I have to apologize to all, and especially Albeig..
Can't believe it expanded this far

I'll end this stupid quarrel on my side with this:

Sometimes you feel real old, older than you are. Check the aches and pains, the hairline, the demands of life. Responsibilities, responsibilities. Worse things have happened to all of us; the circus wasn't as good as you though it would be, the movie stunk, etc., etc....
Punching the clock, punching the wall, hating your boss. You can't go if you don't know, and you can't know if you don't go. And everybody in the world has their own song in their heads. The best songs ever. Problem is figuring a way to get them out and present them to others.
You've got to know where the brakes are. Enjoy life at a realistic pace. You crazy youngsters, what with your nightlife and everything. And it's important to trust other people, while putting stock in yourself as well. Revaluating your priorities, checking yourself daily.
Not everyone is a victim of circumstance; conversely, nobody should feel like a martyr all the time. Problem? It's hard enough to communicate these days; some of us don't even get the chance. Some others don't know they have a chance.
When you travel frequently, you find a lot of images. And sometimes, you have to try and make the best of a bad situation: more often than not, we grin and bear it. Other times, you learn to enjoy some small facet of your predicament. Nothing too elaborate, just an attempt to adjust priorities. Revolution starts at home, preferably in the bathroom mirror.
Example? Winter always comes too soon. This year was the worst I can remember, except when I was five years old. Pushed open the front door, got lost in the snow.

(Liner notes of Warehouse: songs and stories, probably written by Bob Mould)

You have opened my eyes to the Stupidty of my own actions. I hope you can forgive me as I'm just a gimpy teenager.

I hope you are sincere. There's no need to forgive you right now, as long as you accept to be treated as an adult. Your future actions will speak for yourself.

Edit: I regret a particular thing, the way I treated your music. That could well be what I think but that's not important: my opinion doesn't mean anything, having written such stuff just disqualifies me, not you or your work. I'm sorry that I used such an offensive and ridiculous expression.
You could say the same about me recording streams, falling rocks and burning fires, but I wouldn't mind. These are things that I do for my pleasure and to appreciate what I see from a different point of view. I have fun in the process, it's not important for other people to appreciate them, as long as I do.

Hmm, this is quite awkward, but who should I believe?

The guy who's actually driven the thing and knows how it should feel, or the bunch of guys who are really convinced that he doesn't know anything about racing - despite being one of the best in the world - and are really convinced he's wrong?

if you put the fact in, that he had a setup which turns his car into quite an arcaderacer, then you could have another look at it

There are two or more posts saying something like "he just says it's far from reality because he didn't engage himself with it enough / played seriously"

think about it. that's ridiculous. I mean, he even drove the real "BF1" - so if it doesn't feel exactly the same, it's not realistic. I know it's hard, but that's the way life is.
you might say it's only because of the FOV and accelerating forces, but I believe that Heidfeld is smart enough to not judge the realism only by these.

Nevertheless, of all the racing games / sims I played, LFS comes closest to reality... of course I can only say so for XFG, FXO and maybe XGT - I've never driven any openwheelers or top-end sportscars in real life.

But being CLOSEST doesn't mean being CLOSE. as well as being less accurate as LFS doesn't mean being totally off the track... which leads me to NFS. I don't like the tuning, I don't like the bodykits, the decals, the tribals and finally the NOS... but hey, take a hothatch, leave it as it is and roam the city. it does NOT behave that unrealistically. the basics are there.
Same goes for Gran Tourismo - I used to LOVE that sim. But again, the more you tune, the farther away from reality you get. But the basic handling is not that bad. It was the first sim I played that gave me an impression of how a streetcar behaves on the limits.

Last thing, "I would like to be a racer in RL". I do not understand people playing LFS and not being interested in cars, either. But it's ok. I don't care for what reasons people play certain games (as long as it's not to spoil the others' fun by ramming them in T1 :razz. I play games like that as a substitute. If I had a racetrack in my yard (if I had a yard at all, haha) and a lot of money for all the materials needed, I surely wouldn't play LFS. I think even if only fuel, tyres and car-parts and -services were cheaper I wouldn't play LFS . So yes, it's not gaming and sitting in front of a PC I love, it's driving a car. If it's vice versa for anyone - that's perfectly ok.

Quote from Vykos69 :

if you put the fact in, that he had a setup which turns his car into quite an arcaderacer, then you could have another look at it

ha. think about that: if you can make a setup that turns your car into an arcade-racer, it's not realistc.
or the other way round: if you could setup your real car that it behaves like an arcade-racer, arcade-handling would not be unrealistic anymore.

he also said, that most important impressions like speedfeeling due to eyeview / field of view etc. and G-force are just missing, and therefor it's not realistic. Besides the fact he hadnt really a go at it. Timo Glock e.g. tells that it's pretty close to the real thing, and he tested LFS at least for about 100 laps on as nat in bf1. And he knows the real counterpart pretty well too

So where is the difference then?

hmmm... of course I don't KNOW why their opinions differ that much, but I think it has to do with their experience with simulations.
I think if you don't have gaming/sim experience at all, you're more likely not to find a certain sim very realistic among other things for the most obvious reasons: pedal-feel, steering-lock, G-forces, FOV.
Imagine Fangio testing LFS... . I think he'd say it's complete crap.
A person used to the obvious limitation of a PC-based simulation will not even care about these. It gets second nature, somehow. However, it is not like in reality.
We're used to these limitations, so we can make somekind of link to the real thing, and we can enjoy the things that are modeled pretty damn well (like LFS's physics engine... with exceptions).
Maybe Glock is more of a simmer than Heidfeld. Therefore the fairly different opinons.

I still think that Heidfeld's rating has more value. Because - to put it simple - if the game was extremely close to reality, the best real driver should be the best sim-driver even without the tiniest bit of practice with the sim.
So if the general opinion is "Heidfeld hasn't practised enough" then that's an indication of the sim not being too realistic.

I hope you understand what I mean. Kind of hard to explain this in a foreign language.

This all reminds me of the late 80's, when I was playing Test Drive with a digital joystick.
"Hey Dad, you wanna drive the Lamborghini?"
But Dad couldn't drive at all.
With a very realistic sim, Dad should have been better than lil' Kiddo right from the start, even if 10-year-old Kiddo had been practising for some days.
Would this be the case with LFS? I do not really think so.

Quote from Vykos69 :

if you put the fact in, that he had a setup which turns his car into quite an arcaderacer, then you could have another look at it

Race_S ftl

Quote from Bandit77 :

I hope you understand what I mean. Kind of hard to explain this in a foreign language.

I understood, and agree completely. Maybe some people have just a different understanding and acceptance of the limitations imposed by the limited input and - especially - output capabilities of a sim when compared to reality. But you put it in a much better way.

So, both Glock's and Heidfeld's points of view may be perfectly valid at the same time, because they may observe different things.

Eh i play LFS because of my passion for racing. I love racing, and have since i was young. Just being able to drive a car and sometimes race it in real life gets the adrenaline going and keeps me happy for days onwards.. Racing is what i enjoy most in my life, and having a sim, is fun to play with. I play GTR2, not because, wow its a "sim" but because its a racing game with racing cars on racing tracks.. i couldnt care if it was shit physics. I even downloaded Gene Rally, a 2d game and i enjoy the crap out of that game big time. I set up championships and cars and do 100 laps because its racing.

I watch racing, i play racing, i sometimes do racing... im a freak =). All this stuff is just fun to do, playing LFS is to play for fun, not my career.

..though, me wanting to be a pro racer all my life has nothing to do with why i play LFS.. maybe now and then because its the closest im going to get to, but rarely..

But this is just the way i feel, you prob dont even understand what i just said but hey lol.. .