Hey all,

Not sure if this is in the right section, but I suppose it is because I have some beginner-questions

As I'm not yet able to get a wheel on my hands in my new place of residence, I've started looking for some alternatives to using my trusty Logitech DF, as I did back home.

I have a mouse and a joypad. Both of these have some advantages, and both have quite a bit of disadvantages.

I've decided to go with my mouse anyway, as it allows me to steer much more smoothly than with my lame joypad (even with the analogue stick I just can't make minor corrections) but there are still some problems which keep me from lapping decently.

After about 5-10 practice laps with the 'latest' PartyBoy setup (I guess he's still a mouser?) I lap around 1.36.50 at my best around the classic combo of BLGP/XRG. I know exactly where I lose time, too:

- I can't trailbrake, or do any kind of advanced braking actually, since my right-mousebutton is just on or off, which means I can't break smoothly - or at a less-than-full rate.

- I can't seem to get used to the fact that the wheel doesn't auto-center. It's hard for me to know how much I'm steering, and how much I need to steer back to center the wheel. I'm currently just staring at the white line on the center of the wheel, but this takes some focus and I wouldn't like to do this online.

- If I'm ever going to race competitively, especially in a RWD, I'll need smooth acceleration - not going to happen with a mouse I suppose? I tried pumping, but it just upsets the car without being able to regulate the amount of throttle properly.

So anyway, what I'd like to know is if there are any tips to making it more bareable to play with a mouse, especially when looking at my current problems. My setups and style when I was actively racing with a wheel relied on accuracy, smoothness and sensitivity, and currently I tear around the track like a rocket-powered truck - I hate it.

Tips and advice are welcome!

Before i got my G25, i used a tablet, these are relitely cheap, similar to a mouse but easier to use i think.

Keyboard!

Quote from Jertje :

Best alternative to a wheel?

Paddles

I was a mouse racer for a long time and I do have some tips that will make it much more controllable.

First off, map your keyboard to brake and throttle for your left hand. Now map your mouse buttons to shift up/down.
This has a dual purpose.
First it gives you more control and less chances to fumble buttons trying to brake, accelerate and steer.
Second has to do with computer drivers and potential hardware restrictions.
Trying to steer brake and stabilise the car with the mouse at the same time can have response issues between the mouse, drivers and your PC.
By separating the important commands to 2 devices (Kb and Mouse), 2 different sets of drivers take care of only one input at a time...I hope this makes sense.

Another extremely important setting for RWD is Button Control Rate.
In LFS, its set to 4 by default. This is too responsive for powerful RWD cars as the power is either full on or full off.
Lower this to mid to low 2's and hitting the button will smoothly apply throttle in LFS.
This helps greatly in corner outs and braking without locking. Just make sure to brake a tad earlier this way, or you will overshoot the corner.

Good luck. I hope this helps a bit.

As a flightsim enthusiast I have an old ms-sidewinder joystick, (broke down a few times, but always easy to fix so just keeps on going) I also race with that, not having oriented myself in steeringwheels or willing to cough up the cost for one yet.
But because I think LFS is the best thing since Pacman I probably will at some point.

I think you can race competitive with a joystick, besides not being able to accelerate and brake at the same time there's not really a downside. There is ergonomic, I can't race very long periods at a time which I think you can (more easely) with a steeringwheelset. Depends a bit on how heavy springed the joystick is and how big your arm is and how relaxed you go around. (and how much training you got during puberty)

Hmm, actually there's an advantage of being able to steer lock to lock or to any angle really fast with a joystick, but that's not realistic so I try to avoid that. With LFS that became a lot easier after discovering that headturning-with-steering option, which makes my steering much smoother because sudden changes in steering are annoying now, and I tend to correct slides much more with throttle then with fast steerinputs like I would before. It's really a nice option.

Having recently had the chance to have a short try with a (i believe it was) G25, there's no competition, the steeringwheel gives a true driving experience and i was amazed, joystick only a lousy getby if you don't have anything else. I think the same goes (or especially) for keyboard or mouse. Just get or use your steeringwheelset.

I find the XBox 360 pad with its dual analogue triggers quite nice for driving games. You of course need some damping and non-linear steering to go with that, but even RBR is managable after a while.

Just remember to get XBCD360 drivers instead of the official drivers, which curiously support neither rumble nor separate trigger axes.

I started with joystic and found it very good, though you have to fiddle with smoothness. It gave full analogue control, but not as good as my wheel though

Ven

Quote from Jertje :

- I can't trailbrake, or do any kind of advanced braking actually, since my right-mousebutton is just on or off, which means I can't break smoothly - or at a less-than-full rate.

As someone else already suggested: use mouse buttons for gearshifts, and keyboard keys for throttle/brake. I found it much easier. The downside: it's impossible to chat while driving.

Quote :

- I can't seem to get used to the fact that the wheel doesn't auto-center. It's hard for me to know how much I'm steering, and how much I need to steer back to center the wheel. I'm currently just staring at the white line on the center of the wheel, but this takes some focus and I wouldn't like to do this online.

Use cockpit view, with steering wheel and driver's arms displayed. That is a larger visual clue.

Quote :

- If I'm ever going to race competitively, especially in a RWD, I'll need smooth acceleration - not going to happen with a mouse I suppose? I tried pumping, but it just upsets the car without being able to regulate the amount of throttle properly.

The fastest mouse drivers use tapping (for the throttle). If it still upsets the car, you could try to tweak the setup so that it has less power-on oversteer. Another thing to tweak is the button control rate option.

You could also lower the brake force: if it's less than the maximum, then you can start turning in while still braking (= trail braking, sort of), without locking up the wheels.

Quote :

So anyway, what I'd like to know is if there are any tips to making it more bareable to play with a mouse, especially when looking at my current problems. My setups and style when I was actively racing with a wheel relied on accuracy, smoothness and sensitivity, and currently I tear around the track like a rocket-powered truck - I hate it.

Mouse driving is a different art. (I have the reverse: I bought a wheel recently, and have trouble getting the laptimes that were normal when I drove with the mouse. It takes me a lot of re-learning.) That said, consider buying a wheel soon. Because once you have gotten used to the mouse, you may have trouble switching back to the wheel again, when the time comes.

Quote from LFSn00b :

A joystick is imho a good alternative for wheel. If you want, i can send you a really old joystick

you think you can send me it niko

You can't accelarate smooth?

Go to:
Options-Controls - Wheel/js

Set Throttle / Brake axes combined

Go to:
Axes / FF

Press on: Steer, choose axe: Mouse X
Press on: Thr / Brl Combined, choose axe: Mouse Y


Now start race and move your mouse up, car will start accelerate smoothly. Move mouse down, it will brake slowly.

Thats all

Quote from Ferroc :

You can't accelarate smooth?...

Man you are genius! Thank you very much.:laola:

Try thrustmaster dual power 2/3

forcefeedback has some use and the tow analogue sticks are very good.
buttons areprogrammable, but is nog needed for lfs, since lfs is well written and supports all the buttons. Lfs is also one of the few games with which the forcefeedback of this dual analogue gamepad works well.

I usually race in the upper areas of leagues and I use a joystick, so I'd say a joystick's a pretty good replacement. :-' Top half of the throttle = throttle, back on the stick = brakes. Wrist strain in a long race is kind of a problem, uncomfortable to use a joystick with that much wrist action for long periods of time. (But long = 1 hour plus races)

My joystick seems a little slow on acceleration and a bit too quick in the corners, so I tend to spin a lot... Is there any way to fix this?

i use the mouse

Quote from Peteuplink :

My joystick seems a little slow on acceleration and a bit too quick in the corners, so I tend to spin a lot... Is there any way to fix this?

yes there is.... start drifting

Before I got a wheel I used the mouse for steering and a joystick for acceleration and breaking. It was pretty efficient exept that i couldn't use left foot breaking

Joystick. Simple. It is the next best thing to a wheel.

I use Logitech Rumble Pad 2 Joypad (similar shape to ps2) I have managed to get quite fast with it and deffinatly alot better than keyboard in my opinion, never tried mouse so cant compare.
Another tip foe people using LOGITECH joypads, if your still having trouble with sensativity on anolog sticks look for a program called "Logitech Profiler" allows you to edit further sensativities and dead zones out side of the game.

One problem I've noticed with a joystick is that some models don't allow you to give full throttle/full turn. Mine is this way, I can give full throttle and turn about 1/2 of the way, but if I turn any harder it backs off on the throttle. Don't know how I could fix that...

I have a Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold USB.

Because your joystick is based on a circular formation, rather than a square (you know, at the bottom of the stick, what would be the 'gate' if it was a gearstick)