The tiny amount of lag it'd be between you shifting and the animation starting would be negligable.

For those of us with paddles it'd just start when you hit the gear, so the next available cycle.
For those with a clutch pedal it could be done slightly better, with the animation starting when you engaged the clutch, moving out to rest on the stick when engaged and only actually moving the stick if you did then change gear.

Been suggested before though.

Quote from MAGGOT :

I haven't actually checked specs, but I thought our GTRs were closed to GT3 classed cars? (FIA GT3, SPEED World Challenge GT, etc)

Doesn't matter to me what the GTR class in LFS is suppose to be. I'm nearly done with my h-shifter and will be quite ticked off if I couldn't use it because someone chose the opinion that GTRs should be sequential....

LFS for me is all about fun. H-shifter will just be more fun. In racing IRL it's all about precision and having the edge to win. Sequentials are more precise and give the machines more precision to their driving.

test drive unlimited did this very well...I guess it wasn't a total failure of a game

anyways, when you reach like 300 rpm before the shift point, you guy puts his hand down on the shifter in anticipation...not much unlike you would do when racing. if the rpm drops back down you put your hand back on the wheel, then when you shift...you shift.

Quote :

Most of the GT cars don't even need clutch anymore! At least this applies to Corvette C6R (GT1) and Ferrari F430 (GT2), I guess it's pretty much a standard today.

I'm not aware of a production based racing car that hasn't kept the conventional clutch/gearbox/differential arrangement simply dropping in racing replacement parts. Whilst in theory one could compete in a series with rolling starts and no pitstops clutchless (and I've push started both of the single seaters from the pitlane this way when the clutches have packed up in practice) I think a clutch is normally some how mandated in the rules and running without one would be such a pain it wouldn't be worth it. If you meant they wouldn't run a conventional foot pedal operated clutch in a separate housing then yes in some series you probably could run a clutch inside the gearbox connected to some inferior flappy paddle clutch but one word comes to mind, over-engineering (and it would actually do the job nearly as well as a foot pedal :doh.

Quote from MAGGOT :

I haven't actually checked specs, but I thought our GTRs were closed to GT3 classed cars? (FIA GT3, SPEED World Challenge GT, etc)

Neither had I... http://www.fiagt3.com/cars.php

Seems to be quite a big variety of different cars, even one 4WD (Gallardo), hp ranges from 400 to 500.

JGTC is still closer, it's been Super GT since 2004, I use the old name because I mean older cars too. Matches the LFS GTR quite small engine configurations even better.

Noticed from the link above that Ascari KZ1R, Aston DBRS9, Corvette Z06 and Lamborghini Gallardo are still using manual H-gates in the GT3 class, on two of the cars sequantials are optional though.

Quote from ajp71 :

I'm not aware of a production based racing car that hasn't kept the conventional clutch/gearbox/differential arrangement simply dropping in racing replacement parts. Whilst in theory one could compete in a series with rolling starts and no pitstops clutchless (and I've push started both of the single seaters from the pitlane this way when the clutches have packed up in practice) I think a clutch is normally some how mandated in the rules and running without one would be such a pain it wouldn't be worth it. If you meant they wouldn't run a conventional foot pedal operated clutch in a separate housing then yes in some series you probably could run a clutch inside the gearbox connected to some inferior flappy paddle clutch but one word comes to mind, over-engineering (and it would actually do the job nearly as well as a foot pedal :doh.

I just mean that shifting is clutch-free. I thought that was self-explanatory because the subject was about gearboxes and shifting. Of course the cars still has clutch pedal but it's not needed in shifting.

I specifically asked about this from a pro driver who have mostly driven F430 and C6R in some French GT series. I was kind of surprised because I thought they'd still need to heel & toe while downshifting but only thing they need to do is blip the throttle. Upshifts are of course clutchless with automatic throttle cut.

I thought of a way to REDUCE (not get rid of) some of the lag that happens when you shift. Instead of the hand moving off the shifter only when you approach redline, it could also do it once you get below the powerband, AND also, as soon as you let off the gas, and hit the clutch. Depending on how fast you shift, having the hand come off the wheel when you hit the clutch, instead of wating till you actually shift, could be a huge difference.


So if we combine

1: once we get NEAR the optimal shift point (so theres some flexibility) the hand comes off the wheel and to the shifter, but doesnt shift till we actually shift

2: Once we get below to the powerband, and close to the "optimal downshift point?", the hand comes off wheel blablabla

3: As soon as we clutch, hand comes off wheel, bla bla bla


Combine those three, and it wouldnt be too laggy.


The only way though to do it perfectly, would be when your using an automatic transmission. But then if thats the case, why would your hand come off the wheel, unless your shifting to reverse or neutral, which then the computer wouldnt be able to know ahead of time anyways.

Actually, if you think about it carefully, the driver does move quite realistically and in perfect sync with gear changes, even in LFS. That is because YOU are the driver. Disregarding keyboard and mouse drivers, I still fail to understand why you even want the driver and/or wheel visible. The wheel is already mounted in front of you and the driver's hands are already mounted to your own arms.

If you are talking about the driver and wheel graphics, then you already drive in the cockpit view. Take it one step further from controlling an on-screen graphics with a controller to simulating driving a car and get rid of the driver/wheel graphics. The driver and wheel are already directly attached to you, use them instead.

Why does everyone say animations lag? That some kind of dumbness people spread..

Why does everyone bump year old threads...and then bump them again 3 months later.

and this thread is about getting the gear changing as accurate as possible...only way would be to have lag... and that is why this thread died

Quote from ciph :

Why does everyone say animations lag? That some kind of dumbness people spread..

Explain this then lol

So I am sat at my wheel. I move my had to the shifter. Change gear and while my hand is moving back to the wheel the LFS drivers hand will be moving TO the gearstick to change it.

How does LFS know I am moving my hand to the stick. Think about what you are talking about before you post lol

LFS does not know that you are going to change gear, it just knows when you HAVE changed gear. At that point it can trigger the annimation. This means as my hand move back to the wheel I would see the drivers hand moving TO the wheel.

Do you understand yet?

What could be done is that when you start to dip the clutch the animation to move the hand to the stick could start, this would minimise lag but then the drivers hand would move to the stick when you clutch kick and that would look daft.

Woz, it's simple. We need a few strategically placed cameras around our room, that are looking for little white motion capture balls that are placed on our skin tight suit, then LFS can interpret this data, and animate us scratching our balls or shifting.

We could even have proper leg animation, facial expressions, head turning. It's easy as breaking through the Earths "Liquid Hot Magma" and then we're going for gold.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Woz, it's simple. We need a few strategically placed cameras around our room, that are looking for little white motion capture balls that are placed on our skin tight suit, then LFS can interpret this data, and animate us scratching our balls or shifting.

We could even have proper leg animation, facial expressions, head turning. It's easy as breaking through the Earths "Liquid Hot Magma" and then we're going for gold.

Wow you have solved it. Beats my other idea of setting my PC clock forwards 1 second, the time to move my hand from the wheel to shifter, in a hope that the PC would be on different time to me and hence solve the lag that way. It would be on future time compared to me and so would look like it predicted when I shifted.

Unfortunatly that technique has failed to work, no matter how much I change my PCs time settings

Dustin, you amaze me with your wisdom. I am truely astonished and I have never been astonished by you or amazed by you in all my years of LFS.

Track IR - check
Face IR - check
Hand IR - check
Feet IR - check
All working, I'm ready to race!

hand and feet IR is just unnecessary, just get the G25...

No game is supposed to see if you move your hands. Its also called reaction time and not any weridness of lag. If you press a key windows dont know you are starting to press it it only knows when you pressed it fully <- Same shit.

And this "LAG" will not happen if your reaction is good to change a gear, and real drivers usually let their hands on the Gear controller.

I dont see why it shouldnt be possible... Anyone else who says something different lacks of informations, i worked once as a Game Dev i know what im talking about.

Quote from ciph :

No game is supposed to see if you move your hands. Its also called reaction time and not any weridness of lag. If you press a key windows dont know you are starting to press it it only knows when you pressed it fully <- Same shit.

And this "LAG" will not happen if your reaction is good to change a gear, and real drivers usually let their hands on the Gear controller.

I dont see why it shouldnt be possible... Anyone else who says something different lacks of informations, i worked once as a Game Dev i know what im talking about.

right on! so there is an "animation lag" this is when your brain sends signals to your hands.

i watched a documentary about speed called SPEED hosted by Jeremy Clarkson.

it turns out that everyone has the same reaction or "lag" but athletes are just so well trained that they move their body into position before they need to. they observe tale-tail signs of the mark and is prepared for it, that's why it seems like they have sharp reactions.

to tie it back to the point, we do have an "animation lag" where we reach for the shifter and move it, but we know when to do it so we have our hand on the shifter at the end of a straight, preparing to down shift.

so there is no point in adding an additional animation on top of our actions... if you want to have it be realistic enough that you can learn to race/drive stick on LFS... just get a wheel with an H shifter

Quote from ciph :

No game is supposed to see if you move your hands. Its also called reaction time and not any weridness of lag. If you press a key windows dont know you are starting to press it it only knows when you pressed it fully <- Same shit.

And this "LAG" will not happen if your reaction is good to change a gear, and real drivers usually let their hands on the Gear controller.

I dont see why it shouldnt be possible... Anyone else who says something different lacks of informations, i worked once as a Game Dev i know what im talking about.

You just DO NOT understand what we are talking about do you lol

Let me try this...


This is the "lag" people are talking about. If you fail to understand it now I have NO IDEA how to make you see lol

We mean that by the time the annimation has played the action has already happened. Looks like your life as a game dev and developer taught you nothing

Although, the easy way, would to be when the RPM is within a reasonable point of shifting up, to move the hand to the knob, prepared, although downshifting could be shaky, unless it observes where you are, what's happening and what you're doing.
If you're braking, it should have your hand on the knob ready to downshift, but if you're not, I don't want no animation grabbing my knob when I don't want to.

It could be done, but it'd haffto be more observant than "oh, button pressed, lets do that animation now"

Also, I have a confession, I only partook in this thread so I could legitimately say "grabbing my knob".

Pointless in explaining here.. so i will stop because i see no sense of teaching monkeys using a computer.

Quote from ciph :

Pointless in explaining here.. so i will stop because i see no sense of teaching monkeys using a computer.

You are just trying to back out now you have seen my timeline and realised you were WRONG!

BTW, this monkey is a software developer that started writing software in 1980. I have worked on commercial grade flight sims (military and comercial) and in places like Reuters on security etc. I not only know how to use a computer I also know how to tell it to do stuff down to assembly code level.

So COME ON THEN, explain why there will be no "lag" between my hand and that of the driver. You can get as technical as you need, I WILL UNDERSTAND YOU

EXACTLY HOW WILL YOU SYNC MY HAND MOVEMENTS TO THE VIRTUAL DRIVERS. (Please look at the timeline again first BTW)

This should be so funny

guys... the best solution to this problem is to just have a replica of a car cabin built for gaming...

Woz, you dont get what the definition Game means. Did you ever think about that what you say cant be done without any other Controllers arround you? Why will be there a difference if you simply add an animation or leave it like it is? Its just an animation wich will be called after the Button CallBack event.

And i say congrats about Assembly Level, i did assembly on the old Amiga so dont tell me shit i know already.

You just know how to start your mouth and start talking shit that is totally unnecessary for anyone. Adding an Animation != Slowing down an event (Maybe you understand that?)

Since i wont add now Code snippet to proof that the most here are wrong you can keep believing whatever you wish to, for my part im done. Call me whatever u want but you will and can never change my knowledge because i have way more of that than you.

And dont even start trying to get me proof about ASM, i dont have to proof anything but if you wish me to i will do this outside of this Forum, if you feel like "I Require for everything proof" Pm me and we can talk about lowlevel machine code.

Quote from ciph :

Woz, you dont get what the definition Game means. Did you ever think about that what you say cant be done without any other Controllers arround you? Why will be there a difference if you simply add an animation or leave it like it is? Its just an animation wich will be called after the Button CallBack event.

WE KNOW THAT. sigh

If you are a developer LOOK at the timeline I posted. If you FAIL to understand the timeline you are NOT a developer. It is a state diagram between 2 "threads" that are in different domains.

Quote from ciph :

And i say congrats about Assembly Level, i did assembly on the old Amiga so dont tell me shit i know already.

I didnt tell you anything apart from "this monkey" knows how to use a computer. You appeared to believe you are the ONLY one that understand computers so I just had to slap that down lol

Quote from ciph :

You just know how to start your mouth and start talking shit that is totally unnecessary for anyone. Adding an Animation != Slowing down an event (Maybe you understand that?)

NOBODY has ever said the animation will slow down anything.

Take a deep breath because once again you show a complete LACK of understanding about what we are even talking about.

Quote from ciph :

Since i wont add now Code snippet to proof that the most here are wrong you can keep believing whatever you wish to, for my part im done........

We dont want a code snippet. It would be pointless. We just want to know how you stop the animation playing AFTER I have completed the gear change movements MYSELF.

The trouble is you have gut hung up on the word LAG and assumed it means something OTHER than what we are talking about. Look at the context because the mechanical side of things is simple, a control action happens which triggers an animation.

What we are ACTUALLY talking about is that the animation will NOT play until AFTER the gear has changed.

There will be a DELAY (replacement word for lag in this situation) between ME changing gear using MY H shifter and the virtual driver changing gear. The virtual driver will not change gear until the gear HAS ALREADY BEEN CHANGED.

Is it really that hard to comprehend. It MUST be because EVERYONE else in this thread understands EXACTLY what we are talking about apart from YOU!

Quote from Woz :

WE KNOW THAT. sigh

If you are a developer LOOK at the timeline I posted. If you FAIL to understand the timeline you are NOT a developer. It is a state diagram between 2 "threads" that are in different domains.



I didnt tell you anything apart from "this monkey" knows how to use a computer. You appeared to believe you are the ONLY one that understand computers so I just had to slap that down lol



NOBODY has ever said the animation will slow down anything.

Take a deep breath because once again you show a complete LACK of understanding about what we are even talking about.



We dont want a code snippet. It would be pointless. We just want to know how you stop the animation playing AFTER I have completed the gear change movements MYSELF.

The trouble is you have gut hung up on the word LAG and assumed it means something OTHER than what we are talking about. Look at the context because the mechanical side of things is simple, a control action happens which triggers an animation.

What we are ACTUALLY talking about is that the animation will NOT play until AFTER the gear has changed.

There will be a DELAY (replacement word for lag in this situation) between ME changing gear using MY H shifter and the virtual driver changing gear. The virtual driver will not change gear until the gear HAS ALREADY BEEN CHANGED.

Is it really that hard to comprehend. It MUST be because EVERYONE else in this thread understands EXACTLY what we are talking about apart from YOU!

Lag is a common term used to describe a symptom often encountered in computing and especially networked systems, where results of actions appear much later than expected. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag

Quote from ciph :

Lag is a common term used to describe a symptom often encountered in computing and especially networked systems, where results of actions appear much later than expected.

And that is EXACTLY what we have been talking about. The animation would happen much later than expected.

Or said another way. The animation would lag behind the action.

Care to dig yourself any deeper.

:munching_