Quote from chanoman315 :

....in hotlap mode... ...and in some servers I'm fast, in others no.......

Umm, not wishing to sound unconstructive, but racing is not hotlapping. Could the difference be due to there being other people around?

I usually find that my controller imputs are smoother offline, which is why I never practice for online leagues offline. Many times people have said 'i can do 40 laps on R2s here, i practiced offline'...their tyre explodes on lap 20.

I have no motivation offline so I am generally faster online when I've got people to chase.

yep it sounds like a "metal" effect causing the issue. I get it sometime.

If I am really "into" a race I am faster because my focus is that much better. As focus goes I make stupid mistakes that cost 0.1 here and 0.1 there etc

Quote from Becky Rose :

In multiplayer LFS adjusts everybodies clock to syncronise to the server time so that there is no advantage, but in single player this is not available.

Just one more reason to dismiss hotlappers .

i think thats the problem... and to the whole ppl that thought it was wind or ballast, its not wind neither ballast... ok?

Quote from Mike85 :

I would bet that rFactor demands half less effort and concentration based on the car physics. Maybe Im wrong

We really need more input from real racers who have done long races. Lately there was a new rfactor mod out, for Porsches, where they used input from a real race driver who helped them tweak the physics to be as real as possible and they say that the car is very close to a real porsche. LFS should use the same methods and it will get even better results because it has a better physics engine anyway. (although no one really scientifically proved that fact

input from real race car drivers is only useful if they already like driving simulators and play regularly.

Quote from Mike85 :

I would bet that rFactor demands half less effort and concentration based on the car physics. Maybe Im wrong

We really need more input from real racers who have done long races. Lately there was a new rfactor mod out, for Porsches, where they used input from a real race driver who helped them tweak the physics to be as real as possible and they say that the car is very close to a real porsche. LFS should use the same methods and it will get even better results because it has a better physics engine anyway. (although no one really scientifically proved that fact

How much experience of sim racing did said Porsche driver have? Has he driven rFactor before?

I bet he hasn't, and I bet his contribution is almost worthless.

Real racers (who don't play sims) can't evaluate a sim. You need a sim racer who races for real (and I'm too much of a noob at real racing to be able to contribute, before you think I'm trying to suggest me).

Also, a real driver is very often provided with a setup and just gives input to tweak the setup (also done by the team, not the driver)... Who else thinks the modders rather fudged the car data than figuring out a setup to create the desired effect?

Quote from Mike85 :

Lately there was a new rfactor mod out, for Porsches, where they used input from a real race driver who helped them tweak the physics to be as real as possible and they say that the car is very close to a real porsche.

im sure he was really helpful when it came to improving that mod
"hte engine on a porsche is in the back guys !"

actually there is an extra weight added to some of the TBo and GTR cars that is automatically added in multiplayer, but not in single player. I know for a fact that there is an extra 20 kg added to the XRT, and 30 kg to the XRR.

Quote from bbman :

No.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

No. Why would they be different? Why would Scawen make 2 different sets of physics for the same game? There are no physics differences between SP and MP.

For got sakes guys, stop giving generic answers... The fact is. you can do a lap via LFSWORLD that you couldn't do on Singleplayer, you can have lag that helps you across the lap... Of course 'YOU' don't lag, so there is no physics changes but the entity on the server/track may lag, therefore giving you a faster lap... If your from Mexico and your playing on European servers... this could easily be the explanation.

Quote from BlueFlame :

For got sakes guys, stop giving generic answers... The fact is. you can do a lap via LFSWORLD that you couldn't do on Singleplayer, you can have lag that helps you across the lap... Of course 'YOU' don't lag, so there is no physics changes but the entity on the server/track may lag, therefore giving you a faster lap... If your from Mexico and your playing on European servers... this could easily be the explanation.

What does lag have to do with physics? The question was are there differences in physics between offline and online? The answer is simply "no". It's short, sweet, and to the point. "No, there are no differences between offline and online physics." That is the same as saying "no" without reiterating the original question. If anyone needs to know what the answer "no" is from only reading that one particular post, all he needs to do is move up a post and read the original question. It saves a lot of unnecessary typing by the one who is answering "no".

Which way is easier for you to answer with when I ask "are you from Pennsylvania in the US?" "No", which requires only a single click of the mouse, typing 2 keys on the keyboard, holding an additional key if you'd like to capitalize "N" and adding an additional key if you want to end the simple 2 letter answer with a period? Or is it simpler for you to answer, "No, I'm not from Pennsylvania, I'm from someplace much farther away than Pennsylvania. Besides, I have no idea where Pennsylvania is, other than in the US as you stated in your questioning as to whether I'm from Pennsylvania." See, much easier just to get to the point and say "no".

Slipstream.

Quote from BlueFlame :

For got sakes guys, stop giving generic answers... The fact is. you can do a lap via LFSWORLD that you couldn't do on Singleplayer, you can have lag that helps you across the lap... Of course 'YOU' don't lag, so there is no physics changes but the entity on the server/track may lag, therefore giving you a faster lap... If your from Mexico and your playing on European servers... this could easily be the explanation.

No

:P

Scawen's said that lag doesn't affect multi-player times.

Probably because its timed locally the laptime and synced/sent to server.

Interesting post, if only because I wondered the same thing just a few days ago. I didn't think anyone would take me seriously if I suggested that physics could change per server, and I admit I like Becky's explanation the best.

On a server with no wind, and enough space on track to lap comfortably, I couldn't do my usual time at my "home" track that I practice on regularly offline. (in XFG so no weight restrictions or anything)

oh well, at least I'm not the only one who's mind is playing tricks on me

Quote from chanoman315 :

Hi... i noticed that yesterday while practicing to a race..
I was doing the test drive, in hotlap mode i did about 25 laps FOX@Ky2r, all of that with the same tyres making high 39's and low 40's alll the way.... and while playing my tyres last around 5 laps using the same set, making the same times, and in some servers I'm fast, in others no, the same combo though... for example, in one server i can go like .2 off WR, and in another i cant even get into .5 off WR no wind of course. My question is are the speed or physics different in single player or multiplayer through different servers?

i hope i explained myself....
Thanks for reading
Cheers!

I've noted the same thing and I've posted this in a few forums and people treat me like either I'm crazy or a computer newbie.

I don't think it's a physics issue but perhaps either a server or CPU issue. I drive GP4 a lot and when I upgraded my CPU the cars became so fast, I can't handle them.

But it is a fact that I can do real well off line and my car turns into a dog online with other racers. I thought my slow CPU could be the cause but that was dismissed by the infinite knowledgeable minds in LFS.

Quote from Becky Rose :

There is another factor here, but it is quite complex.

Computers measure time in milliseconds, but the hardware that does this is typically cheaply put together and not very accurage. It can actually vary as much as 5% each way.

What this means is that when you are in single player a second for you might be 0.95 of a second or 1.05 of a second, or more likely somewhere nearer the middle.

Now this in itself means nothing, as the physics are tied into the milliseconds too (one physics cycle every 5 milliseconds) but for the human playing the game, it can translate to slightly more reaction time.

In multiplayer LFS adjusts everybodies clock to syncronise to the server time so that there is no advantage, but in single player this is not available.

Just one more reason to dismiss hotlappers .

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

first of all, computers do not measure time in miliseconds. the clock on a computer running at 2 GHz ticks 2 million times for every milisecond of time that goes by.

second, if computer clocks were out by 5%, that would mean your clock would drift by 72 minutes a day, and this guy's online/offline speed difference would be 5-10 seconds per lap, which is clearly not happening. i would say the average computer clock is at worst 100 times more accurate than that, meaning the biggest difference you would ever see would be less than a tenth of a second per lap, but that's assuming that the clock adjustments in multiplayer are actually big enough to cause entire frames to be missed, and that's a HUGE assumption. with 2 million clock cycles per milisecond, and 10 miliseconds per physics update, there are 20 million clock cycles to tick by per physics update, and most computers will be sitting for a long time between physics updates anyway, waiting for the next tick. there is a ton of room for computers with different clocks to add or subtrack ticks and still keep in sync with each other, and never miss a frame.

i've noticed that sometimes it's a bit easier to go fast offline than on, but i'm happy with the simple explanation, which is to do with framerate and lag. online the game can be a bit jerky, while offline it is usually a little smoother, and the jerkiness in the display translates into jerkiness at the wheel, and a slower lap time.

Quote from Shotglass :

im sure he was really helpful when it came to improving that mod
"hte engine on a porsche is in the back guys !"

To elaborate if anyone doesn't know yet: Those guys shouted everywhere "we have real life drivers this and this drive thousands of laps to test this mod, and they say it's very accurate" when in fact, in the Porsche Carrera mod they put engines in the front of 911's.

What a joke. It proves that real life driver inputs are utterly useless, if said driver had insufficient simming experience.

Can't say I've ever noticed any difference in laptimes between MP and SP, and certainly not in the physics. If you have a computer that drops below 30-40 or so FPS, then you might notice a different feel through the wheel, but that still isn't anything to do with the actual physics.

Sometimes, I find, there's a completely different feeling to 'grip' than some other times. Occasionally it's very slippery and doesn't feel good at all, other times it feels hard to lose grip. Same combo, same server, same day. Very strange. Fatigue and excessive intake of Coca-Cola discounted for, however.

Quote from yoyoML :

To elaborate if anyone doesn't know yet: Those guys shouted everywhere "we have real life drivers this and this drive thousands of laps to test this mod, and they say it's very accurate" when in fact, in the Porsche Carrera mod they put engines in the front of 911's.

What a joke. It proves that real life driver inputs are utterly useless, if said driver had insufficient simming experience.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

(Can't laugh any louder)

You're right on. Everyone in this game is a real race driver, just as in Flight Simulator everyone is a 747 pilot!!

Quote from evilgeek :

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

first of all, computers do not measure time in miliseconds. the clock on a computer running at 2 GHz ticks 2 million times for every milisecond of time that goes by.

second, if computer clocks were out by 5%, that would mean your clock would drift by 72 minutes a day, and this guy's online/offline speed difference would be 5-10 seconds per lap, which is clearly not happening. i would say the average computer clock is at worst 100 times more accurate than that, meaning the biggest difference you would ever see would be less than a tenth of a second per lap, but that's assuming that the clock adjustments in multiplayer are actually big enough to cause entire frames to be missed, and that's a HUGE assumption. with 2 million clock cycles per milisecond, and 10 miliseconds per physics update, there are 20 million clock cycles to tick by per physics update, and most computers will be sitting for a long time between physics updates anyway, waiting for the next tick. there is a ton of room for computers with different clocks to add or subtrack ticks and still keep in sync with each other, and never miss a frame.

i've noticed that sometimes it's a bit easier to go fast offline than on, but i'm happy with the simple explanation, which is to do with framerate and lag. online the game can be a bit jerky, while offline it is usually a little smoother, and the jerkiness in the display translates into jerkiness at the wheel, and a slower lap time.

I know that Scawen did a lot of work ensuring that everyone's computer is in sync, as local time deviations make a huge difference. So a second in reality isn't necessarily a second in LFS's sync'd connection (or something like that).

Quote from evilgeek :

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

first of all, computers do not measure time in miliseconds. the clock on a computer running at 2 GHz ticks 2 million times for every milisecond of time that goes by.

second, if computer clocks were out by 5%, that would mean your clock would drift by 72 minutes a day, and this guy's online/offline speed difference would be 5-10 seconds per lap, which is clearly not happening. i would say the average computer clock is at worst 100 times more accurate than that, meaning the biggest difference you would ever see would be less than a tenth of a second per lap, but that's assuming that the clock adjustments in multiplayer are actually big enough to cause entire frames to be missed, and that's a HUGE assumption. with 2 million clock cycles per milisecond, and 10 miliseconds per physics update, there are 20 million clock cycles to tick by per physics update, and most computers will be sitting for a long time between physics updates anyway, waiting for the next tick. there is a ton of room for computers with different clocks to add or subtrack ticks and still keep in sync with each other, and never miss a frame.

i've noticed that sometimes it's a bit easier to go fast offline than on, but i'm happy with the simple explanation, which is to do with framerate and lag. online the game can be a bit jerky, while offline it is usually a little smoother, and the jerkiness in the display translates into jerkiness at the wheel, and a slower lap time.

I agree with much of what you said, but computers have two separate clocks. The date/time clock module is separate from the CPU clock. MB's have different architectures, but for the most part, when you replace the clock battery it affects the date/time clock only.

So, a slow counting CPU doesn't cause the date/time clock to lose time (afaik). I know because I've had many 286 based MBs that never lost time.

Becky's reference to the 5% has to do with the hardware tolerance and that is normal in the industry. Every electronic component has a tolerance (+/- deviation from standard). They can be from a low of +/- 1 1/2 % and as high as +/- 10%. More reason to choose your hardware carefully. Many of the cheaper main boards run in the +/- 10% tolerance while the more expensive use better components running at +/- 1 1/2%.

But if I put together the good of Becky's explanation and yours, then I find reason to believe that my CPU could be causing a difference in my lap times. That was my initial thought.

Thanks for the reply