Hello, I just want to have a little rant.

The standard of driving on Race 1 is absolutely shocking at the moment, the last few nights I've seen some of the most consistently bad driving I've ever seen in my time with the game. It's actually upsetting just how bad the server has become, how hard its become to get even a half decent race.

I know Race 1 is for new drivers and so you should expect some dodgy behaviour, but over the last couple of days I have seen nothing but blatant disregard for the rules and requirements of the server. I know what you're going to say, use the report function, but if I did that I would spend more time reporting than racing, as these things happen at every corner and in every race.

My biggest bug-bears:

No overlap. Overlap is a mystery to these people. They all seem to think that they're Lewis Hamilton and that overtaking basically consists of braking 50 meters late for a corner and closing your eyes. They will have a go the minute they get close enough to do so, no matter the situation. Hmm, I think I should have a go in this fast chicane, never mind that it leads into a nice hairpin where I could make a clean move if I hang back and get a good line. Nope, I'm faster through the chicane so that's where I'll pass.

Bump-drafting. OK - bump-drafting is a perfectly illegitimate technique under the correct circumstances, but people will ride your bumper all the way into a corner, through it, and out of it. When you have another car constantly bumping you from behind it is impossible to hit your spots and lines, and if you brake a fraction early you will be sent into the barrier, with the other guy racing past going "LOL I WUN!!!1".

No giving way once taking you out. I have, point blank, never been given my position back by someone who has taken me out. Never. And given that I was taken out of every race I did yesterday, this seems rather poor. Even experienced drivers don't do it. It's frustrating to be the only person who relents their place when they make a genuine mistake.

Very bad language. I know X-System has features in place to remove people who use bad language, but it doesn't cope with the multitude of "OMG FFS YOU FUKING C|_|NT U TOOK ME OUT U FUKING COKSUKER!" that you inevitably get. I sometimes have small children who watch me race, this does not go down well.

No lifting. Ever! No one lifts, they keep their foot to the floor no matter what's happening in front of them. Even if you are braking to avoid someone who has spun, they won't. They keep their foot down and they will ram you, and if you question them about it you get "I HAD TEH LINE FFS! NOOB! LERN TO DRIV3 IDOIT!!11" for your troubles. This of course leads into the hilarious situation of someone who is five seconds a lap slower than you telling you that you brake too early for the corners. How the hell, if I'm five seconds faster than you, am I braking too early for the corners?! Do the damn math.

Anyway as I say I'm just having a rant, so please, please, don't take this as an attack on X-System, as I think it's wonderful. I just wish a CTRA admin would come on for an evening and just ban the hell out of everyone who drives like a monkey. I want my gold license damn it, and by my experiences the last few days it's going to take my months of DNFs to get it.

There there, now now

Take a few deep breathes and put you head between your knees till you don't fill giddy anymore then go and find an LX4/LX6 server and do a few races thats what I do

I'm afraid that, since getting into Race 2 and seen the difference, I have to agree. Use of the reporting system will, eventually, whittle down the idiot ratio, but until then we have to cope with it.

It has to be said that if you're not prepared to fill out reports, then nothing is going to be done about it - but I do agree with the idea of having an admin sit in on a couple of races and go on a bit of a mercy-killing spree.

Sam

I was on there the other night and now have a stack of saved reports to go through

I hear what you're saying DarkTimes. I've been thinking the same things over the past week. Luckily I got my Silver license last thursday and haven't had to set foot in Race1 since. The last times I was racing on Race1 I was actually afraid of braking for a corner when there was a driver somewhat close behind me. I kept thinking "oh my... if I brake now he's definitely going to drive straight into me", or "uh oh, I'm gonna brake for the corner and he's gonna come flying past me on the inside and take us both out". Something is seriously wrong when you constantly have to worry about these things when racing

Then again, I always say: if you don't bother filing a report then don't whine I only file a fraction of the reportable offenses that occur practically every race. You have to seriously piss me off and almost be delibarately breaking the rules before I report. That's why I've never had a report that was dismissed All my reports so far have resulted in warnings/bans.

Also, it seems to be worse in peak hours. During the day when most people are in school/at work there's usually still very good and clean racing to be had. Like has been said many times before: Race1 is just suffering from its own popularity. But uh... you're Silver licensed so why don't you race on Race2? You get 2 to 3 times the amount of points there Or let me guess... you don't like the GT cars

I like the GT cars, but with silver I have to race the UFR, and basically watch my mirrors the whole race waiting for someone to ram me off while lapping. It's about as much fun.

That's not true at all. You can race the regular GT cars but with restrictions (GT2). They're slower than the normal GT cars yes, but I've found that the majority of racers race the GT2 cars so it's not really that big of a problem Of course, I've only been on Race2 once since I got silver so it may not always be like that.

We have recently recruited a new admin, but we still preffer to work by the report method. Actually admins dont live ban at all (although we previously had a team member who had access to the admin password and who admined like this without authority, he is gone now).

Even if an admin is on the server and wishes to take action they must make a report to deal with it - and if the admin was racing they are not allowed to action the report themselves.

The way we work at the CTRA is to provide absolute transparency and impartiality. That cannot be done with admins who are driving, so the only way to do what you are asking is to have an admin sit and watch - which in our experience and because of the lack of an instant replay feature this often results in the admin not seeing the incidents that matter anyway.

Between us we spend anything up to 2 hours a day adminning the servers. So you do have an active admin, we just choose to admin in a more time effective manner than sitting and watching - waiting for an accident to occur.

Quote from Becky Rose :

...which in our experience and because of the lack of an instant replay feature this often results in the admin not seeing the incidents that matter anyway.

Between us we spend anything up to 2 hours a day adminning the servers. So you do have an active admin, we just choose to admin in a more time effective manner than sitting and watching - waiting for an accident to occur.

I have done some live administering here and there. I do the same thing as anyone else does. File a report after the race has been completed. There are little things that people do that are not really reportable but still could use some action and I do remind them, but on the whole it's not really that different than having me going through the report queue. And TBH you miss 75% of the things that happen anyways when trying to admin live.


The big thing we are asking for and you drivers actively participating here is that you/we are wanting to create professional driving atmospheres while dealing with people that just don't see the specifics of what happens on a racetrack. You can tell them and get them to agree to things until you are blue in the face, but you cannot get them to understand what your asking for until they get it for themselves. I am trying to work a better way to showcase these issues but my computer is not cooperating...

I joined Race 1 a few days ago started the first race cleanly had a nice dice for a lap or 2 then got wiped out by some idiot who dived up the inside under a yellow flag and promptly left the server. Not really what I'd call fun, it's a shame the single seater servers aren't populated anymore.

Quote from ajp71 :

it's a shame the single seater servers aren't populated anymore.

I take it you're talking about SS2 and 3? Because SS1 usually has a good many people on it as far as I know. I seldom join it myself, though.

Quote from Becky Rose :

We have recently recruited a new admin, but we still preffer to work by the report method. Actually admins dont live ban at all (although we previously had a team member who had access to the admin password and who admined like this without authority, he is gone now).

Even if an admin is on the server and wishes to take action they must make a report to deal with it - and if the admin was racing they are not allowed to action the report themselves.

The way we work at the CTRA is to provide absolute transparency and impartiality. That cannot be done with admins who are driving, so the only way to do what you are asking is to have an admin sit and watch - which in our experience and because of the lack of an instant replay feature this often results in the admin not seeing the incidents that matter anyway.

Between us we spend anything up to 2 hours a day adminning the servers. So you do have an active admin, we just choose to admin in a more time effective manner than sitting and watching - waiting for an accident to occur.

I can't diss the work that you or any of the admins do, and I understand the way that the servers are manned. I just feel that over the last week or so there has developed a culture of bad racing practices. I understand that a live admin will miss 75% of the infractions on a server, but there is a lot to be said for their sheer presence during a race, as a little reminder that there are rules to obey. For the last few weeks I have had outrageous fun on Race 1, but recently I've found the general attitude to be extremely poor, more serious than that which a couple of reports can resolve. Anyway, as I said, don't take it as a personal attack, I know there are other servers which are worse, but I just miss the good solid racing of the last few weeks. Rant over. Group hug.

I`m quite a newbie too at this game and started my career on the race1 server a couple of weeks ago.

I think, the problems you guys mention are mainly related to new drivers attitude, which is mostly formed by hollywood movies and arcade games. It's really important, that new drivers accept from the early beginning, that they can and will not win races instantly. Instead they should enjoy the learning process they will undergo even if it costs a lot of patience. Sure, everybody makes mistakes, but there seem to be people who want to learn from their failure and those who blame others or silently disconnect. People who are really willing to learn how to race, enjoy a fight for 11th postion as much as leading the race.

With this attitude in mind, it is not frustrating at all to score no points and therefore it wont lead to uncontrolled, overaggressive bhaviour.

Eventually this is why you Pro-drivers should hold the LFS-spirit of fair and realistic racing high, even if its sometimes ungrateful, trying to explain such "Days of Thunder"-Heroes, what it's all about.

I unfortunately admitt that i'm in agreement with DarkTimes on this.
I was looking forward to S2 license in order to get rid of demo standards but my attempts at CTRA1 server are ot very encouraging. I must say I am a noob at S1 tracks so I start towards the end of the grid and usually brake (too) early at the corners. I also have unadapted sets. My main goal is to have fun and race as cleanly as possible to learn the tracks properly, but that is hard. Usual scenario:
Start around last
T1 massive wreck --> I'm in the first half of the race!
T2 I get caught up by the unfortunate and fast from T1 and wrecked...

Second thing I notice, during the first lap when I see yellow flag I lift and watch out, because it means trouble. So true! This is precisely when I get rammed by a car going full throttle into the mess ahead, "if I make it I pass 8 cars, if not I'll try next race".

So overall I'm a little bit disappointed with the driving standards of CTRA1 / lower end of the grid, although I am not sure of my driving standard.

I'll come back anyways.
Many thanks to CTRA dev team.

Hi every1,

I'm still a newbie at this game but, like Jack_Torrence said, I'm still learning how to drive and enjoy a fight for the 11th place. I'm trying to be as clean as possible so that later I can develop on my speed.

The main problem here, as I see it, is that online racing games don't have the same risk to the driver as IRL. There are no consequences when ramming your car full throttle against a wall.

I think this kind of behavior from some drivers will only stop when consequences are included in the game (if they're ever going to be implemented). Things like: "If you break your engine, you're out for 15 minutes while the engine is replaced" or "If you're responsible for an accident you'll be suspended for 10 minutes".

This could be related to the user and not the server, so that the driver couldn't jump between servers and keep playing. Although, if it was only server related, it would also be very good.

I can understand that the suspension related to an accident requires human interaction to make sure the decision is fair, making it harder to implement and execute. But the suspension related to damages in the car would make people drive cleaner, and is just a matter of checking the damage at the end of each race. A simple 5 minute waiting period is enough to make them sit-out on the next race and think about what they did. Could also be race-related instead of time-related (e.g. 2 races waiting period).

This would have to be implemented in a way that if the user left the server and came back, the waiting period would continue. Meaning, user A wrecks his car (and 6 other), finishing the race with something that used to be a car but is now unrecognizable. This user would get a 10 minute waiting period (for example). He would say "I'll just play for 10 minutes on another server and come back to play here again" and leaves after 1 minute passed of the waiting period. He would play for 10 minutes on another server and when he came back, there were still 9 minutes left on the first period, forcing the user to wait for the entire waiting period before being allowed to race on that server again. I don't know if this could be done, but I don't think it's hard to keep a user in spectator mode for a period of time and detect if he's disconnected.

This would show people that there's going to be consequences for their actions and this is what's being done in all competitions of every sport known to man, and in all other areas of our life too. If you do something wrong, you'll suffer the consequences. This motivates people to try and do the right thing.

Without repercussions, society would just be a big uncontrollable animal cage. Think about it.

Just my $.2

Cheers
Nunes

Quote from NunesPT :

Hi every1,

I'm still a newbie at this game but, like Jack_Torrence said, I'm still learning how to drive and enjoy a fight for the 11th place. I'm trying to be as clean as possible so that later I can develop on my speed.

The main problem here, as I see it, is that online racing games don't have the same risk to the driver as IRL. There are no consequences when ramming your car full throttle against a wall.

I think this kind of behavior from some drivers will only stop when consequences are included in the game (if they're ever going to be implemented). Things like: "If you break your engine, you're out for 15 minutes while the engine is replaced" or "If you're responsible for an accident you'll be suspended for 10 minutes".

This could be related to the user and not the server, so that the driver couldn't jump between servers and keep playing. Although, if it was only server related, it would also be very good.

I can understand that the suspension related to an accident requires human interaction to make sure the decision is fair, making it harder to implement and execute. But the suspension related to damages in the car would make people drive cleaner, and is just a matter of checking the damage at the end of each race. A simple 5 minute waiting period is enough to make them sit-out on the next race and think about what they did. Could also be race-related instead of time-related (e.g. 2 races waiting period).

This would have to be implemented in a way that if the user left the server and came back, the waiting period would continue. Meaning, user A wrecks his car (and 6 other), finishing the race with something that used to be a car but is now unrecognizable. This user would get a 10 minute waiting period (for example). He would say "I'll just play for 10 minutes on another server and come back to play here again" and leaves after 1 minute passed of the waiting period. He would play for 10 minutes on another server and when he came back, there were still 9 minutes left on the first period, forcing the user to wait for the entire waiting period before being allowed to race on that server again. I don't know if this could be done, but I don't think it's hard to keep a user in spectator mode for a period of time and detect if he's disconnected.

This would show people that there's going to be consequences for their actions and this is what's being done in all competitions of every sport known to man, and in all other areas of our life too. If you do something wrong, you'll suffer the consequences. This motivates people to try and do the right thing.

Without repercussions, society would just be a big uncontrollable animal cage. Think about it.

Just my $.2

Cheers
Nunes

That seems like overkill to be honest. One of the points I was making is that previously the servers have been of a lot higher quality than of late. The problem basically is new drivers who have come to LFS from other racing games which reward arcade style driving, such as NFS or Forza etc.. People are just joining CTRA because it is so popular and don't pay any attention to the fact that there are simple clean racing rules which we obey.

Report.. Report.. Report.. Report.. Report..

Quote from SamH :

Report.. Report.. Report.. Report.. Report..

It's 11PM and alls well

Quote from obsolum :

I take it you're talking about SS2 and 3? Because SS1 usually has a good many people on it as far as I know. I seldom join it myself, though.

It's not the crowd of well known, well respected clean racers that it used to be. I've just tried joining, first race was fun, second race got taken out on the second lap by someone who just rammed me into the wall down the straight and am now waiting for the race to end so I can report (a different) blatant wrecker before I go off for a bit of RBR

Quote from DarkTimes :

That seems like overkill to be honest. One of the points I was making is that previously the servers have been of a lot higher quality than of late. The problem basically is new drivers who have come to LFS from other racing games which reward arcade style driving, such as NFS or Forza etc.. People are just joining CTRA because it is so popular and don't pay any attention to the fact that there are simple clean racing rules which we obey.

Hi,

I know it seems a bit overkill. Maybe a different approach might be in order.

CTRA servers (especially Race 1) are starting to become victims of their own popularity (as someone said). Something must be done to allow players to have fun and develop their skills on the starting servers without having to rely on sheer luck to go round T1 (for example).

I believe the reporting feature may be a solution, but as I have never used it, I can't talk about it's efficiency. Reviewing a situation with the replay seems to be the best solution for banning persistent kamikaze's.

For me, I'll go with the flow for now and keep driving at my own pace and hope for the best. Just waiting to get my Silver license to go to Race 2 :P (still a few points to go)

Cheers
Nunes

ajp71 Mentioned what part of the issue is. The drivers racing the first tier are newish drivers new to racing in this type of environment. Before there was plenty of 'older' LFSers who on the whole have done a few leagues at least and already have the basic knowledge to avoid potential accident situations which these new drivers currently lack.

There is another semi solution besides the reporting system, which IMO is the best way to combat these issues. Hopefully I can get my arse in gear and get something done to show what I mean =)

Well i see a lot of talking on race 1. It seems the opened a can of new drivers and there found there way to SS.
I was awful last night. I know fill out a report. I will after I have given them a couple off changes.

Nothing wrong with new drivers but they dont seem to know the rules set by CTRA. Althought you have to klik OKE on agerment before you can enter. Saying sorry is a hard word nowadays and acting on sorry seems to be even worse.

O sorry i kicked you off no I wont wait for you thanx for your spot.

This seems to be more to become common instead of being a incident. Shame it takes the high quality of racing down a bit wich is 1 of the most important reasons why I joined CTRA.

There is only so much you can squeeze on a rules page that people dont bother reading anyway.

The problem is the people who need to listen are those least likely to, and unless we develop an exam system or a special training server for sub 10k mile drivers (which would destroy the accessibility of the CTRA) there isn't much we can do.

I read posts, and i'm not picking out any particular driver here, where people say "I braked early and he hit me up the back." and my instant thought is, "did you brake hard and without warning before the braking marker then coplain when he hit you?".

I often brake gently when I have a less experienced driver behind me. So you see, this is a difference brought about by experience, and Race 1 + Single Seater 1 are not meant to be for experienced racers, I expect many drivers there to brake with wheels locked every corner and to not allow that bit extra for cars around them. As a result I have less accidents.

Well actually I dont know how true that is as i'm a bit out of practice at the minute, but I have less accidents 'with other cars' .

Thats what I do aswell. I also don't make aggressive moves and wait for corner exits to pass. Passing on entry with a newish driver is extremely risky, chances are they will not see you. If there is a newer driver behind me I do brake a bit earlier and prepare myself for them missing the brake point so I don't get tangled up.

Some people may say that you shouldn't have to drive like this, but if you want to finish the race you don't have much of a choice with these new drivers. Mistakes are going to happen.

I think training is the next step for finding a solution. Hopefully I can get my computer connected to the internet. Having issues with the networking drivers now...grr. Never had this problem before.

Quote from Becky Rose :

There is only so much you can squeeze on a rules page that people dont bother reading anyway.

The problem is the people who need to listen are those least likely to, and unless we develop an exam system or a special training server for sub 10k mile drivers (which would destroy the accessibility of the CTRA) there isn't much we can do.

I read posts, and i'm not picking out any particular driver here, where people say "I braked early and he hit me up the back." and my instant thought is, "did you brake hard and without warning before the braking marker then coplain when he hit you?".

I often brake gently when I have a less experienced driver behind me. So you see, this is a difference brought about by experience, and Race 1 + Single Seater 1 are not meant to be for experienced racers, I expect many drivers there to brake with wheels locked every corner and to not allow that bit extra for cars around them. As a result I have less accidents.

Well actually I dont know how true that is as i'm a bit out of practice at the minute, but I have less accidents 'with other cars' .

NO i dont mean you have to develop a examserver or something similar. I started thinking about it today and came up with the following:

When people hit the CTRA server for the first time they have to fill out a password on website. Inst it posiible to make it that they cant race without that pass ?. If it is possible they have to read the general page about rules and stuff before they enter a pass.
I dont know if it is a option just a thought.

@becky : Sure I am always aware of new drivers in front or at the back. It seems to me the first corner crashes are dropping but the crashes in race are getting bigger. When people spin off and get back on track without watching is getting on mine T.TS. You can be aware but with speeds up to 200 km you just cant avoid the accident. Your off position, car that is totaly wrecked and they just drive off without saying a word. Maybe I moan too much but grrrrrrrr that is what is getting my pissed off. When you drive the SS1 in a pack off 16 or even more there is always battles around. So you cant always be aware off other things around track. And that why we are there for good battle with fair and clean racers.

This isnt a dig about CTRA dont get me wrong but it looks to me lately that mentalty of racers is dropping and they only have there thoughts set to gaining points regardless what happens.