im writing this because i see soooo many drivers {some not so new i might add} online asking the fastest driver on the server for his set, now there is nothing wrong with this but i think a few things need to be explained here....

because a guy is lapping a few tenths off the WR and leaving the rest of the pack 3 sec behind him every lap doesnt mean if he agree's to send you his set your going to be doing anything like this time, if anything you will go backwards (slower)..

why?? well number 1 one thing i love about LFS its 90% driver, hence that driver is lapping a few tenths off the WR becasue he is ... GOOD, hes put lap after lap after lap in on that track, he know's every bump he knows what each curb will do to the car and how to steady the car, cut a long story short he's experienced....

2nd thing and no where near as important as the one above is his setup , because hes experinced he can handle a car that if you turn in to soon it will break ya neck , apply a just a tad to much throtle it will throw you into the barrier, these sets are "ON THE EDGE" if donwforce is a factor its set to give maximum DF/grip at a given apex speed, this also applies to all the suspesion setup and tires(camber/pressures) your not going to be drivng at this level hence the car will handle like a bucking bronco.

so even if you practice with his set for a week your going to be no where near his times, and you defenitly wont be fighting to take the lead from him, setups DONT make you fast, the quicker you understand this the quicker you will get your tiimes to tumble....

so what DO we do?.....

the same as that insanly fast driver , laps laps and more laps, get yourself a STABLE set i.e 1 from the "easy to drive setup pack" from the this forum and learn just like he had to, this way you will learn the track mutch faster feel more CONFIDENT and soon you will begin to see that aptimum racing line, the one where you can carry the most speed with the car settled and where you can get the most power put down the quickest, but its all about experiance and laps!... the other good point is you wont be getting grilled by the faster guys online because your driving a stable set your not spinning and slidding off the black stuff at every other turn....

some drivers dont want to or carnt be bothered doing there own sets, personly i think its a shame seting up a car is 60% of the fun imo but we are all different.

setups are a personal thing imho what works for one driver wont work for another driver, yes you can LEARN to drive another drivers set but why waste ya time trying to be someone ya not? your instictive driving style may one day be the fastest in lfs, if you can be ya self on the track and set up your own car, 90% of the fastest drivers do there own sets some just tweak other other drivers sets but it all come down to your PERSONAL driving style , not some guy 2000 miles away, once you have the laps behind you on a stable set learn how to set up your own car, so if you have a tire temp problem YOU can deal with it....

the obove is how those drivers doing insane times got there not by downloading WR sets and hoping for the best, if this was true we would all be driving F1 cars for real, hope this helps you newer drivers out a tad ......

remember setups dont make you fast, its YOU! goodluck

agree 90%

Sound advice!

Quote from ans7812 :

agree 90%

100%*

Edited the misspelling for ya

Excellent post Gizz

If theres one thing that will make you faster quicker is to learn the lines of a track, a great way is to watch the WR laps, but there are more than one fast line around a track and online you sometimes need to take other lines in order to overtake well, so learn the lines, after that its all self development as you do more and more laps to gain that detailed mental 3d picture of the track.

studying you own replays should enable you to see where time could be gained also

SD.

Personally, I only ask setups for the gear ratios. After I figured out I cant drive any of the setups that I ask, so I wont even try. Only setup that I can drive is bobs setups with different gear ratios and take it from there. Im still working with my first setup

Quote from SparkyDave :

Excellent post Gizz

If theres one thing that will make you faster quicker is to learn the lines of a track, a great way is to watch the WR laps, but there are more than one fast line around a track and online you sometimes need to take other lines in order to overtake well, so learn the lines, after that its all self development as you do more and more laps to gain that detailed mental 3d picture of the track.

studying you own replays should enable you to see where time could be gained also

SD.

tnx SD and i would agree with that too, thats one of the reasons why i say learn on a stable set.. makes finding the lines that mutch easyer.. top end sets are just to twitchy for this and your skill level at that point, as you said there are many lines into a turn, easch driver will take a "slightly" different one but you have to find em a set will not find those for you!!, the faster the set the harder it is to find the lines, im telling you now a good driver can get +1 /1.5 sec behind a WR with any setup..

pine-fin

Quote :

Personally, I only ask setups for the gear ratios. After I figured out I cant drive any of the setups that I ask, so I wont even try. Only setup that I can drive is bobs setups with different gear ratios and take it from there. Im still working with my first setup

pine!! now is the way to do it if your gona drive other drivers sets, you said you wont drive anyones but BOBS, so that style automaticly suits you!, thats grate, i supose you may tweak a bit of this and that sometimes but on the whole they work for you, your not CHASING other peoples styles of driving every day, you drive 1 setup, plus slowly your learning to setup ya self ... good man

also i must admit to stealing (well i do ask) other drivers gear ratios, IF there running the same DF as me, but i hate that cus ya bet ya life i have to fiddle with diff to get things right then hat spreads out into suspension so i need to brush up on the old gear ratios myself

Bobs setups are not the best for me, but hey, atleast I dont drive off the road Then I _try_ to make the setup better for me. I would not need to 'steal' gear ratios if I understood them 90% of the setup I ask, are the same gear ratios as inferno. (Well not exactly, but If they use 3.41 instead of 3.400 -> They are the same )

Good read and solid advice.

Id say I'm one of the more fortunate drivers within LFS who got invited to drive for two of the top teams in LFS, having people around you who understand how the car needs to react and can create a setup to suit will also make you a faster racer. But one thing I have noticed is the setup isn't always as vital as we all seem to think, I have a lot of setups and the difference between tracks is minimal. My advice to anyone asking for a setup is simply to learn how to do it, it isn't difficult you just need a bit of base knowledge and about 5 laps of testing.

Just get a base set and fiddle around with it (one change at a time) to see how the car reacts to it and learn how setups work, from then on its usually just a case of setting the cambers and tyre pressures and the differential. I very rarely find myself playing with the suspension and If I do its purely for minor personal tweaks to suit my style of driving, once you've got the basics down you'll never need to ask for a set and try to 'fit' to its intended driving style but instead you'll be able to make the set work for your style.

Quote from Rooble :

Good read and solid advice.

Just get a base set and fiddle around with it (one change at a time) to see how the car reacts to it and learn how setups work

Great advice,. Make sure you keep the original set so you can go back and compare again once you've made a string of 8 changes.

Also make sure you know the track properly before making changes to the set. If you're still finding seconds a lap, a set aint gonna make any difference.

Here are some good starting points:
http://gentlefoot.com/sets.html

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Also make sure you know the track properly before making changes to the set.

Excellent advice mate. It's very easy to correct imaginary setup problems because it's actually the way you're driving that is at fault. For example, maybe the reason a brake is locking all the time is not the balance or the strength of the brakes - maybe you just brake too hard, too late.

One thing I've noticed, particularly from STCC, is that setups mostly are a placebo effect, giving me a boost of confidence and faith in the car, allowing my true speed (lol!) to come out.

agreed you've got to know the track and how to drive.

however when you are ready to try setups i'd suggest the following.

1, dont ask every single driver for setups, it makes you look like a kleptomaniac

2, discount any driver, no matter how fast, that goes off every race

3, ignore anyone thats more that say 10 % slower a lap than the race winner

4, ignore anyone thats more than 5% a lap faster than you (if this is everyone don't bother just keep practicing )

5, pick some one who's style seems similar to you, if your not comfortable with oversteer then the guy that drives like gerry marshall or an extra from tokyo drift is probably not using the set up for you

6, finally and most importantly, having selected / stalked your donor. target, victim, ask them nicely when the race has finished !, don't spam your request to them, be patient, theres nothing worse when your having a good race than having a load of increasingly abusive requests posted up. if they give you their setup, remember to say thank you, if they refuse to, accept it, its their setup and its up to them (think of it this way, if they won't give it to you they must be scared that your a faster driver than them )

p.s. before you ask, please make sure you know how to recieve a setup, its bloody anoying when people ask for a set, you send it to them and then they dont know how to save it, everyone looses the odd one but you should at least know how to do it

I'd have to say, learn how to make minor tweaks. You can do a lot to the overall setup just playing with your anti roll bars. (Decrease the front to create oversteer, decrease the rear to create understeer, and vice versa) But don't go too far off the beaten path if you don't know what you're doing, other parts of a setup have to be tuned around its overall balance. So the more modifications you make from the original set the worse off related items in the setup's tune will end up. AKA you'll have a car that finally has the mid-corner balance you want, but it's suddenly completely whacked out in entry and exit.

I didn't start making my own complete sets until about a year ago when I started out with leagues, and in a way I'm a better driver for it. When you're closely scrutinizing how the car's reacting through each corner, you're also scrutinizing your own driving. (Plus it's nice to have yourself so finely tuned that you can notice the difference of just a couple clicks of arb through a corner)

I don't know if it is the servers I frequent (mainly CTRA), but lately I encounter more and more of following behaviour:

PlayerXYZ joins the server.
PlayerXYZ: Setup plz
PlayerXYZ: Send set plz!!!!!11!
Player XYT has left the server

He left, presumably because noone reacted to his mid-race request.
Now basically, there's nothing wrong with asking for setups, but you have to keep in mind a few things.

First of all, setups are overrated for beginner drivers (heck, even for me). If you don't know the car and the track, a setup will most likely only marginally improve your time. More often than not using a setup from a much faster driver will only make you spin out in corners, especially if you drive the car/track combo for the first time.
If you don't want to race with the standard setups that come with the game, just head over to the team inferno homepage and download the setups there. Chances are that everyone else on track you ask for setups use them or slightly variations of them anyway.

Secondly, learn the lines. You will gain most time by simply following a quick driver and watching his break and turn in points. You'll see that this ain't too hard, at least for one or two laps, as he isn't magically zipping away from you. Unless your setup is seriously bonkers, which it shouldn't be if you never tinker with it.
A setup never makes you the fastest guy on track. That is simply due to knowledge and experience. A setup is just there to "fine-tune" your performance.

Thirdly, if you really need someone elses setup, because your times are stagnating within about a half a second of his times, do so when the race is finished. Never expect someone to send a setup while he is busy driving, and don't be offended if he doesn't even reply in chat. Chances are he has deactivated the chat during the race as to not get distracted.
Also, if you get someone elses setup, you might actually be slower than before until you adapt to it.

So conclusively: a setup doesn't magically make you quicker.

EDIT:damn, sorry. Was too early in the morning, didn't see the similar thread. lock, dlete and/or merge please. Was too early to see when posting ^^

Usually, when I start on a new track (or mostly a track I've not driven for ages), I start off with the Race_S setup. If a race is beginning, then I will spectate and wait for the leaders to go racing off, before joining from the pit lane. I will lap and practice my braking points and lines until I am around two or three seconds off the leaders pace. Then after the race I will ask a fast driver for their setup, who normally is someone I've raced with before, so hopefully I get one pretty quick. If no one will give me a set, I shift-F4 and go to Team Inferno. It's easy and no one gets pissed off! Normally.

All very sound advice. I'd add simply:

If your over 1.5 sec from the WR, then setup is never going to help you. It's all technque down to 1.5 over WR. Once you get to that stage, you'll start noticing the difference between one set and another, more importantly, you'll begin to know your own style. Its not easy getting there, but if u practise, and focus on technqique rather than setups, you'll definitely improve. Its fine to ask for a set, if you don't have one for that car/track.

As for techniques:

1. Learn your braking point, and never go past it. New Players always think its faster to brake really late. Thats totally wrong, and only shows how new you are. lol. The fastest way is a fast exit. So, nail your braking point every time and never go past it, even if your dueling for a corner (let the other guy run wide )

2. Braking on your mark ensures you will hit your apex. So; make sure you know the minimum speed at each apex (where u have to brake), make sure you nail that speed. Both that, and braking to your mark will ensure you can nail your apex, which means you get a fast exit.

3. Difference between new n fast drivers, is they get on power usually on the apex or before. Don't try it yet. You can't just start planting it on the apex, and expect it to stay on the road. You have to learn how to, so sneak up. ie, in FOX on Aston Club, if you are low 102's, then its getting on throttle early that will get you faster, not much else (assuming your smooth).

4. Too many people use their wheel, as if it was a crank pumping something up. If you think about it, Turning front wheels = friction, which means it robs you of speed. So use the absolute minimum wheel turn you need, and never pull the wheel (if you run wide, get off the power).

5. Knowing the track, and planning ahead within your mind. I have images in my head of the next corner (when I'm in corner before), and I'm planning where the car will be at any time down the road.

6. Lastly, in a race never watch the guy in front. If he goes off, you will too. You'll also miss your braking markers, and lines. Look past him, to your marks/lines... your peripheral vision will take note of him much better than you can focusing on him. It will pick up every little movement he makes out of norm, so you'll react faster to his mistakes.

There u go.. Have alot of fun.... setups are great, n setting it up yourself is alot of fun too. There's heaps of really good advice in this thread... make use of it.

Venus

Quote from Venus :

6. Lastly, in a race never watch the guy in front. If he goes off, you will too. You'll also miss your braking markers, and lines. Look past him, to your marks/lines... your peripheral vision will take note of him much better than you can focusing on him. It will pick up every little movement he makes out of norm, so you'll react faster to his mistakes.

There u go.. Have alot of fun.... setups are great, n setting it up yourself is alot of fun too. There's heaps of really good advice in this thread... make use of it.
Venus

supper point there venus¬¬!! very easy to concentrate on the guy in front of ya, and as you say you tent to copy what they do, hence they go wide so do you .... again grate advice

Quote from Venus :

1. Learn your braking point, and never go past it. New Players always think its faster to brake really late. Thats totally wrong, and only shows how new you are. lol. The fastest way is a fast exit. So, nail your braking point every time and never go past it, even if your dueling for a corner (let the other guy run wide )

Yes, that is good advice, but just to add that it is actually faster to brake late, it just should not be your main area of focus when trying to improve your lap time. The thing to remember is that you spend 5% of your time on the brake, 20% of your time going around the corners, and 75% of your time hard on the gas. So when looking to maximise your lap times you need to start by focusing on the area which will gain you most time, which is the straight when you are on the gas. You can gain time by braking late, but it's only something you should think about seriously when you are at the point where you are trying to shave off 100ths of a second.

A setup can make quite a difference. Compare the XRT's Hard Track to it's Race_S


Super Tires...and Normal tires.


They do make a difference.


Though that won't stop a more experienced racer from beating a newbie.

But I still agree

Quote from Cr!t!calDrift :

A setup can make quite a difference. Compare the XRT's Hard Track to it's Race_S


Super Tires...and Normal tires.


They do make a difference.


Though that won't stop a more experienced racer from beating a newbie.

But I still agree

That's right. A setup that caters to your driving style can quickly knock seconds off your times, but for that, you have to have a style already, which implicates that you are able to drive clean and reasonably good laps with the normal setups...

Quote from DarkTimes :

Yes, that is good advice, but just to add that it is actually faster to brake late, it just should not be your main area of focus when trying to improve your lap time. The thing to remember is that you spend 5% of your time on the brake, 20% of your time going around the corners, and 75% of your time hard on the gas. So when looking to maximise your lap times you need to start by focusing on the area which will gain you most time, which is the straight when you are on the gas. You can gain time by braking late, but it's only something you should think about seriously when you are at the point where you are trying to shave off 100ths of a second.

Well, my braking point is already at the absolute limit, so going past it, will only make me run wide. I'm assuming you know the limits of your braking, and have already determined the last possible spot you can brake in order to still make the corner.

How do you actually receive a setup from someone? It says "xyz has sent you his setup" or something but I never find it..

Press "N" until the connection list on the bottom right comes up. There should be a green "S" behind the name of the driver who sent you the set. Click on that, give the set a name and use it from your garage.