The 'incident' on the exit of La Source seemed fair play to me. It wasn't like Alonso drove Hamilton off the road...Hamilton was behind, but going faster, and Alonso seemed to be taking a fairly normal line. Hamilton could have lifted and stayed on track or keep his foot in and take to the escape road.

Brilliant driving from both of them through Eau Rouge. I thought one of them would yield at the bottom of the hill, so to see them both go through together was incredible.

The rest of the race was rather dull.

Quote from StewartFisher :

... Alonso seemed to be taking a fairly normal line.

Fair or not, Fernando knew damn well that Lewis was along side him. He moved over on him. You don't take a normal line when someone is along side you.



Two wide at Eau Rouge was thrilling.

First Alonso tries to blackmail his boss, then he does a dirty move on his team mate. I officially want Hamilton to win it now.

It wasnt Ron Dennis who said that Alonso has launch a threat on McLaren? The same person who has been lying all over the season around the spy affair. I think RD credibility has gone quite low last months. Even Mosley and Alonso have contradicted RD version, so I will go with Mosley and Alonso on this one.
from F1-live:

Mosley told ITV his version of events: "On the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ron rang me and he said, 'I've just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he's got information and he's threatening to give it to the Federation.'

"So I said, 'What did you say Ron?' He said, 'I said, go on and hand it over.'

"I said, 'Ron, you said exactly the right thing.'

"And then Ron said, 'But there isn't any information.'

"So I said, 'So it's an empty threat?'

"And he replied: 'Yes, a completely empty threat.
There's no information, there's nothing to come out; I can assure you that if there was something, Max, I would have told you.'

"Now this was a week after looking me in the eye in the World Council and telling me there was absolutely nothing wrong and everybody had done exactly as they should do, so I believed him.

"I've known Ron for 40 years; it's very difficult for me, when somebody I've known for 40 years looks me in the eye and says, 'Max, I'm telling the truth with complete sincerity' - you believe him.

"It was only when I got the list from the Italian police (showing) 323 SMS phone calls going over a three-month period between Coughlan and Stepney, (that I concluded) there had to be more to this.

"You don't get 300 messages arranging a visit to Honda. This is something serious. At which point, I sat down and wrote the letter to the drivers (asking for their evidence), and the rest is history."

bad move from alonso!
boo!

if i was hamilton i wouldn't give room to alonso, we would crash

that would be cool, especially for the championship

Quote from farcar :

Fair or not, Fernando knew damn well that Lewis was along side him. He moved over on him. You don't take a normal line when someone is along side you.

What do you expect? Alonso pull over and let Hamilton pass? Alonso took the same line as Massa, Hamilton should know that it is almost impossible overtake in the outside lane in a turn with 5 cars around.

its no like Hamilton has been fair on starts all season, always on the limit which I truly think its great for us, but then you cant blame others to do the same you do.

Quote from jamvib :

What do you expect? Alonso pull over and let Hamilton pass? Alonso took the same line as Massa, Hamilton should know that it is almost impossible overtake in the outside lane in a turn with 5 cars around.

its no like Hamilton has been fair on starts all season, always on the limit which I truly think its great for us, but then you cant blame others to do the same you do.

What do you expect from Hamilton, he is one of the best I have seen at overtaking he seems to have no fear and just goes for it, I think he is going to give it all he's got in the last 3 races and win the title.

Sam.

Hamilton's comment on the move:

"I wouldn't call it fair, but it was hard though. There was enough room for the both of us to get through that corner fair and square. I just feel for someone that's always complaining about people doing unfair moves just pushed me wide. I was very lucky there was a run-off area so I could continue to race."

The third sentence doesn't like to be good English but you can get what he's on about.

Quote from sam93 :

What do you expect from Hamilton.

just what he tried. I'm not attacking Hamilton, I'm just fed up with the Hamilton being brave and Alonso being Dangerous bias judgment on similar scenarios. Its starting on this thread even ITV had found "fair" the situation.
I also think that Hamilton whining on press about the situation it isn't fair, since he's doing the same aggressive and "brave" moves all season (which I repeat its great!!!). Look no further: Start at Monza last GP.

Quote from axus :

Hamilton's comment on the move:

"I wouldn't call it fair, but it was hard though. There was enough room for the both of us to get through that corner fair and square. I just feel for someone that's always complaining about people doing unfair moves just pushed me wide. I was very lucky there was a run-off area so I could continue to race."

The third sentence doesn't like to be good English but you can get what he's on about.

There is nothing wrong with that English my man. Its perfect.

As for Hamilton and Alonso. Neither of them, have done anything remotely wrong, but it scared me how 'bouyant' Ron Dennis was , after the race...

Quote from jamvib :

It wasnt Ron Dennis who said that Alonso has launch a threat on McLaren? The same person who has been lying all over the season around the spy affair. I think RD credibility has gone quite low last months. Even Mosley and Alonso have contradicted RD version, so I will go with Mosley and Alonso on this one.
from F1-live:

Mosley told ITV his version of events: "On the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ron rang me and he said, 'I've just had Alonso in the motorhome and he says he's got information and he's threatening to give it to the Federation.'

"So I said, 'What did you say Ron?' He said, 'I said, go on and hand it over.'

"I said, 'Ron, you said exactly the right thing.'

"And then Ron said, 'But there isn't any information.'

"So I said, 'So it's an empty threat?'

"And he replied: 'Yes, a completely empty threat.
There's no information, there's nothing to come out; I can assure you that if there was something, Max, I would have told you.'

"Now this was a week after looking me in the eye in the World Council and telling me there was absolutely nothing wrong and everybody had done exactly as they should do, so I believed him.

"I've known Ron for 40 years; it's very difficult for me, when somebody I've known for 40 years looks me in the eye and says, 'Max, I'm telling the truth with complete sincerity' - you believe him.

"It was only when I got the list from the Italian police (showing) 323 SMS phone calls going over a three-month period between Coughlan and Stepney, (that I concluded) there had to be more to this.

"You don't get 300 messages arranging a visit to Honda. This is something serious. At which point, I sat down and wrote the letter to the drivers (asking for their evidence), and the rest is history."

Personally I think Ron Dennis is innocent in all of this. I believe that at the time of speaking to Mosley he was convinced that Alonso had no information and it blew up in Dennis's face when he called his bluff.
It seems like he has acted properly throughout, but the actions of a rogue employee and a driver seemingly trying to bribe his way into a honda car next year must have taken him off guard.
Its amazing IMHO that Dennis hasn't told Alonso to race in a pedal-car for the rest of the season!

Quote from BlueFlame :

There is nothing wrong with that English my man. Its perfect.

Let's look at it carefully:
"I just feel for someone that's always complaining about people doing unfair moves just pushed me wide."

He can have "I just feel that someone that's always complaining about people doing unfair moves just pushed me wide" or "I just feel for someone that's always complaining about people doing unfair moves to push me wide is unfair/hypocritical/whatever". What he said is not a complete sentence.

No matter how you see it, Dennis handed what happened in a disastrous way. And he has (at least) three rogue employees, and those were in charge of:

- developing a car
- testing a car
- driving a car.

Yes, he must have been really taken off guard since he was asleep. Or lying. Choose the answer you like best.

Quote from Origamiboy :

Personally I think Ron Dennis is innocent in all of this. I believe that at the time of speaking to Mosley he was convinced that Alonso had no information and it blew up in Dennis's face when he called his bluff.

Exactly. Just because what Dennis told Mosely turned out to be wrong doesn't mean he was lying, just that he didn't know any different.

Quote :

It seems like he has acted properly throughout, but the actions of a rogue employee and a driver seemingly trying to bribe his way into a honda car next year must have taken him off guard.

You think Alonso's trying to bribe a drive with Honda?? You have noticed those green and blue cars driving round at the back, haven't you? Apart from Spyker, I can't imagine a team he'd want to join less than Honda.
Its amazing IMHO that Dennis hasn't told Alonso to race in a pedal-car for the rest of the season![/quote]I think this is the confirmation that Ron means what he says when he claims that he is committed to equality in his team.

I don't defend everything Alonso's done, but we're not exactly in posession of all the information about what's going on in McLaren. If Alonso really was expecting to be number one driver then he shouldn't have joined McLaren. That's not the way they do things.

Quote from J.B. :

First Alonso tries to blackmail his boss, then he does a dirty move on his team mate. I officially want Hamilton to win it now.

wasnt dirty driving

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

wasnt dirty driving

From someone who idolizes a very dirty driver and has publicly admitted to weaving and wrecking backmarkers

I think the move was pretty appalling, admitably I only got to see what they showed on TV, but I'm fairly sure Alonso could have taken a much tighter line if he had wanted too, also the whole stupid squeezing Hamilton off the line move and frankly when they went into fired up on the first lap Eau Rouge I thought it was far more likely to end up in a sea of blue lights than a clean overtaking move.

As for the ITV commentary, well they're always far too cautious to blame anyone ever, I remember after one of Ralf's less fine moments where he clearly went in far too fast in an 'overtaking' attempt and T-boned another car they called it a racing incident with no driver to blame. I don't really Alonso is more guilty of this kind of driving than Hamilton, who has did that silly 'overtake'/sailing past locked up at Monza, squeezes off the line and worst of all made that stupid move at Silverstone in the GP2, which was interpreted as an amazing overtake rather than forcing another car off at 160mph.

Maybe it wasn't a "nice" move, certainly not a friendly move, but it wasn't dirty, illegal or even unfair. Hamilton knew he was taking that risk, his choice, Alonso just drove as he was entitled to. (imo)

We see these incidents all the time, it's racing. LFS is like sparring most of the time by comparison

Nothing wrong with the move at the start, had the wall still been there on the outside Hamilton would have backed off as they were exiting the corner to make sure he didn't lose more places to cars behind.

I just can't understand why people seem to think if a driver ends up driving themselves off the outside of the circuit the one on the inside is to blame . Hamilton kept his foot in it and took to the tarmac apron because he knew there was more to gain by doing so.

Hamilton has done and will do the same thing as Alonso for many years to come.

Pretty dull race, some nice driving by Kubica but that was about it really. Good to see Kimi on form once again.

Why does no one else mention Sutil?

I thought he did great today. Driver of the race IMO.

Quote from StewartFisher :

Exactly. Just because what Dennis told Mosely turned out to be wrong doesn't mean he was lying, just that he didn't know any different.
You think Alonso's trying to bribe a drive with Honda?? You have noticed those green and blue cars driving round at the back, haven't you? Apart from Spyker, I can't imagine a team he'd want to join less than Honda.
Its amazing IMHO that Dennis hasn't told Alonso to race in a pedal-car for the rest of the season! I don't defend everything Alonso's done, but we're not exactly in posession of all the information about what's going on in McLaren. If Alonso really was expecting to be number one driver then he shouldn't have joined McLaren. That's not the way they do things.

Not necessarily a drive, but you don't send over 300 messages to them to arrange a meal, do you? Other than Ferrari, where else could Alonso realistically go, especially considering recent events? He doesn't exactly scream 'team player', does he?

I don't for a second say Dennis is blameless. But yes, I do think he was kept in the dark, and I do think that he told the FIA what he knew at the time.

EDIT:- Sorry, merged mine and your quotes..

Quote from Origamiboy :

Not necessarily a drive, but you don't send over 300 messages to them to arrange a meal, do you? Other than Ferrari, where else could Alonso realistically go, especially considering recent events? He doesn't exactly scream 'team player', does he?

Erm...weren't the 300 text messages between Stepney and Coughlan? I don't think Alonso was mentioned regarding text messages and phone calls.

Quote from Origamiboy :

Not necessarily a drive, but you don't send over 300 messages to them to arrange a meal, do you? Other than Ferrari, where else could Alonso realistically go, especially considering recent events? He doesn't exactly scream 'team player', does he?

Alonso sent some e-mails, not the SMS messages. Is Alonso currently on a contract where Ron Dennis will have to pay him to leave? If so could Alonso be eyeing up an early retirement with a nice little bonus?

Quote from StewartFisher :

Erm...weren't the 300 text messages between Stepney and Coughlan? I don't think Alonso was mentioned regarding text messages and phone calls.

Er... Yes.. They were.. Classic example of skim reading then making a completely retarded point from yours truely...

I'll go back under that rock of mine and think about what I've done.

(Then again Alonso did try and blackmail Dennis, which still makes him an arse in my book )

Quote from ajp71 :

Alonso sent some e-mails, not the SMS messages. Is Alonso currently on a contract where Ron Dennis will have to pay him to leave? If so could Alonso be eyeing up an early retirement with a nice little bonus?

I think Alonso's contract is pretty watertight. If McLaren want him out then they may have to pay big bucks for the privilege.

Quote from ajp71 :

Alonso sent some e-mails, ..?

Email interchange was in March, the 780 pages dossier copy "intent" was a couple of moths later!