The online racing simulator
Yeah, your right, my driving on the racing line well away from where you had crashed but stupidly hitting a car which couldnt give a crap about what else was going on around it and selfishly was just reversing from safety into the middle of oncoming traffic was completely my fault!

As for this line:
"Yellow flag? Incident ahead? Mean anything to you? I was trying to clear a dangerous part of the track (blind corners) and rejoin the race."
Not only HILARIOUS, but i think you'll find HYPOCRITICAL too, based on the fact that the SECOND time in 3 laps that you'd rolled it there, there also happened to be a yellow flag being given to YOU but you carried on full steam ahead and rolled it... again.
The first time you crashed you just carried on full steam after spinning it, you did exactly the same thing the 2nd time round too.

When *I* got the yellow flag i'd already passed 2 corners and you had just come into sight, up against the barriers, and apparently quite ignorant of everything else going on around you while you reversed into my path!
Not once were you looking backwards, you were facing forwards the entire time, meaning you MUST have seen me coming, yet despite this you carried on reversing, when you finally spotted me coming you put about 30% brake on and 40% throttle, by the time i'd hit you the most considerate brake/throttle you'd applied was 40%/30% and that was when you were right in the middle of the road!

"I was trying to clear a dangerous part of the track"
You were parked well off the racing line, you then reversed into the path of oncoming traffic, how is that clearing yourself into a safer part of the track than where you originally were?? The only people ending up over there are people who've crashed like yourself, they're already in danger, putting the car right into the middle of the track isnt what i'd call clearing yourself from harms way!
Had your car been in the middle of the road to begin with and you tried to move the car away and i ended up going the same way you did, then thats fair enough, however your car was never in a position that compromised other drivers, as you know damn well, so quit the innocent act.

"However, do yellows not apply to you, and you can drive into anything slower than you with no fault whatsoever?"
Yellows apply to me when i get warned of them, your car was well out of the way and of no danger to me where you were at that time. It wasnt MY actions that changed that situation, it was yours!

"If this really is the "standard" of drivers in leauges then I'll not bother"
If by 'standard' you mean 'capable' then yes, its a requirement!
Maybe you should try and learn more than just how to drive quickly, because racing is about far more than just yourself being quick, its about being aware of whats going on around you and sparing a thought for others instead of instantly and selfishly acting in your own best interest at the risk of others.


So, if your going to go down the high & mighty route, make sure you know what your talking about, because I had about a 1 second warning, less if you factor in the time to realise someone is stupid and selfish enough to start reversing into the middle of the road and then start to park it when it was right on the corners apex! You on the hand were warned by yellow flags way in advance, ignored it, crashed, didnt look if anyone was coming on the map and just started reversing!
When you can highlight a part of my comment which wasnt accurate then feel free to point it out, till then i stand by every word of it, everyone makes mistakes, but its your actions after them which completely disregarded anyone else that was racing that makes you a bad driver who can quite easily spoil other peoples race by actions that are easily avoidable.


The snapshots from the game show you had a yellow well in advance and you accelerated flat out through it with complete disregard to its warning, they also show the moment (no more than 0.25sec after) i got the message, your car isnt particularly visable at this resolution but it is just about at a proper resolution, but the final 3 show your car safely out of the way then suddenly parking right across the apex of the corner.
Attached images
christofire.jpg
thank goodness this was a test only......

now, I don't know about many of you but after that test (and I got taken out on T1 of the 2nd race - Once I realised it was as a result of a great JAKG roll, I gave him a dig in the ribs and we moved on!!!) I can't wait to do some more baby_r racing. Rather than bitching about each other, move on, help out the organisers with constructive criticism and lets have a great league!
#28 - Dru
I too would like to see us moving on from the test race discussion and be more talkative about the format of racing and what peoples concerns are for the series and NOT personal attack on what driver X did or did not do

By all means if there are issues, then highlight them.

For instance, a crash at the high speed sweepers.

You have 3 choices:

1. Go to spectate
2. Do some sort of crazy 'think it's best manouvere' to get out of the way
3.Do nothing and wait.


1. Not recommended - unless you are on your roof
2.Not recommended - unless you crashed on your own and you KNOW that there is no one at the accident scene or APPROACHING it. Sure it is instinctive and you wanna carry on, but only do it when it's safe.

I would imagine that option 3 is the best.

3.If you spin and you are in the confines of a street circuit the best thing is to do nothing until the road is clear, and your radar says its clear.

That way also approaching traffic does not have to second guess where you are.

Also that means then, if approaching crashes into you and they haven't lifted then the fault of the next action is there's as they did not approach Yellows with caution.

I feel that this weeks Practice race will HAVE to be another SO round (one of the 3 tracks we are running) and also an open track, like one of the FE's or AS's.

Look forward to all of your participation and feedback as a result of another successful test


Best Regards,



Dru.
Quote from Dru :At Aston I was hit out end of lap one/beginning of lap two by a 'lunger'

how you can think to pass a guy on the limit after going the same speed down the stright and being 5 car lengths behind at the point he brakes at 75 metres is un-belivable - still those things will be ironed out and if those sort of things continue to occur the those type of drivers will be asked not take part.

After that i was dead last. i came up to Jamie B at the point before Eau rouge, the yello flag came out, i stepped off the gas so not to pass her but she did too ~(Despite it being clear ahead of here) and we promptly crash

People need to gain race craft skills, sure there will be times when people hit accidently , but over the next 4 weeks we need to stamp out the stupid incidences and also sort out the bad drivers.

mostly the racing was great 3/4 wide going along the straights and at least 2 wide going around corners, if you miss your chance to overtake the guy in front, chances are the guy behind will get the run on you.

This series will be great as soon as we've ironed out a few little bugs....


btw practice makes perfect

Regards,


Dru.

Sorry to confess I was your "lunger"
As you can see if you check my stats I am not experienced nor fast, and my mistake was due to poor car handling / racing in close pack (and of course lack of experience in handling pressure). I was unfortunately not even trying to pass on the inside but rather missed the turn and braking point, shame on me.
I have no intention to participate in the league because my driving is not consistent enough for such an adventure and also because my LFS time is erratic.
Anyways this car is a fantastic idea and quite accessible, so thank you ZWR for organising this event.

Please accept my sincere apologies for your race, I hope it was the only racing incident I caused apart from rolling the car all by myself last lap, last turn

PS You were not dead last... I did wait for you to re-pass .
Well, I have only read it surfacely, but this argument above just remembered me on these scenes in american Racing (e.g. Paul Tracy or Juan Pablo Montoya fighting with their fists instead of fighting cleanly on track *please don't correct this if it's wrong, was just a thought and is more OT*)
The Problem about SimRacing is that you can't get hurt, so you don't really get a respons an accident. I know that adrenaline and so on can heat the athmosphere up, but in a series with that many drivers it requires as much professionality as in SimRacing serieses with more prestige. You need to drive with that kind of professionality you cool down after an incident and "look into the whole world" That means try to relax a moment and take Dru's 3rd Point serious.
I try it, wich doesn't mean I'm always doing it, but it is even for your adventage:

If you make a move to recover, traffic is approching ,and you hit someone, you are taken out of the race!!! (additional to that you take another one out and you will have to ague with the one you hit)
If you recover but seeing the traffic is approching and you're letting them through, you can keep on racing. Never forget, it can happen to THEM AS WELL!!! (and there will be another race if you cannot reach your targeted position)
Dru:
I'd agree, however i dont like someone quoting something ive said and trying to negate it with a collection of badly constructed lies!


I still feel SO4R isnt the best option, theres a couple of high-speed corners which are very easy to take at an acceptable speed but still end up rolling it there, its a bit like FE where it going to help create trouble by making it very easy for people to roll and create a pile-up because of it. SO4 normal doesnt really have this problem mainly because all those trouble spots are entered at much lower speeds, in reverse they all have long run-ups before them meaning people are carrying so much more speed as they turn in and if it wasnt for the stupid excessive rolling could carry that speed through easily.
What about if a specific user wrecks his car in race 1, he cannot drive his car in the following races in the round? More realistic this way and it definitely gets rid of people who prefer alternative methods of braking as opposed to pushing a pedal.

This does require not allowing shift-p and reset of course.
sounds a little tricky to police that rule.

* car crashing out due to their own mistake
* car crashing out due to close racing and LFS reacting badly to innocent side-by-side racing
* car crashing out due to someone else taking them out

The first requires the driver spectating the next race, not too tricky to check, the 2nd punishes someone for LFS's inability to do collision detection cleanly, the 3rd punishes someone because of another persons actions. In the 3rd instance for realism you'd still refuse that person into the race if the point of this is if you cant finish a race then you effectively miss the next one while your 'repairing' it, and you'd need a incident review if you were to punish the causer of their crash, while they still get to race in that race.
Its real i guess, but it certainly sucks if your on the wrong end of it and only really pays off if you caused your own punishment, if LFS is to blame or another drivers actions then it means you cant race when really you havent done anything that should deserve it.
#34 - Dru
Quote from PaulC2K :Dru:
I'd agree, however i dont like someone quoting something ive said and trying to negate it with a collection of badly constructed lies!


I still feel SO4R isnt the best option, theres a couple of high-speed corners which are very easy to take at an acceptable speed but still end up rolling it there, its a bit like FE where it going to help create trouble by making it very easy for people to roll and create a pile-up because of it. SO4 normal doesnt really have this problem mainly because all those trouble spots are entered at much lower speeds, in reverse they all have long run-ups before them meaning people are carrying so much more speed as they turn in and if it wasnt for the stupid excessive rolling could carry that speed through easily.

Touble is we already have SO Town (SO5) as the last round an enduro event.

MAybe, just maybe, it would be worth changing SO4R to SO4 and then making the Enduro at SO5R, that or of course a 60 minutes shoot out at KY1
Fern Gold ........... :hidesbehi
1 SO track is enough :-), better have more room, than having a finish with 4 racers.
Not sure SO5R is much better, im just trying to think of hotspots that will encourage dangerous manouvers or can create problems that can result in multiple car pile-ups etc and see if they can be avoided in some way.

I dont see why KY2 or BL1 couldnt be used (3.2m & 2.1m), BL1 is only slightly longer than AS Club and FE Green (both 1.9m), and we already have 2 Aston tracks, 2 Fern Bay tracks and 3 South City tracks, yet no Kyoto, Westhill (3.2m) or Blackwood.
If SO4 (2.5m) was dropped then another track like KY2, BL1 or WE1 could easily replace it and it'd be a brand new location, similar distance that would work well as a 2 race venue (as SO4R was to be) with a good 20-30 laps for each.

The South City venues are one of the few that requires these cars to brake for a reasonable number of corners, i went on FE3R for a few laps last night and found i only brake for 2 corners, one of which was minor, the rest you can momentarily lift and just power on through.
KY2 would have 4 braking points IMO, uses about 90% of the oval which could be dull dull dull, but doesnt have any dodgy corners.
BL1 (maybe BL1R?) has 3 braking points (Rev =4 i think) but no hotspots, another long straight but no worse than SO4/FE3.
WE1 might only have 2 brake zones, i think a few of those could probably just require a little lifting and rolling the car through the corner (not literally :razz so it might be a little bit dull.

As easy as this car is to drive, its slicks and lower power does make a lot of corners non-existant, and while its fun when you get used to how to get through some corners with very little slowing down it does remove a key part of racing if there arent places that make good overtaking spots, it seems using slipstream is the only option because you cant late-brake into corners that you dont need to brake for


Maybe tonight can be spent doing 20min practice sessions at a few other tracks, see how they feel as a potential venue if you guys agree SO4R is a little risky. It could be the alternatives just give dull flat-out racing, or maybe they've been overlooked because of their distance and your preference to 3 race rounds.
#37 - Dru
we've tried Baby-R's all ALL LFS circuits a month ago before producing the calander

the only thing i see a problem is lets imagine that we remove all the tracks that 'might' have a problem.. then we'll not have enough to make a 7 race series without doing certain tracks both ways..

I'll try and make a list

post to follow
#38 - Dru
  • Blackwood (BL)
    • 1: Grand Prix - Pretty Boring
    • 1: Reverse Grand Prix - Pretty Boring
  • South City (SO)
    • Classic - Little bit Dangerous but nice[/COLOR]
    • Classic Reverse - Very Dangerous.
    • 2: Sprint 1 - no pits, not enough start places
    • 3: Sprint 2 - no pits, not enough start places
    • 4: City Long - Nice but too similar to SO5
    • 4: City Long Reverse - Little bit Dangerous but nice
    • 5: Town - nice, very similar to SO4
    • 5: Reverse Town - nice, similar
  • Fern Bay (FE)
    • 1: Club - Nice[/COLOR]
    • 1: Club Reverse - Too Dangerous
    • 2: Green - Nice a little Dangerous
    • 2: Green Reverse - Nice a little Dangerous
    • 3: Gold - Too Flat out
    • 4: Black - Too Flat out and long for close racing
  • Kyoto Ring (KY)
    • 1: Oval - Boring
    • 2: National - Possability
    • 2: National Reverse - Possability
    • 3: Grand Prix Long - Too Long
  • Westhill (WE)
    • 1: International - Too Hilly and Long
  • Aston (AS)
    • 1: Cadet - Good both ways[/COLOR]
    • 2: Club - A little boring maybe
    • 2: Club Reverse - Nice
    • 3: National - Too Long and Hilly
    • 4: Historic - Too Long and Hilly
    • 5: Grand Prix - Too Long and Hilly
    • 6: Grand Touring - Too Long and Hilly
    • 7: North - Too Long and Hilly
These coments are based on what the team members of ZWR said after we did 2 evenings of driving on these course looking for suitable track/race venues.
not everyone will love or hate the same tracks plus i think 1 visit to a track in one season is enuff, makes it more international across the LFS world. fernbay makes a great holiday spot for a few days R&R after the race meeting while westhill is a fun track imho
me i'll race what ever tracks is put in front of me
i raced KY nat & BL rev in a ufr league once before and i thought it made some great racing, but fair enough it wasnt Baby UF's
Quote from Dru :we've tried Baby-R's at ALL LFS circuits a month ago before producing the calander

the only thing i see a problem is lets imagine that we remove all the tracks that 'might' have a problem.. then we'll not have enough to make a 7 race series without doing certain tracks both ways..

I'll try and make a list

post to follow

Yeah, we definately dont want to go to the same place twice, but then we are going to South City 3 times out of 7, and FE & Aston twice each. 99% of Classic is used for Town, Town is 90% of Long.

I agree with the comments against those tracks.

How about KY2 then? The infield section is still pretty good, theres no dangerous corners/obsticles on there, although as i mentioned the oval section is going to make things very dull (unless some sort of safe autox chicanes were added?)

It might be best looking at switching the reverse to SO5 and having SO4 in normal direction. At least that way classic and town arent almost identical rounds, town would be the opposite direction.
I'd live with whatever combos were decided upon, im pretty confident i wouldnt screw up on them, however if one person does then it puts other peoples race in danger. I'd mentioned to you on msn i had my reservations about that track just before you'd said you already planned on that test session round SO4R to see how it goes, so to me Thursday only helped to confirm what i thought, everyones lack of practice helped emphasise things, but i dont think they'll make too much difference over 56 laps (2x 28).
#41 - Dru
After driving last night for about 3 hours around the streets of south city (and getting pipped by that fast Norweigan) then I can say that the major factor here for fast clean racing are the drivers.

Yes, we could change the tracks, but then i think that would just shift the arguements etc etc.

In racing you accept that some tracks present more risk than others, but then you also use that to your advantage if you've put in the practice.

Sure if you get hit out by another driver that sux, but then that COULD happen anywhere.

We will be sticking to the tracks we have already put into the Calander.

Season 3 means we can go onto some other tracks
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