ok besides seeing how large a burnout people can do, I want to bring something to attention. My car, a '95 GMC Jimmy, 4WD (hi and low) / 2WD rear, with most likely a lot less horsepower than it originally had, 200 hp, V6, and i can do a burnout quite easily in overdrive

now the closest car LFS has to this car is the XRT, but the question is, whats with gripping problems? this really needs to come to attention because something is still severely wrong with the grip at low speeds, when i try to do a burnout in the XRT, even with the bias all the way up (which i can't do in my car anyway) the front wheels still slide and i do a good job of making flat spots, but absolutely no burnout
and just to ensure this i did another test, and lowered first gear as low as possible, and the torque just sent the car forward, even with max braking power, and 95% (highest) brake bias

so now i just tested it again with XR, highest bias, full brake power, lowest first gear ratio; and just barely will it do it without sliding, and this is an even lower horsepower car at 140 should pull off a burnout easily without moving... but it still does

i dont know what else to say now but.. we still dont have the right amount of grip

Tires grip better rotating then they do locked.

Technical assistance how? Sounds like an improvement suggestion to me. But I still don't get what you're saying. Are you saying the car should be stationary when doing a burnout but it moves forward even with brakes applied?

well it can't be an improvement really because its already there

i had to figure out which to put it in, i almost put it in improvements until i read this: "Discuss technical problems and questions related to LFS"
and.. this is a technical problem

yes, the car should be stationary, but it doesn't, even in the best circumstances which aren't true for any car, but just about any RWD car you can easily do a burnout, so it must be something with grip

@W4H, your.. missing the whole point

I'm getting totally diferent results. In the XRT I have absolutely no problem in leeping the car stationary while I do a burnout. The car goes nowhere for me, it just sits the spinning the rear wheels. You sure you know how to do burnouts?

lol its kinda hard not to know, i dont know what i would be doing wrong though, are you using a specific set?

I can do it with any set, but it works best with brake bias at 95%. Just rev the crap out of it in N an drop it into first make sure you don't bog it down with too much braking, once its spinning apply more brake pressure to keep the car in one place. Too much brakes and the wheels stop spinning.

see thats still not right, i got it to do that, but it started to slide just a little, it really shouldn't slide at all; nor should it require a neutral drop shift, in my car i can just put the brakes on, just rev it to about 3,000 and the wheels will spin (all in overdrive)

hm.. well i guess it could be because it is a truck, but... then again the XRT has more horsepower and more torque than the jimmy, it should pull off burnouts without a problem, so there deffinetly has to be something still wrong with low speed grip

If you're talking about an auto box then dropping from N isn't a good idea hehe. The way autos work you can just floor them with the brake on, the torque builds up and the wheels start spinning. I had a 70bhp rwd auto and it lit em up as well, it could puch the car forward with the fronts locked up.

The grip isn't perfect but I'd say it's pretty damn close. I haven't done burnouts in a 250bhp car myself so can't say exactly how it'd feel, but I'd imagine it'd be similar to the XRT, especially in a manual.

A spinning sliding tire still ahs too muck traction in LFS then a tire not sliding. In the case of a burnout the traction loss when the rear tires are spinning is not enough to prevent the front tires from sliding as well. This issue appears in other ways as well, like the way in which tire loose and regain grip. The elastisity seems to be inaccurate so there is no snap to the way tires loose and regain grip. But its dificult to explain in words.

i think your trying to tell about the differences between sliding and static friction

Yes and no. I think its partly that the static and sliding friction levels are not quite right and partly in the way traction is lost and regained. I am sure its a dam complex series of equasions and LFS's physics may not be of sufficent complexity yet to accuratly simulate these conditions right now. Increasing the static friction and lowering the sliding friction may resolve this issue but may then introduce yet more issues in to the physics model.

All tires have a slip angle at which point they achieve their maximum friction levels. Its higher then their static friction level, but once that threshhold is passed the tire will sharply drop in its effective friction to a degree and then slowly fall away even more. Radial-ply tires have a less sharp edge with lower slip angles while bias-ply tires allow for higher effective slip anqels but have a sharper edge. What allows a car to do a standing burnout has as much to do with how quickly the engine can transfer the needed torque to the tires to overcome the friction holding them to the tarmak as it does with the difference between sliding friction and static friction.

Your SUV has a very torquey engine with an early torque peak, where many of the cars in LFS are of a low torque/high HP configuration with a later torque peak. Granted in LFS the difference in grip levels from a sliding tire and a non-sliding tire are still too close.

Quote from XCNuse :

even with max braking power, and 95% (highest) brake bias

I know this poast is quite old, but I don't know if your problem was responded to correctly.

Well anyway,I as well had that impreasion, just turn the break force per wheel up, I have noticed that most people set the break force as so that when their pedal(assuming they have a wheel) is depressed al the way, they are at max force with out locking up while going straight. However, in my real car, I can easly lock up the front tires with out pushing the break pedal past halfway. So I set the beaking force to what felt as closly similar to my car, and then i was able to do as you said was un able to do.

Also bear in mind that the tyre model probably breaks down at low speeds - not noticable when you lock a wheel (when accurate tyre physics aren't that important) at racing speeds, but very noticable doing burnouts.

However, as LFS is all about race speeds I wouldn't worry too much about trying to validate it at <5mph.

for those of use who use cars that require a drivers to get from a to b (watching wheel movements in american movies and watching clarkson turn the wheel on an american car through ~100° repeatedly without the car doing anything ive come to the conclusion that american cars are somehow programmed to go from one place to another by themself and the guy behind the wheel just enjoys himself acting like hes actually driving ... much like the way i did when i was younger) ... what the hell is overdrive ?

It's an extra gear in a 'box to compensate for poor gearing choices by the mnaufacturer, usually an intermediate gear between 'box and crownwheel.

But he's referring to an auto, where the term overdrive usually means it stops the gearbox from changing up until high revs rather than on low throttle, thus keeping you closer to the right gear when driving quickly.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But he's referring to an auto, where the term overdrive usually means it stops the gearbox from changing up until high revs rather than on low throttle, thus keeping you closer to the right gear when driving quickly.

isnt that called kickdown ?

Kickdown is when the gearbox goes down a gear at full throttle.

Without overdrive the car will go to top gear when the throttle is released (e.g. entering a corner). This is bad if you are driving quickly.

With overdrive (as in an auto overdrive, not as in the additional overdrive unit) on the car will only change gear when the revs demand it, not the throttle. Although kickdown will still override that at slower engine speeds.

I'm not explaining it very well. Sorry.

To make it easier, I'll do it in the style of wheel4hummer: gearboxes are boxes full of gears. Nuff said.

ah yeah i think the confusion came from you talking about the box changing up at low revs which should be prevented by the kickdown as long as you keep your foot planted but if i caught your drift overdrive prevents always keeps it in the correct gear then ?

and now for the obvious question ... why would anyone pay for a gearbox like that ?

Most auto's have a little button on the side of the gear selector to turn on overdrive (for slow driving, using low revs) or disable it (for faster driving).

It won't make any difference to burnouts though, as they are full throttle and both modes behave the same at full throttle.

So people buy both when they buy an auto.

The obvious question is - why would anyone ever want to buy an auto. Especially car enthusiasts.

i mean autos in general but ... meh

Quote from tristancliffe :

The obvious question is - why would anyone ever want to buy an auto.

Because it's hard to find used cars in the US that have manual transmissions. BTW, the overdrive on a '96 saturn behaves differently. At 40mph, it engages the overdrive gear.

Not sure where you live but I've been driving for 7 years in the U.S. and they were all used small cars with manual trans, however they weren't American cars but who wants those anyway

Still the point stands, it's very easy to find a manual in the U.S.

As for low speed tyre grip, it's way off in every "sim" I have tried so far.
I don't know the reason for this but no one has gotten it right yet it seems.
Hence why it's such a pain to enter sharp corners property in LFS (as in realistically)

I guess your car doesn't have brand new tires on it, so...
In LFS you get brand new tires, so try to wear them a bit...

You are right though with the low speed grip. (divide by 0 error?)

eazist thing to do is drive the cars tourqe band.... real eazy in manuals but i got no exp in automatic cars ( driven them ofcourse but that was a straight line and the the car was a merc clk 230 kompessor ( tuned ) )

but i suppose, if there was an " over drive " button it would help but all carts have traction control , abs and many other extras we dont need to list.