The online racing simulator
Microsoft Loses Anti-Trust Appeal
(19 posts, started )
Microsoft Loses Anti-Trust Appeal
Microsoft has lost its appeal against a record 497m euro (£343m; $690m) fine imposed by the European Commission in a long-running competition dispute.


The European Court of First Instance upheld the ruling that Microsoft had abused its dominant market position.
A probe concluded in 2004 that Microsoft was guilty of freezing out rivals in server software and products such as media players.

Microsoft has two months to appeal at the European Court of Justice.

"The Court of First Instance essentially upholds the Commission's decision finding that Microsoft abused its dominant position," the court's statement said.
Microsoft's top lawyer said it was important now for the company to comply with EU competition law, but that it had not yet decided on its next legal steps.

Trustee rejected
It threw out just one small part of the European Commission's ruling, which had established an independent monitoring trustee to supervise Microsoft's behaviour.
"The Court criticises, in particular, the obligation imposed on Microsoft to allow the monitoring trustee, independently of the Commission, access to its information, documents, premises and employees and also to the source code of its relevant products," it said.

Microsoft has now been ordered to pay 80% of the Commission's legal costs, while the Commission has to carry a specific part of Microsoft's costs.
The Commission welcomed the verdict. It will give its competition commissioner Neelie Kroes a much needed boost, after her office lost several high-profile anti-trust cases.

Sharing information
The 2004 ruling ordered Microsoft to ensure its products could operate with other computer systems by sharing information with rival software companies.
It was also ordered to make a version of its Windows operating system available without Microsoft's Media Player software.

Monday's ruling upheld that order, saying it was "beyond dispute" that Microsoft obliged customers to buy its Media Player software along with the operating system.
Last year, Microsoft was told to pay daily fines adding up to 280.5 million euros over a six-month period, after it failed to adhere to the 2004 decision.

Michael Reynolds, of law firm Allen & Overy, said the important thing was "that these principles of the judgement will not just apply to the Microsoft case". "They will apply to any dominant company that engages in the same behaviour. It's not just about Microsoft," said Mr Reynolds. "It provides legal certainty now as to what you can and you can't do in relation to information you have to make available to companies who compete in your environment to enable them to be a viable competitor," he added.


Source
#2 - Jakg
We all know what a sucess "XP-N" was, don't we. I'd love to pay more for an OS with less :doh:

This is a blow for M$, but tbh i doubt they'll change what they do.

I like the way Linux fanboys (ie my Dad) always rave about how Linux has "all the software you need" (even though the software i actually *want* to use doesn't work on Linux...) while Windows doesn't, and yet when something comes bundled with windows they get accused of "monopolising"
What about apple then? If I buy an ipod I have to use itunes, until some freak tells me how to run everything fine and even easier with winamp. The iphone is locked to a 1-provider contract and has to be unlocked to even work with let's say vodafone. Telecom, e-on, shell and many others try to ruin competitors with illegal price agreements, buying other big companies and the like.

Yes, I use microsoft only because I play games, and my installation is completely legal but haxx0red to the max. If they started bulloxing companies for being monopolists though, they'd have to get money from ALL of them.

greetz

der poor legal dumb*ss butz
I've certainly never bought a media player even though I've tried and used many over the years. I wonder how someone would make money from those things.. advertising? But I've never seen an ad anywhere.

These days I stick with good old WMP and VLC.
I don't understand this ruling at all. What are Microsoft supposed to do? If they didn't bundle WMP with Windows then there would be thousands of complaints about people not being able to play videos on their brand new PC.

How much you use WMP is totally up to the user, so I don't see how Microsoft are forcing user to use their own media playing software.

Then again, the EU are involved, so it comes as no surprise that they make bad decisions.
Quote from Electrik Kar :I've certainly never bought a media player even though I've tried and used many over the years. I wonder how someone would make money from those things.. advertising? But I've never seen an ad anywhere.

These days I stick with good old WMP and VLC.

I`m totally agree with you there mate. You don`t need any other programs than VLC, and maybe winamp. Those two little FREE programs do everything + more than media player does.
I like VLC, it's very small and plays most everything you chuck at it. You really only need VLC as you say, but I don't think it plays quicktime stuff- which is a real pain because I think then you need Realplayer (could be wrong), which is probably the worst of the bunch.

Winamp was cool in the day, but VLC rules the roost now.
#8 - Jakg
The ruling means they have to make a version called "XP n" (this ruling was in 2004) which comes with no media player. No-where stocks this, or ever even had it as an option, however i saw one copy of XP Pro n ONCE. For £10 more than the XP Pro is with a media player that's remotely useful...

Vista has the "n" range as well, and no-one even noticed...

Media Player is not great, i rarely even use it. But loose it? Why bother! It fast forwards stuff better than VLC and i use it to sync my music to my Zen - why the hell would i pay more for less?!
Quote from Electrik Kar :I don't think it plays quicktime stuff

Nope, VLC actually does play quicktime. I don't use windows media player at all.
don't forget about mplayer and media player classic, both very good players (mplayer even comes with an encoder, mencoder).
And they both play QT/RM and even flv. You might need the QT/RM Alternative codec though.
It's Universal Karmic Punishment for releasing such a pile of junk as media player.

Ever actually tried using Media player ?

Put in a DVD - it has issues

Play music - it has issues

iTunes for all music, not perfect at all but at least usefully usable and VLC for any video, I'm sure there's something it won't play but I haven't managed to find it yet.

I have no issues with M$ including Media Player but as it really doesn't work I'm not sure why the courts punishing them - unless they just hate M$ which in an EU sense with the push for open source is possible.
It's about time lil' Billie got some spanking on antitrust and ripping ppl off for no reason but from my point of view it's a small loss for his minions at Microsoft and move on not learning what customers want; just the same scenario apple is right now. Oh I wish this war of the stupids was over, and also for that that matter the format wars too if I must be so bold.
Quote from StewartFisher :I don't understand this ruling at all. What are Microsoft supposed to do? If they didn't bundle WMP with Windows then there would be thousands of complaints about people not being able to play videos on their brand new PC.

Its not so much about the player application, but the media format. Windows Media is proprietary and only (legally) plays on Microsoft licensed players. So what they're doing is giving out the player with windows for everyone, using their monopoly position on their OS to push their media format for everyone as well. The problem with this is that since "everyone" has Windows Media Player, anyone who wants to provide some kind of video service will pretty much have to do it with windows media since that's the format everyone can play. Then microsoft can license this media format to service providers, "DVD" player manufacturers, music player manufacturers etc. and profit big time when there's nobody who could compete with them as no one else can distribute their player to such a wide audience. Therefore the windows media format will not be picked because its the best or because its the cheapest, but just because it happens to come bundled with a monopoly OS. And thats not a "free market" decision and therefore A bad thing.

Quote from StewartFisher :How much you use WMP is totally up to the user, so I don't see how Microsoft are forcing user to use their own media playing software.

Not really, if microsoft gets to do what it wants its either you use WMP and Microsoft licensed players or you do not watch any video or listen to any music at all. If all media (music you buy from stores, movies you rent or buy, etc.) is in Windows media format then there is no alternative for anyone.
Quote from Racer X NZ : VLC for any video, I'm sure there's something it won't play but I haven't managed to find it yet.

Fraps Video (captured) is the only media I've came across that VLC won't play.
#15 - J.B.
Quote from Electrik Kar :I wonder how someone would make money from those things.. advertising? But I've never seen an ad anywhere.

Zoom Player, Power DVD, Theatertek. All are payware players that are making money. And VLC is for noobs. Bad interface, few options, poor performance with HD and interlaced content.
#16 - Woz
Looks like everyone missed the whole point of the ruling and meany missed the really important bit altogether.

When you have a monopoly the rules have to change because of the power you have. Just look at the way they just tried to purchase ISO certification for OOXML.

Media player first.
Yes I know WMP is free BUT by adding to the OS it allows MS to try and do what they did to Netscape when IE was added to Windows. Netscape went from No1 to dead in a very short time.

Think of this more as the line in the sand for MS. It says "Stop adding more apps for free" just so you can kill of the competition.

Server Protocols
This is the big one, the one everyone ignores. This is the one the real fight is over.

MS make sure that their stuff works only with their stuff and go out of their way to make sure this is the case. The recent OOXML fight shows this in its full glory. It is a 6000+ page spec that they managed to buy through EMCA in an attempt to then fasttrack to ISO. The spec as it stands has patent protection on PARTS of it and is incomplete such that it is IMPOSSIBLE to implement fully without indepth knowledge of the workings of OLD MS apps like Office 95 etc.

What the EU did with the rulling is to force MS to publish and document their interfaces that would allow other companies to interact with MS server software in the same way as actual MS software does.

MS have STILL not supplied this to a good enough standard. Instead they tried what they always do, drip feed until they meet the criteria with the aim of avoiding what they have been asked to do. They were hoping the ruling would be revoked in the appeal and hence the problem would go away. This cost them VERY heavy in fines.

What Next
They now have 2 months to appeal or they MUST publish their specs in FULL. The next fine will be worth over 1Billion Euros if they fail to supply the docs this time.

The US DOJ is also looking at extending how long they will watch MS because after their attempt to sort MS out failed and the rulling dies soon. A number of states have asked for 5 more years to make sure MS does what it is required to do.
Quote :And VLC is for noobs. Bad interface, few options, poor performance with HD and interlaced content.

Hehe

Well, it's the lazymans player. I really use it for movies mostly, as I used to have quite a lot of trouble with WMP- wouldn't even play bog standard formats at one point. Now I can play M4a files in WMP so I usually use that for my online music and I guess moreso for movies and things these days, because those issues seem to be sorted here.

I can't keep up with the format wars. I just want my things to work. VLC was there for me when the others weren't, so I still have a soft spot for that little player.
Quote from J.B. :...And VLC is for noobs. Bad interface, few options, poor performance with HD and interlaced content.

...low footprint, more options than a standard user needs, no stupid skins, nice to watch whats INSIDE.

greetz

der butz
Real men use MPlayer. No GUI, needs probably no codecs installed, comes with encoding tool and has options for everything you could think of.

Microsoft Loses Anti-Trust Appeal
(19 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG