Good point, I shan't ever say LFS is realistic because they're not even wearing harnesses. Also there's a distinct lack of HANS devices.
Actually, I'm with Al and SamH on this one. It's trivial, but I'm pleased that LFS has a way for server admins to regulate it. That way there is less bitching and bickering... or... er, come to think of it... no... there's... less something... or another... *shrugs* there's it - and this it is like a thing everyone likes, but since it's there... it... makes...no sense... heh... coffee time.
Hans devices should be required on the BF1, but not on anything else (although it would be nice), and harnesses would be nice, too, however you only really notice these things in screenshots, whereas a 4-poly face is not only bloody obvious, but also bloody stupid.
Coming back with the "it's only a game argument" is also pretty stupid, as by the same token you might as well be driving NFS:STFU because your monitor is flat, and that's a major "immersion killer"
Good point.. and the funny part, is that people want to force race suits and bump hats.. yet no one seems concerned that the drivers have no safety features in the cockpit.. no seatbelt, race harness, fire extinguisher etc etc etc.
All of this really just makes me chuckle and I pity the people who really think holding a £50 plastic wheel staring at a flat screen makes them some kind of real racing driver....... fsckin retards
Actually this was around way before (read: back in S1 days) I entertained writing an app to do it. Can't even remember how I came across the byte in the PLY file to change it now as that definitely never used to be the way back then.
It was never coded with a particular audience in mind.. I'm just a coder and like experimenting. I just don't see how this can make LFS any less realistic when you have barriers that launch you to the moon, infinite sized cogs for gearboxes in road going cars, no rollcage in road going cars (not a requirement for track days, but amateur racing with the likes of slightly modified street cars (Ford RS Challenge springs to mind) require such devices), no fire extinguishers in any car(!) and no driver restraining devices. While LFS is good, it's nowhere near realistic when viewing the whole picture.. regardless of how good the tyre / suspension physics might be.
I can understand some things in this thread.
1. Some people's immersion is ruined by the use of this option.
2. Some people link their sense of realism in a simulation with said immersion.
3. The game already allows a check for this option, via 3rd party apps, and it can be enforced by a server to disallow it's use.
What I can't understand is:
1. What exactly is the problem that warrants 2 pages worth of (approximately the same) posts?
If you frequent a server that allows people to use said skins, why don't you just take it up to the server admins and ask them kindly to disallow it? If you own a server then disallow it yourself.
tell that to the guy who won the bmw. the platform on which people use to race on is irrelevant, just because real people compete in a virtual environment, doesn't mean that the races are not real (in a sense). but hey you made the dude, so of course you will get all defensive over it.
but back to the point. when you race side by side with another player (and you look beside you to see where he is) you don't see harnesses or fire extinguishers, but you do see their heads.
Whether prizes are real or not is immaterial.. the fact is that this is a game, it's _not_ real.
Not at all really. All I made was a tool to make the change easy, I started doing it (to find out what could be used) with just a hex editor, so I have no reason to get all defensive about it really, it's in LFS and modifiable with or without the tool I coded. And FWIW, I don't use it myself.
I did also make a post in the coder's section asking Scawen if there was a byte or 2 that could be changed in MPR files that would update the player model. I tried hacking the replay data myself with a hex editor but the bytes I found and edited did change the driver model, but also added a passenger and made the car drive around the track like a pogostick. I had planned on perhaps adding another function to LPH to "reset driver models" or whatever, but never got an answer (granted this'd have no effect while racing, but replays could be "fixed" for people wanting to make videos etc).
Maybe not.. but what about my own cockpit? I see that.. and yet still no safety devices anywhere in any of them.. and I see the contents of my own cockpit far more than I do looking across at others.
How many race tracks do you see with ramps being added to them for "stunts"? Can't remember the last race track I went to that those inplace.. yet they're part of LFS' core structure. How many cars have big invisible poles poking out the back so you can drive them like radio controlled cars? How may cars have "2 way bodies" that you can't see through from one direction, yet are entirely transparent from the inside? How many cars have a _perfectly transparent_ windscreen? How many cars have F9-F12 display screens? How many road going manual cars have gear indicators? How many cars have FPS dials mounted in the dash? How many race cars (read: GTR spec) have comfy reclining leather Recaro replicas?
IMO, there's far more important stuff to fix regarding LFS' realism factor than getting stressed over whether someone's driver has a bump hat on or not. Maybe I'm not "hardcore" enough and see LFS (or any other race sim for that matter) for what it is.. a computer game.
lol this is always so funny to read. Ian only made it easier for people to edit driver attire. The option was always there, allowed by the devs. It was easier to make the app to help people out than to keep explaining over and over how to edit them with a hex editer
He provided a service for those who were requesting it at the time. It's fine if people choose not to like it, but my goodness... the anger people show at those who do is a bit over the top don't you think? lol If admins choose to not allow it on their servers... that's fine.. their house, their rules, and I'd support them 110% on that.
Like I've said since I was first introduced to LFS. one of the best things about it is there's something for everyone regardless of age, driving styles/abilities and interests
i don't understand why you feel lots of people are getting angry over this, as i said before, i wouldn't mind it if it looked anything close to what it's meant to be, but it doesn't.
so what if it's a game. again i'll go back to what i said a post or two before. the people you are racing against are real, so the race is actually real too. the track might be fictional and the cars fictional too. but thats where all this "it's a game" stuff stops who cares if it's only infront of a screen and in the comfort of your own home and without the risk of real harm. when 2 or more people compete, then in my books the activity is just as real as taking a dump (but less painful ) a perfect example is online poker, is that also not real? real people, real money, graphically rendered playing cards..........of course it must be fake...
And in that same train of thought there's also the "who cares if one of the real players in the real race in the fictional track with a fictional car is not wearing a fictional helmet?" :P
point taken, but i was trying to put it like the driver hack reminded me of a very bad addon, nothing more. the guys nose has less drag than the nose cone from the bf1, and he has big massive ronny the robot hands (it would be better to put a skin coloured texture on the gloves of the driving suits lol)but anyways, i don't use it, i don't meet (many) people who use it. i was just posting my opinion on it, just like everyone else.
No, I don't think I'm a real racing driver when I play LFS (notice I said 'play'), and yes there are far more important things in life that shit me in a far bigger way, and I certainly don't dwell on the 'No Helmet Guy' for more than one second if I encounter him.
However part of the enjoyment of LFS for me is realism and immersion, and any sense of that is lost when the stupid guy with no helmet appears.
Having said that, I would guess it's been a year since I've seen anyone using it.
how many men do you have round you when you play lfs, telling you your race position, tyre temps and damage? that's why we have the F keys.
there's quite a few road going cars that show you what gear your in (new cars) even the wee smart car jobby did. how would you know that the seat are comfy? it's only a game......it's not real
to lighten the mood a little ... imagine yourself picking up lfs during the earlier demo test days and dropping it again because of the complete lack of helmets in the game
silly behaviour ? no not at all
Before there was some walk about some bf1 driving 300+ kph past you, now here i remember that one of the FM guys have that player hack thingy, so yeah actually that FM guy have sped past me 300+kph
But surely that would be limited pretty much to higher-end racing classes (GTR / BF1 / single seaters except MRT etc). At most for other classes, I'd expect you'd be notified if you had bodywork hanging off (that doesn't happen either, my real car falls apart when I crash hard).
Just for the record too, I know I pointed out a lot of things that I consider unrealistic.. they mostly don't bother me to any extent (although the collision detection is somewhat appalling and bugs the hell out of me at times). They were just things I know are apparent.. but also know some will be part of the ongoing WIP.. maybe the likes of safety devices etc will be a part of the cockpit updates, whenever they appear. It wasn't a "bash LFS" moment before anyone suggests it
I've never driven or been in any road car with a manual box that had a gear display indicator, but if you say some do, I won't argue that as I don't know.
lol read all the posts on the forum since it was released. Lots of people really get angry about it. Just because someone chooses to use it, doesn't make them stupid, morons or anything close. It's just a personal preference, nothing more.
i hear ya guys. but the title of this thread did indicate a rant of some form. so i would expect multiple rants about the same subject. i totally agree with you on most things you mentioned ian, and in time (we hope) they will all be fixed or made better. i for one would like to have a "wind down a window and flip the bird" button but i don't think that's on the to do list :s
i'm not too fussed on the cockpit updates because i use the custom view (wheels only), but maybe these new cockpits will be enough to make me switch to the cockpit view.
i 100% agree with you on the col-detect. sometimes it's just plain sickening. was it GPL that had the H block for the gear indicator? now that i could live with.
i think the old austins (montego)had digital speedos and a gear indicator. but they were ahead of their time and was soon dropped.
I think most things I mentioned will be fixed at some point. The likes of transparent windows is IIRC, something to do with the graphic engine's lack of ability to use multiple alpha channels at the same spot in the scene, which no doubt will be updated for S3. Some things I mentioned probably won't change, like multiple views as afterall, it is a game and although I like cockpit view, not everyone does.
Ahh good ol' classics! I didn't know they had a gear indicator in them.. only that early Maestros had that annoying "please fasten your seatbelt" voice. I do remember the old (Mk2) Astra GTEs having a digital speedo display, but can't remember exactly what was displayed on there other than speed, revs and fuel etc.
All in all, I just find it quite amusing how some can get worked up so much over this, yet stay quiet and accept other bits. End of the day it doesn't bother me either way. It does still surprise me though just how many times LPH gets downloaded. I knew some liked it, but nearing 2000 downloads from my own site I wasn't expecting considering what it is / does.
It was easier to make the app to help people out than to keep explaining over and over how to edit them with a hex editer
If admins choose to not allow it on their servers... that's fine.. their house, their rules, and I'd support them 110% on that. 
