Hello everybody, and if this has already been discussed, my sincere apologies. Seeing as how Masters of Endurance is such a realistic, and prestigeous league, and seeing as how the level of seriousness is at an all time high. I wanted to get your opinion , in regards to a situation in the qualifying rounds.
Since, most of the procedures in MOE, are implemented from the real life, why not, during qualifications, why not disallow the shift P method, to pitstop for tyres... Why not make it more realistic by forcing drivers to make an actual pitstop to change tyres fuel and repair. That imo, would be a rather interesting feat, rather realistic... because lets be honest, its not fun.. to see cars dissapearing and reapearing, in different parts of the track.. also you prevent the all important "pitted, has left the pits" messages being replaced by "has made a pitstop" thus you add a much better and finer touch to the qualification sessions... and on small tracks you can get some cars off the track freeing it up.... (for other drivers)... Because u have say, 30% of cars, constantly making a pitstop, to change tyres, so it helps.. the crowdedness. Id like to ask that you dont flame... its just a suggestion... something i would like to see in future MOE races... even if this method... removes say 15-20 mins of qualy time... every session.

I agree with you. Secondly it stops this system lag glitch that LFS has when a car joins the race. I'd be pretty peeved if i was on a fast lap and got lag because someone had just left the pits.(and it has happened)

I would support this.

It would keep people from being too reckless and having big crashes in qualifying as well.

Furthermore, it would encourage better preparation, as big setup changes couldn't be made mid-qual.

It is something to think about. However, due to fairness reasons, it can only be done for the next race. So we have a decent amount of time to discuss and decide.

He probably suggested this after yesterdays quali on SO4, and tbh those "pitted, he has left pitts" msg's can be annoying, and also causing lag. So i agree with this suggestion

Well, that would be great! Then I would get a chance to do a decent qualifying without stuttering.

Im glad... you guys support, my idea... it would be a very nice addition to MOE... even if, it removes approx 15-20 mins, from your qual time.

And i know that this cant be implemented this race.... but it would be nice to see it next race.

The message "pitted, he has left pitts" can be avoided by blocking all messages with "shift -", but you can´t remove the lag that it produces... so i support the removal of Shift P.

Tell me how you "remove Shift-P" ????

How will drivers get on and off the track. How will teams join the qualifying at any given time without giving pitlag to other drivers? What if people need to spectate and join later (or if they cannot reset and need to pit in)?

Sure I support such a session being realistic, but LFS has its limitations in many areas, so we have to do with what we have currently. I know people pit in and out because they want a 'perfect' flying lap in just one try... but I think it is too hard to enforce at the moment.

Quote from Tweaker :

Tell me how you "remove Shift-P" ????

How will drivers get on and off the track. How will teams join the qualifying at any given time without giving pitlag to other drivers? What if people need to spectate and join later (or if they cannot reset and need to pit in)?

Sure I support such a session being realistic, but LFS has its limitations in many areas, so we have to do with what we have currently. I know people pit in and out because they want a 'perfect' flying lap in just one try... but I think it is too hard to enforce at the moment.

You dont.... you just make a rule enforcing.... you not to use it... only say, in extreme situations..... As is.. shift P is being abused of.... everyone pitting.. to get that one great lap.... :|

I think the limitations in LFS will prevent this from being a positive addition to MOE. As my teammate, DeadWolfBones, said, it will certainly require everyone to more prepared for qualifying given they can't make changes other than what you get in the F11 & F12 screens.

My issue is that with a track like the upcoming one, South City Long, that is narrow to begin with, you have a high likelihood of someone crashing, and having a difficult time making it back to the pits because of damage.

If you want to talk about realism, then you must consider that if a car is heavily damaged during qualifying, a SC would be deployed while the car is towed back to the pits. Yes, I know that some of you would say that if a car is being towed, their session is likely over anyway, but you can't always say that with certainty. Adding to that, there are teams that can make large changes to their cars by pulling into the garage. Since we have garages behind the stalls, let the cars pull into a garage before hitting Shift-P.

Quote from banshee56 :

If you want to talk about realism, then you must consider that if a car is heavily damaged during qualifying, a SC would be deployed while the car is towed back to the pits. Yes, I know that some of you would say that if a car is being towed, their session is likely over anyway, but you can't always say that with certainty. Adding to that, there are teams that can make large changes to their cars by pulling into the garage. Since we have garages behind the stalls, let the cars pull into a garage before hitting Shift-P.

Technically, it'd be a red flag, not a SC.

I'd say, though, that if a car is so heavily damaged that it can't be brought back to the pits, it should be told to park by the admins. There are plenty of places (especially at SO4) where a damaged car can sit well off the racing line, as it would in real life.

Since it's an endurance league and since, as far as I know, it's impossible to not qualify (worst you can do is start at the back), I don't really see an issue.

nice idea

Quote from N I K I :

He probably suggested this after yesterdays quali on SO4, and tbh those "pitted, he has left pitts" msg's can be annoying, and also causing lag. So i agree with this suggestion

N I K I you caused alot of lag in the qualifying aswell.

I like the idea but I don't think that people pitting in and out is bad, because alot of the time you can make a mistake and be facing an oncoming car, I know it's not real but if you can stop yourself ruining someone elses lap then surely it's a good thing.

Also about the pit lag, I only get it the first time someone joins in a session, I think it's skin and helmet loading but after that I don't get it so long untill a new person enters the server and your. I used shift block in the race and I had no messages showing up whatsoever, no distractions and you know it does reduce the lag you get ingame from people joining and spectating.

It would also give the admins more work aswell, having to monitor or check replays when people are reportedly using shift P instead of making a pitstop, unnessisery IMO, well untill the qualifying sessions are broadcasted.

It could be done in a way that a Shift-P leads to not being allowed to drive more laps. That way you would respect the fact that a car that can't be brought back to the pits on its own power is just not usable anymore.

The difference to the race would be that in races IRL the cars would be brought back on a trailer, in quali they wouldn't.

There's alot of what ifs though, like what if a lag crash occurs and a car is sent flying out of bounds into spectator mode, or the second quali driver for a team is using a differnt setup, or 1 driver has to leave 5 minuits before another one can show up.

Don't mean to be contradictive, but it just seems like al awfull lot of changes for no good whatsoever, IMO the biggests gain would be for the spectators if we had Qualifying coverage.

Quote from Locovich :

The message "pitted, he has left pitts" can be avoided by blocking all messages with "shift -", but you can´t remove the lag that it produces... so i support the removal of Shift P.

Thank you for information

Quote from Bawbag :

There's alot of what ifs though, like what if a lag crash occurs and a car is sent flying out of bounds into spectator mode, or the second quali driver for a team is using a differnt setup, or 1 driver has to leave 5 minuits before another one can show up.

In the case of a lag crash or an accidental going out of bounds (that wouldn't hurt the car IRL) I'd say the team could continue on. It'd only be situations where a shift-p would be the only way out that would mean the end of the session for that team.

And as far as I know there's only one driver allowed per team per qualifying session. Correct?

well, with shift+p banned, how would I make setup changes in the quali (like changing toe, or springs)?

Or when I would want to take a short break? (Well I would shift+s then, and join later, but so could everysone who has just rolled the car too...) The only way would be having an admin checking the whole stuff again after the quali which would mean some more work

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

And as far as I know there's only one driver allowed per team per qualifying session. Correct?

You can have as many drivers as you want doing the qual, as long it's always just one of them on the track / server.

How about you can enter pits only if you come back to pit lane and enter garage, and then use Shift+P. It still will be some shift+p msg's, but much much less, and also less fooling around too, because there is less time for fast laps

Well per qualy session, you can have 2 admins connected... and one can monitor, the pitlane... if they see a driver not in a pit garage, that does shift p, his team will not be allowed to continue the qualification, Reason: its assumend his car is not able to finish the session.

The driver switch, can also be made, using pitstop(and not spectate + rejoin of the other driver) ... also.. if u need to rest... there are always garages, u can park your car there...(in some non ocupied or latter garages)

I really dont see the big issues... your sacrificing a bit of your freedom, (freedom which u dont have in real life) to add to the realism, of the whole league....

I mean as is... with shift p allowed... i think reset should also be allowed...

Quote from Hoellsen :

It could be done in a way that a Shift-P leads to not being allowed to drive more laps. That way you would respect the fact that a car that can't be brought back to the pits on its own power is just not usable anymore.

The difference to the race would be that in races IRL the cars would be brought back on a trailer, in quali they wouldn't.

But if your saying that in qualifying if you crash and cant get back to the pitlane your out, then surely you have to use the same rule for the race too, or do we nick Steam's portal guns in the race?
To me it sounds contradictive if you cant shift+p in qual but you can in the race, obviously theres a more significant reason not to use it in the race, but there needs to be something fair that gives people a reason not to use it if its insisted this needs to be done. A Sin-Bin or something, make teams take a 5min penalty, you note their number and the time left on the clock and if someone exits the pits before their time is up they get a further penalty or something.
It wouldnt be hard to track who's shift+p'd during the session, although it still means nobody can go to garage to change anything once the session has begun.
If someone disconnects, are they ruled out too? afterall if you have a 'shift+p' rule then yanking out the network cable is an easy cheat, but surely anyone losing connection does just as much damage when rejoining. If people arent there when the session begins, are they refused entry, meaning a max of 48 people can be there from start to finish.

All sounds like a lot of work for what really amounts to nothing.

Quote from PaulC2K :

All sounds like a lot of work for what really amounts to nothing.

Exactly. And as I said earlier... until LFS can really update its whole damage/penalty/rules/realism system, then it would be far better for this league of course. I agree that we'd have a much better experience if it was like reallife, but there is only so much we can do.

The races I went to this last weekend, one series was qualifying and someone spun on a corner and the qualifying session had to be cut short to safely clean up the track and move the car out of the sand. There could've been some time left at the end for everyone to come back out and qualify, but time ran out, so not everyone got their fastest laps in. We really cannot simulate such an event in MoE, and we want to at least give everyone a fair chance to get a lap in at the moment. And as LFS progresses with its realism, MoE should get tougher and tougher each season... it is only a matter of time.