Which is an easier for a complete beginner at programming. I want to learn how to make insim applications but I don't know where to start. If someone could aid me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated!

-Regards
Dustin

C# and using the LFSLib library. It has example applications with it. You could also do Java with the java library that's around, Java is just as simple as C#. There is also the Python library that could be played around with.

PHP is a bad choice for InSim apps due to the nature of the fact its a web scripting language and while you can create executables out of it, its not exactly ideal.

If your goal is to make local applications for LFS, PHP makes no sense. It is a web programming language.

Aah, I see. Is there easier languages other then C#?

to be honest dustin ,go with C# ive always used it and i always will i got some good videos that might help? http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstu ... indows/tier1/default.aspx


go through each video and watch it but make sure you click the C# and not VB 1's or else you will be heading in the wrong direction.
as for C#/PHP ,i think C# is best as for a easier language ive been told VB is a step down from C# but i dunno never looked into it myself BUT if you do chose VB theres videos on that link for them aswell

Thanks Sean, I'll take a good look at them later

Bah, I voted too early.. The question I read was "C# or PHP?" and not "C# or PHP, which is easier for InSim?". I've never really used C# so if I could take back my vote I would. That doesn't mean I would vote for C# however, because as stated, never used it so would be an unfair opinion.

Quote from imthebestracerthereis :

Thanks Sean, I'll take a good look at them later

ok good BUT make sure you watch them video's very good because if you dont understand 1 of them you wont understand any after that

It's not really a case of which better or easier, it's about choosing the right tool for the job. If your goal is to write online web applications then PHP is an ideal tool, however if you want to write standalone Windows applications then C# fits the bill nicely.

Both are equally good at interfacing with InSim, although sdether's excellent LFSLib.NET gives .NET languages such a Visual C# and VB.NET the upper hand.

Anyway, if you want to learn C# then mcgas001 has pointed you in the right direction, those video tutorials from Microsoft are very good. Be sure to get the Visual C# Express IDE as well!

Quote from DarkTimes :

It's not really a case of which better or easier, it's about choosing the right tool for the job. If your goal is to write online web applications then PHP is an ideal tool, however if you want to write standalone Windows applications then C# fits the bill nicely.

Both are equally good at interfacing with InSim, although sdether's excellent LFSLib.NET gives .NET languages such a Visual C# and VB.NET the upper hand.

Anyway, if you want to learn C# then mcgas001 has pointed you in the right direction, those video tutorials from Microsoft are very good. Be sure to get the Visual C# Express IDE as well!

yer i have to admit microsoft have done well with the tools they have i would be no where witout the C# ide and them videos.ive just started on the web development track to see what goes on there and once again i was amazed by what you can do. ive made some pretty good stuff with C# and the C# ide and as for LFS Points that you made i can see you have aswell but like you say a language you learn must be based on what you overall goal is from learning it.mine at frst was just to make a basic insim but i cant stop making programs now ..only yesterday i made a race switcher that auto swops the track/cars/laps from about 20 drifferet tracks , 10 different car combinations and 2-8laps on each race , good program ,but yeh this overall topic is on learning so i better stop rabbitin on now :P



also darktimes do you know of anyone thats registered and payed for videos on www.learnvisualstudio.net as i was considering paying up but i wanted to know what the videos are like and maybe what resources there are.Having said that.If there anything like the videos on MSDN i have nothing to worry about spending my money

Quote from Stuff :

Bah, I voted too early.. The question I read was "C# or PHP?" and not "C# or PHP, which is easier for InSim?". I've never really used C# so if I could take back my vote I would. That doesn't mean I would vote for C# however, because as stated, never used it so would be an unfair opinion.

My words exactly. Mouse hand is faster than the eye. Damn unreal tournament :|

If the goal is applications, not web applications, then I really can't think of anything easier than C#. I'm trying to think of easier application platforms, and I really can't think of anything. Java is as easy/hard as C# but UI (Swing or SWT) is painful compared to WinForms in Visual Studio Express. Some may think that VB.NET is easier, but I just don't see that, if you have no previous VB experience. I think IronRuby or Boo might be easier choices on the .NET platform, but neither is mature, and the last thing you want as a novice is running into a problem and having to figure out if you are doing something wrong or hitting a problem with the framework.

Quote from mcgas001 :

also darktimes do you know of anyone thats registered and payed for videos on www.learnvisualstudio.net as i was considering paying up but i wanted to know what the videos are like and maybe what resources there are.Having said that.If there anything like the videos on MSDN i have nothing to worry about spending my money

As I think I mentioned to you before, the only thing I recommend buying is a good book.

The video tutorials are a great start, but for me nothing helps with learning as much as a well written book.

That being said, there is a free book called .NET Zero which is pretty good. Although not great material for beginners, as it presumes some previous programming knowledge.

(Edit: Ignore the stuff about knowing C/C++, if you understand what an object is then you won't have much trouble).

Quote from epp_b :

If your goal is to make local applications for LFS, PHP makes no sense. It is a web programming language.

LTC's insim app is created in PHP.

PHP is a LOT more than just a website programming language

Quote from Krammeh :

LTC's insim app is created in PHP.

PHP is a LOT more than just a website programming language

i agree with that in a way but from my point of view C# is more focused on windows programs so it will mean its a bit easier to learn for a new person

I'm going to have to disagree with you all, PHP is much easer regardless weather or not your using it for application programming or not. C# has way to many pit falls, and is way to complex for a beginner just to pick up. At the end of the day, your going to do the same ammout of foot work to get a InSim application working.

I've got some time on my hands, why don't I just teach you how to do this. One post at a time, one function at a time, one line at a time. It will take about a month tho in total. But if you've got the time, I've got the time.

Quote from Dygear :

C# has way to many pit falls

like for example...?

Quote from BurnOut69 :

like for example...?

Not so much pit falls, as they are annoyances.

I.Really.Hate.Their.Name.Space.Implementation();
White Screens of Death, they are always fun.
It seems to have an identity crisis, not sure if it wants to be C, or VB and it goes more for VB.

I'm sure I could think of more, but It's 6:35 and I've gotten no sleep.

Quote from Dygear :

White Screens of Death, they are always fun.
It seems to have an identity crisis, not sure if it wants to be C, or VB and it goes more for VB.

WSoD in the visual studio designer is not a C# issue it's an IDE issue, you can use sharpdevelop instead, although that won't be a guarantee you won't encounter IDE-related issues - and as for ID crisis, I'd say it wants to be Java, not VB.

And anyhow, the original poster wants to make applications that require a running loop, so any scripting language made for web applications is out of the question.

Quote from Dygear :

I've got some time on my hands, why don't I just teach you how to do this. One post at a time, one function at a time, one line at a time. It will take about a month tho in total. But if you've got the time, I've got the time.

Nice! I'm interested.

Quote from Hollywood :

PHP is a bad choice for InSim apps due to the nature of the fact its a web scripting language

Quote from epp_b :

If your goal is to make local applications for LFS, PHP makes no sense. It is a web programming language.

Quote from xaotik :

any scripting language made for web applications is out of the question.

Disregarding libraries, only looking at language features, running PHP as you would often run other popular scripting languages such as Python or Ruby (using the standalone interpreter), what makes PHP a web-only language?

You know i can see this thead getting out of hand and this is not intended. what programing language is down to personal taste lets leave it at that and give good help to a new programmer

Quote from filur :

Disregarding libraries, only looking at language features, running PHP as you would often run other popular scripting languages such as Python or Ruby (using the standalone interpreter), what makes PHP a web-only language?

Well, the fact that it was initially designed to produce dynamic webpages and the fact that it (recursively) stands for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor" sort of hints to that direction. If it is currently easily used and efficient in making stand-alone applications then I stand corrected.

What I am looking for is something easy to program (for a noob like me :razz and something that is easy to update etc...

Quote from Dygear :

Not so much pit falls, as they are annoyances.

I.Really.Hate.Their.Name.Space.Implementation();
White Screens of Death, they are always fun.
It seems to have an identity crisis, not sure if it wants to be C, or VB and it goes more for VB.

I'm sure I could think of more, but It's 6:35 and I've gotten no sleep.

What about PHP's blatant disregard for consistent naming conventions? Statements which look like functions (array(), isset() etc..)? Almost half-cobbled together object support? The crazy amount of depreciated guff left around because they can never break backwards compatibility?

Oh yeah, my own personal favourite is how NULL, false and zero all evaluate to the same thing! Genius!

I could go on for ages...

Anyway, I don't want to start an argument (or join one in progress), so let me say that I like PHP as a language, but to hold it up as some sort of example as to the flaws in C# is silly.

In my view it still comes down to what tools you need for the task at hand, but I wrote my web site in PHP and LFSPoints in C# for a very good reason.