?
The cars themselfs could not have gained from anything, the FIA have checked the whole car and all the upgrades since this spy case came to light. Any gains would be knowledge of illegal parts on the Ferrari cars, or team strategy.
"The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."
As you can see they will still be checking the 2008 car too, so if anything they will be at a big disadvantage because they won't even be able to copy things from spy pictures.
For me the most important thing is keeping F1 entertaining, Mclaren have had a huge kick in the balls, why rip them off completely?
"The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."
As you can see they will still be checking the 2008 car too, so if anything they will be at a big disadvantage because they won't even be able to copy things from spy pictures.
For me the most important thing is keeping F1 entertaining, Mclaren have had a huge kick in the balls, why rip them off completely?
I dont know if the MCLaren Team used any plans or infos or whatever, but i think that the whole story was made by/for Ferrari. They didnt had too much of a chance beating MCLaren on the track so they gotta get their success on another way.
And i dont think that MCLaren used anything they might have received from Ferrari because they were faster most of the time.
The penalty the FIA came up with, is totally made for Ferrari so the Cheaters in F1 are Ferrari and the FIA.
Thats my opinion, so keep your Burning Bananas
And yes im a McLaren fan
and yes i HATE Ferrari (and the FIA:nod
And i dont think that MCLaren used anything they might have received from Ferrari because they were faster most of the time.
The penalty the FIA came up with, is totally made for Ferrari so the Cheaters in F1 are Ferrari and the FIA.
Thats my opinion, so keep your Burning Bananas
And yes im a McLaren fan
and yes i HATE Ferrari (and the FIA:nod
Me too. Reading Ron Dennis' statement to the press after the hearing it doesn't sound like there was any new evidence, certainly no "smoking gun". From the story so far I'm assuming it's yet another case of the FIA confusing arses with elbows.
If anyone's going to Spa at the weekend could you please print out the dictionary definition of the word "Consistency" in 6ft high letters so that Max Mosley can get a good look at it.
He won't be able to see it, have you seen the track? The turns have 20 mile run off areas now.
Nooooooooooo.
Just so long as they haven't touched Eau Rouge ... speaking of which, I just checked to make sure that wasn't the case, and found the following on Wikipedia ...
"Properly speaking, the Eau Rouge corner is only the lefthander at the bottom. The following righthander that leads steeply uphill, which was introduced in 1939 to shortcut the original hairpin "Ancienne Douane", is called "Raidillon" (fr:Raidillon de l'Eau Rouge)."
Well I never!
I have a question. Can McLaren be legally third on the Constructors championship?
Doing the maths it would still be possible (Renault 38 points) and four GPs to go...
Doing the maths it would still be possible (Renault 38 points) and four GPs to go...
according to the news it's official ....
No because they cannot score any points!
Nah, they can't score constructors points this year. They also said that if their drivers win any of the remaining races, no McLaren employee can accept the constructors trophy on the podium.
Ooooooh.
Nonsense. They have cheated, gained an illegal advantage but it will be one of their drivers having their photo taken with the Driver's Championship, whilst the Constructor's Championship remains, as always, a footnote.
This is no punishment whatsoever. Money is nothing to these teams. The only tangible difference is that they will be at the other end of the pitlane next season. Wow.
there isn't really enough information available to know what's really going on, or who are the biggest bad guys, and there isn't much point in speculating.
that being said, it does seem very convenient that the drivers were given immunity in exchange for their testimony. as someone else noted, if there was enough cheating done to justify punishing the team, then how could the drivers have not benefited from the team's cheating? it's almost as if the FIA is pandering to both sides. ie, Ferrari gets what they want, but Hamilton still gets his chance to be world champ as a rookie (which apparently people think is important to the popularity of the sport?).
but alas, all we really know is that when big money is on the line, things get very weird.
that being said, it does seem very convenient that the drivers were given immunity in exchange for their testimony. as someone else noted, if there was enough cheating done to justify punishing the team, then how could the drivers have not benefited from the team's cheating? it's almost as if the FIA is pandering to both sides. ie, Ferrari gets what they want, but Hamilton still gets his chance to be world champ as a rookie (which apparently people think is important to the popularity of the sport?).
but alas, all we really know is that when big money is on the line, things get very weird.
I'd like to see McLaren run with some sort of message on their cars in anger or maybe Max Mosely's face on the nose or wing & just hoping that it gets embedded in the sidepod of a Ferrari... terminally for the Ferrari of course.
I'd like to see them run with "Ferrari Inside" stencils. Although Intel might sue them if they do a paintbrush circle around it.
Have they? Take off your indignant Ferrari fan hat for a moment and think about it. What evidence do you have that they cheated? Until the FIA release more information tomorrow, none of us know what they based this judgement on.
If only Mike Coughlan had seen the Ferrari documents, then what does it have to do with McLaren? Why not punish Ferrari equally, given that it was one of their employees who leaked the data? It seems to me that Stepney and Coughlan - assuming the whole story is true - were working together for their own benefit, and both of them were looking for work with another team. It's quite possible that Stepney and Coughlan never intended this information to benefit McLaren at all, but rather Honda or Toyota or whichever third party employed them next year.
Edit: Remember when two Toyota employees were convicted of stealing Ferrari technical documents when they switched teams a couple of years ago? The Toyota team itself wasn't punished at all.
DamonHill voted to ban [iDi]Schumi [1/5197]
McLaren [could be] Excluded from 2007 & 2008 F1 Championships
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