Probably but we don't know what is on that list... patch Y should give some hint. I just meant that the day we get S2 final, it means looong waiting until new features and S3.
I'm sure everyone's eager for the next phase, but the devs never said "It will be ready on [insert date here]", so it's not like they're running late or anything
Still the product is sold incrementally and i dont think its entirely unreasonable to expect two finished parts of the product to be delivered with five plus years of development .
I dont want to sound like an arsehole but tell me where else do you pay in advance for an unfinished product and then wait for some amount of time for it to come out of alpha, beta etc etc,
I think you'll find there are very many games that are released claiming to be post beta/finished products, when they clearly are not. EA and BF2 as a prime example. patch after patch released to fix issues with very basic, core parts of the game.
Armed Assault is another game that was released unfinished and the developers openly admit it. I do like Arma and have never had issues with it, just pointing out that other companies do do it and most try to act like they aren't doing it.
You have a point, but, we have'nt paid for the game as such, we've only paid for the license to use the game on our computers, in whichever stage of development it happens to be in at the time.
Over here in the UK we pay huge amounts of cash to our beloved government to provide us with a usable road network, but by no stretch of the imagination could it ever be described as finished. I'm fairly sure its the same in OZ. And yet, we still pay. {edit} not sure what thats got to do with the topic , but it's always good to have a rant about the government, and the state of the roads
You've got to remember it's only 3 guys doing this, and there's only 24 hrs in a day. There's a limit to how much can be done, made useable and as bug free as possible in the time frame they have available.
Yes your right , and i really do understand its just three guys that have made and awesome sim.
And i hear where your coming from talking about Windows and Bf2/2142 etc etc,but they are not charging for an alpha or a beta (even though we all know most software is rushed and patched later)
and S2 has been alpha for a bloody long time.
It makes me laugh how we use that alpha tag to our advantage, we use it to defend the sim when somebody says Rfactor is better and then we say its not an alpha when someone complains (like me i guess) that it is still in alpha.
youre almost making it sound like they dont make it perfectly clear that what youre buying is a non feature complete software
of course its been in this state for a long time and of course we all would like to see it progress at a faster pace but its not like we were conned into buying it expecting something entirely different ... the filename has alpha wirtten in caps in it after all
additionally you have to keep in mind that the meaning of alpha in lfs terms is a bit different from the way its usually used during software development
while lfs is not feature complete unlike other software comming with an alpha tag its pretty much free from any bug that could make it unplayable ... and a quick look round the forum will tell you that most major bugs are dealt within a week of them showing up (something which as we all know is not a given with indy sim devs)
so in short what youre buying is not an unplayable mess of a game but something that works
or to view it from a different angle imagine lfs was sold as a finished product in its current form (maybe without any ai at all since its clearly broken)
my personal opinion is that it would still tower over all its competitors
Since LFS is already a pretty solid title in terms of bugs and playability, how about you think of it as a finished product where you're getting free expansions to add new features?
Now give me a list of software that offers the same deal.
About the public test patches. Think a similar path can be followed with Y. Only it has to be limited to the AI-part. I think it would be wise to get this part tested out fully bedore being called final.
The physics changes cant be tested this way because of it affacting hotlaps and needs a housecleaning in LFSW beforehand.
Is there any concrete evidence that devs are even working on the next major update? A lot of people seem to be convinced there's gonna be a big new thing...an S3 possibly. Why?
The next patch is well known to be incompatible and should bring a lot of improvements that have been developed over the past year but couldn't be released due to compatability issues. I can assure you the patch is being worked on (as of the last time Scawen commented on progress) and that the public test route is being considered and likely will happen once the patch is nearly ready and the beta testers have ironed out any major problems.
well, not too far. IIRC (and IIUnderstoodC), Scawen said in that episode of ASS that featured an interview with him (that was like... 2 weeks ago I think) that the plan for the next patch was to be a S2 Final. I dont think we'll get this one in Y, but Z may be the one that will finally bring us S2 Final.
It would be a bit hatstand to do the AI before the physics updates, but maybe after the incompatible stuff is all done and dusted, Scawen will start another patch blizzard. I think he will probably try and get most of the functionality done first including AI, then use public testing to fix bugs and get some polish on there.
If that`s so that it maybe going S2 final, when then it`s going to be a riot on this forum lol. Not a negative one, just a lot of people that would go insane.
I used to think that too, and I was optimistic about some useful changes until Scawen said something to the effect of "There is no unreleased code on his hard drive".
I will (edit: attempt to) find the link and post it.
S2 Alpha (up to patch Y confirmed so far) -> S2 Beta -> S2 Final
From autosimsport:
[...]
However, as Scawen has repeatedly made clear, there are certain features that must be completed to the developer's satisfaction before the sim will move even into the Beta phase. When I asked him what it would take t otget S2 to Final status, he was typically cryptic, stating simply, "When all the features have been developed, we can move to S2 Beta." S2 Beta, then will be feature-complete and ready for large scale stress testing. S2 Final will be the culmination of all existing S2 features and, one hopes, a few that have not yet been implemented.
[...]
"On my side, the largest hole is the AI drivers, who can't stay on the track in all cars or at all tracks," he [Scawen] says, "[They] will crash at the first bend when they have cold tyres if they have got used to having warm tyres, and can't drive into the pits, etc. These are clear and blatant issues apparent to someone wh owould try the AI in LFS - so they prevent the software from going to Beta." And there are other longstanding issues which one assumes will be tied up before the S2 package is delivered.
The article then goes on to talk about the graphical changes, improvements, etc. Think - what other features are currently obviously broken? When those are fixed then it goes to Beta. Simple as that. Then in Beta whatever features have been implemented will be tuned, fleshed-out and revised. That smells of things like damage modelling and aerodynamics since those features are there, not complete yet not broken.
Not sure, since he also said that it's not really true that he has to wait for an incomp patch for Eric's as well - I think even in the same post that I am looking for, but cannot find. It confused me when he said it because I could've swore I'd heard him say quite some time ago that an incomp patch was required; but maybe things have changed since that comment as it's archaic.
Ok, well, then in my mind that means engine temps since the gauge is there but not operational... And the FPS gauge has to go. I guess the new interiors should address that, who knows. Point being that it's still unclear. I.E., The racing line is there, but doesn't affect grip... is that incomplete?
Indeed I did. Although Scawen's comment is technically only true on the day of a patch release.
It's true, some of the graphical updates would not make a patch incompatible. Some would, however, and the devs are going to release them all together, so we sit and wait.
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