no worries chap
no worries chap
8 minutes is fine Niels, quit whining 
You have 3 laps of which to get a lap in.... if its not clean, its not clean.
Do not forget, there is 15 minutes for the prequalification to make sure that the quick guys do have a chance of a clean lap, but for qualifying the 8 minutes is agreat way of making sure that its not a 1/30 procession with a hotlappers paradise
Also don't forget that the qualifiying is the only start and theres no points to it - you get points from finishing races and as there is about an hours worth of racing each night, people have more than n oppotunity to work their way into the points over the evenings events
You have 3 laps of which to get a lap in.... if its not clean, its not clean.
Do not forget, there is 15 minutes for the prequalification to make sure that the quick guys do have a chance of a clean lap, but for qualifying the 8 minutes is agreat way of making sure that its not a 1/30 procession with a hotlappers paradise
Also don't forget that the qualifiying is the only start and theres no points to it - you get points from finishing races and as there is about an hours worth of racing each night, people have more than n oppotunity to work their way into the points over the evenings events
I agree. It only takes one lap to qualify and you have 8 minutes to do that one lap in so that's plenty of time. It also gives us "normal folk" a better chance to get up there if the faster guys mess up so in that respect, think of it as an advantage rather than a problem. Anyhow, it's the same for everyone.
This is a slice from my post in the Cutting thread...
I feel the quali session is too short, but I'm not fussed if it doesn't get extended. A little silly to do it late me thinks.
I feel the quali session is too short, but I'm not fussed if it doesn't get extended. A little silly to do it late me thinks.
And this is my answer - don't come to a race circuit unprepared and miss a corner apex so bad that you would get speced.......
Thr buck stops basically at people preparing, or not preparing, people who think that they can do 10 laps somewhere, think they know it and can drive reliably around it lap in lap out are kidding themselves..... do your home work, pass the exam.....
Not all people are unprepared though.
I was a little tonight but not once did I hit the cones.
It doesnt take lack of preparation to be over the limit and slightly run wide. That was my argument. Not all drivers in the field are willing to "cheat" to win. I would like to think that 9/10 cone hits are from pushing to hard, pressure from behind, many reasons.
If I am wrong, and alot of people on the grid will purposly try to cut the curbs, then...Nuurr!!
I was a little tonight but not once did I hit the cones.
It doesnt take lack of preparation to be over the limit and slightly run wide. That was my argument. Not all drivers in the field are willing to "cheat" to win. I would like to think that 9/10 cone hits are from pushing to hard, pressure from behind, many reasons.
If I am wrong, and alot of people on the grid will purposly try to cut the curbs, then...Nuurr!!
Sorry to say this but, in some the race events anyhow, it was evident to me that some drivers have not done their homework. I saw some very strange lines and spins at unchallenging corners and strange braking points where braking may not even have been needed at all. The reverse grid race really brought this home where the pace was so diverse, which just shouldn't be, given that these little cars offer up very closely matched times. I didn't see so many of the regulars tonight so I'd imagine that was partly the reason -unfamiliarity. Good enough reason for pre-qualy I say.
Looney - derstrictBUTZ was standing eagle eyed at that corner for most of the night. I asked him how people had behaved during the races and he was very positive about it reporting very few incidents. Rest assured, that base is covered by the big ZWR policeman
Looney - derstrictBUTZ was standing eagle eyed at that corner for most of the night. I asked him how people had behaved during the races and he was very positive about it reporting very few incidents. Rest assured, that base is covered by the big ZWR policeman
pull over and hand me your licenses!
:-) Yes, I have been watching all of the races (which was very exhausting). The flicker from changing view/car every 30th of a second gave me a headache!
All in all people were very fair, the cone at T1 was hit more often, but most people killed their cars by eating wall afterwards :-). Last corner was pretty clean for everyone.
And it's true, I've been to better races before. Quali sucked, so did race 2 and 3 with only a handful of people finishing.
One can very clearly see which driver has been on the track at least once or has trained a lot! This is exactly why Dru has put a lot of weight on "has attended test sessions" in the drivers/prequalifiers list.
Two things to say:
One driver A clipped the cones of the last turn every time in the beginning, he drove so exact, it was very nice to see... too bad I had to tell him to stop it! :-)
One driver B used every opportunity to cut, only when someone in front kicked away the cones first though! T1, one slammed into the tYre and cone, driver B approached the corner, saw no tyre, then cut baaaadly! I still don't know if I should see it as ingenuity or quick reaction or fine it.
greetz
der butz
:-) Yes, I have been watching all of the races (which was very exhausting). The flicker from changing view/car every 30th of a second gave me a headache!
All in all people were very fair, the cone at T1 was hit more often, but most people killed their cars by eating wall afterwards :-). Last corner was pretty clean for everyone.
And it's true, I've been to better races before. Quali sucked, so did race 2 and 3 with only a handful of people finishing.
One can very clearly see which driver has been on the track at least once or has trained a lot! This is exactly why Dru has put a lot of weight on "has attended test sessions" in the drivers/prequalifiers list.
Two things to say:
One driver A clipped the cones of the last turn every time in the beginning, he drove so exact, it was very nice to see... too bad I had to tell him to stop it! :-)
One driver B used every opportunity to cut, only when someone in front kicked away the cones first though! T1, one slammed into the tYre and cone, driver B approached the corner, saw no tyre, then cut baaaadly! I still don't know if I should see it as ingenuity or quick reaction or fine it.
greetz
der butz
Thats pretty much what ive been saying after every test practice to be honest. There are people who dont care for rules or at least fair play if its a mistake. If you gain from knowingly cutting then its cheating, no more no less. Usually you can tell very easily whats a mistake, and whats intentional, most people who intentionally try to drive clean will use the brakes if they think they might cut, but plenty just plough through without a care in the world.
Whether something (an object) is there to stop you or not, the general rule of racing is very simple: '2 wheels on the track at all times', its not 'if theres nothing in the way f*** it drive through'. If you've hit something, or by virtue of someone else hitting it before you you have all 4 wheels off the tarmac/curbing it means 1 thing, you've cut the track, and if you've gained an advantage from it and made no effort to prevent it or give up that advantage then its cheating, theres no grey area, its black and white, especially if its done and a true advantage is taken from it ie best qual time, race places gained etc.
Cant say i enjoyed last nights racing, the last 2 meetings were fine, but with a few people missing it just felt flat and boring where i couldnt be bothered, which isnt usually me, hopefully with the proper line-up next week it'll be better, but i cant help but think half the people just turn up and drive, hopefully those people will be removed in the pre-event qualifying before each round meaning if you havent practiced then you wont be racing this week because ~30 people fighting for the last 10 spaces into the round means competition for places, which means people have to be on their game.
'No Reset' doesnt help much either, i blame Patch X for removing the traditional option of just putting the car back on its wheels, but the problem is half (or more!) of the grid get wrecked and they have no choice but to spectate/telepit making duller races.
Also, as a rule of thumb, anyone setting a new PB in the server on a race day that is more than 120% of the record should be kicked out without fail. Its nothing short of an insult if people are just turning up and doing their learning there and then. Again, hopefully when the season starts everyone will actually make an effort to learn the track before turning up for the round, its not fair on everyone else to put up with people that cant be arsed practicing, especially those who think qualifying is a race and they must block anyone attempting to overtake them.
Whether something (an object) is there to stop you or not, the general rule of racing is very simple: '2 wheels on the track at all times', its not 'if theres nothing in the way f*** it drive through'. If you've hit something, or by virtue of someone else hitting it before you you have all 4 wheels off the tarmac/curbing it means 1 thing, you've cut the track, and if you've gained an advantage from it and made no effort to prevent it or give up that advantage then its cheating, theres no grey area, its black and white, especially if its done and a true advantage is taken from it ie best qual time, race places gained etc.
Cant say i enjoyed last nights racing, the last 2 meetings were fine, but with a few people missing it just felt flat and boring where i couldnt be bothered, which isnt usually me, hopefully with the proper line-up next week it'll be better, but i cant help but think half the people just turn up and drive, hopefully those people will be removed in the pre-event qualifying before each round meaning if you havent practiced then you wont be racing this week because ~30 people fighting for the last 10 spaces into the round means competition for places, which means people have to be on their game.
'No Reset' doesnt help much either, i blame Patch X for removing the traditional option of just putting the car back on its wheels, but the problem is half (or more!) of the grid get wrecked and they have no choice but to spectate/telepit making duller races.
Also, as a rule of thumb, anyone setting a new PB in the server on a race day that is more than 120% of the record should be kicked out without fail. Its nothing short of an insult if people are just turning up and doing their learning there and then. Again, hopefully when the season starts everyone will actually make an effort to learn the track before turning up for the round, its not fair on everyone else to put up with people that cant be arsed practicing, especially those who think qualifying is a race and they must block anyone attempting to overtake them.
OKe Dru if you think 8 minutes is fine. We just have to wait and see what happens. I hope you are right but i have mine concerns.
Anyway I had a good racing night. I finished the first race coming from 23th spot due too a bad quali. But i managed to get back at the finish at 9th place.
Second race, ernnn carnage again. Ahh well thats racing. Isite out and watched.
Third race. Started somewhere and ended up at spot 3, and I think I saw Tony in my rear view mirror for a couple off laps. I took over 2 guys for the last chicane at the finish but after that I took T1 wrong and rocketered. Aye again a 100000 dollar HR UFR down the drain.
But that was mine own fault.Anyway good racing last night cant wait to get started.
Paul, your words in Dru's ear :-)
Indeed it's not only stupid, it is unfair to not practice before a race. Prequali will only allow the 12 best to join the grid, and out of 45 signups there are about 35 good drivers.
Reset allowed would keep field size, I don't think it'll make races better though since allowed reset COULD mean more reckless driving.
greetz
der butz
Indeed it's not only stupid, it is unfair to not practice before a race. Prequali will only allow the 12 best to join the grid, and out of 45 signups there are about 35 good drivers.
Reset allowed would keep field size, I don't think it'll make races better though since allowed reset COULD mean more reckless driving.
greetz
der butz
i had a pretty good qualy/race for my first league race (test).
- Qualy gave me some place between 10/20 wich wasn't bad for me, I ended 9th
- Second ended 5th
- Third race was a carnage so i specced
- Qualy gave me some place between 10/20 wich wasn't bad for me, I ended 9th
- Second ended 5th
- Third race was a carnage so i specced
really sorry ic ouldnt make it i felt like crap and didnt want to be a danger on track
Niels:
About the 8min qual time, not sure if it was yourself that complained about it right at the end of the qual session when it had finished, but to be honest i had to laugh at that.
The exact same comments were said in the BOTT servers about too many people making it too hard to get a decent lap in, but its not the number of people thats the problem, its the stupidity of people!
Too many people expect everyone else to just move out of view and the free track to just open up for them, too few people actually consider waiting until everyone piles out of the pitlane in a hurry and start following each other round and tripping over themselves, it only takes one of the cars ahead to make a mistake and it can easily spoil your lap. So dont follow everyone out, wait till you see some space on the track and occupy the empty areas!
I waited half a lap then left the pitlane, my first flying lap was just warming the tyres up as id got the first sector wrong so i just made sure the 2nd lap started nicely, unfortunately i disconnected midway round, by the time i got back into the server there was 2min 30 on the clock and my best time was ~1m28, for my outlap i just got the tyres warmed up and started looking for openings in the traffic behind me and waited until i had some room, i ended up taking pole based on 1 so-so flying lap, fortunately for me it seems nobody hooked it up decent lap.
But the point is, dont expect things to happen for you, make them happen. Its your qualifying session, your responsible for whats around you and if you go back and look at a qual replay you'll see about 1/4rd of the track is completely empty at any given time, other areas still have nice distraction free areas where you can get a clean run with a much slimer likelyhood of someone ruining your lap.
Butz:
Not sure i agree with the thought that reset might mean people dont make any effort, i think everyone goes into a move with the same thought with it or without enabled.
Whatever position your challenging for, you know if you make contact with someone or hit an object and end up rolling it your going to lose a load of places.
Before X came along you could at least reset the car with a ton of damage and be forced to pit in to repair it, now the only option is retire or be given a brand spanking new car.
Im not saying its a good idea to allow reset, but thats the reason for such low finishers, lots of accidents and people cant continue so it kinda makes it boring for those left on their own to race, whether its the leader or last place.
About the 8min qual time, not sure if it was yourself that complained about it right at the end of the qual session when it had finished, but to be honest i had to laugh at that.
The exact same comments were said in the BOTT servers about too many people making it too hard to get a decent lap in, but its not the number of people thats the problem, its the stupidity of people!
Too many people expect everyone else to just move out of view and the free track to just open up for them, too few people actually consider waiting until everyone piles out of the pitlane in a hurry and start following each other round and tripping over themselves, it only takes one of the cars ahead to make a mistake and it can easily spoil your lap. So dont follow everyone out, wait till you see some space on the track and occupy the empty areas!
I waited half a lap then left the pitlane, my first flying lap was just warming the tyres up as id got the first sector wrong so i just made sure the 2nd lap started nicely, unfortunately i disconnected midway round, by the time i got back into the server there was 2min 30 on the clock and my best time was ~1m28, for my outlap i just got the tyres warmed up and started looking for openings in the traffic behind me and waited until i had some room, i ended up taking pole based on 1 so-so flying lap, fortunately for me it seems nobody hooked it up decent lap.
But the point is, dont expect things to happen for you, make them happen. Its your qualifying session, your responsible for whats around you and if you go back and look at a qual replay you'll see about 1/4rd of the track is completely empty at any given time, other areas still have nice distraction free areas where you can get a clean run with a much slimer likelyhood of someone ruining your lap.
Butz:
Not sure i agree with the thought that reset might mean people dont make any effort, i think everyone goes into a move with the same thought with it or without enabled.
Whatever position your challenging for, you know if you make contact with someone or hit an object and end up rolling it your going to lose a load of places.
Before X came along you could at least reset the car with a ton of damage and be forced to pit in to repair it, now the only option is retire or be given a brand spanking new car.
Im not saying its a good idea to allow reset, but thats the reason for such low finishers, lots of accidents and people cant continue so it kinda makes it boring for those left on their own to race, whether its the leader or last place.
Paul :
I second that. I always wait for a good spot between the pack to get a decent lape in. At least what is a decent lape for me. But that isnt what I meant. I meant due to traffic on such a track its hard to find the spot and trying to make less errors as possible. We all know what it is. You always seems to f.ck up something during a lape.
But sure youre right. Dru has a fair comment aswell. All I am saying on this particular track, you will see lots off car rolling and its gonna be hard to get a decent lape in within the 8 min time limit.
Let me be upfront, I dont mind it at al. I just noticed it last night. And yeah i made that comment. And i got a warning for it aswell although qualify was ended.
I second that. I always wait for a good spot between the pack to get a decent lape in. At least what is a decent lape for me. But that isnt what I meant. I meant due to traffic on such a track its hard to find the spot and trying to make less errors as possible. We all know what it is. You always seems to f.ck up something during a lape.
But sure youre right. Dru has a fair comment aswell. All I am saying on this particular track, you will see lots off car rolling and its gonna be hard to get a decent lape in within the 8 min time limit.
Let me be upfront, I dont mind it at al. I just noticed it last night. And yeah i made that comment. And i got a warning for it aswell although qualify was ended.
The 2 Fern Bay rounds (Green rev and club) will be survival rounds....
people interested in glory will fail at this places - people interested in going for the championship will be looking at the bigger picture.
people interested in glory will fail at this places - people interested in going for the championship will be looking at the bigger picture.
To be honest, i questioned the qual length when it was first set, most rounds are 8 minutes, the South City Long track (~1m50sec laps IIRC) is 7min, meaning 1 outlap and 4 flying laps at the most.
Making the session 10-15min long wouldnt have taken much from everyones day, its only an extra 7min afterall, however Dru said it was to try and keep the qualifying sessions fairly mixed, i guess it adds in the extra tension of knowing you only have a couple of laps with which to put in a respectable time. Do you go all out for the fastest lap you can manage or do you play it safe with solid times but nothing that'll set the world alight.
Of course the trouble with adding extra pressure is that people fold under it, people insist on making rash decisions that end up costing innocent by-standers, and i guess thats the angle you were coming from.
I still dont see the problem with rolling, if its going to be a problem in an 8min qual session then its definately going to be a problem in a 15min race. I know i can go through T1 flat out and completely clean and come out the other side at around 94mph, I also know i can go through T1 flat out clip the curb just as i normally do but hit it slightly wrong and end up heading into the barrier and soon onto my roof. Its a case of playing the numbers, and thats pretty much what the session requires, play it safe and lift for the corner or go for broke and nail it through. Just because the idea of qualifying is to put in the fastest lap you can do, it doesnt mean you have to risk everything trying to get it, you push without extending yourself too far.
Making the session 10-15min long wouldnt have taken much from everyones day, its only an extra 7min afterall, however Dru said it was to try and keep the qualifying sessions fairly mixed, i guess it adds in the extra tension of knowing you only have a couple of laps with which to put in a respectable time. Do you go all out for the fastest lap you can manage or do you play it safe with solid times but nothing that'll set the world alight.
Of course the trouble with adding extra pressure is that people fold under it, people insist on making rash decisions that end up costing innocent by-standers, and i guess thats the angle you were coming from.
I still dont see the problem with rolling, if its going to be a problem in an 8min qual session then its definately going to be a problem in a 15min race. I know i can go through T1 flat out and completely clean and come out the other side at around 94mph, I also know i can go through T1 flat out clip the curb just as i normally do but hit it slightly wrong and end up heading into the barrier and soon onto my roof. Its a case of playing the numbers, and thats pretty much what the session requires, play it safe and lift for the corner or go for broke and nail it through. Just because the idea of qualifying is to put in the fastest lap you can do, it doesnt mean you have to risk everything trying to get it, you push without extending yourself too far.
True.
The extra 7 min dont add that much but it gives you that extra time that you can do a hotlape. I normally have to warm and during quali my fastest lape wille be lape 4 or 5. So i better get used to the 8 min quali.
On the other hand I like the pressure with the 8 min quali. It gives you that rush trying to get a good clean lape in. Rolling isnt mine concern as long they dont get rocketerd. But thats the poor phycics of LFS. Still wonder why after all these patches there hasnt been done anything about that. But thats a different story.
Anyway I think it will be good fun driving in a league with such talented racers. It makes you wanna go that extra mile well at least that does it too me.
The extra 7 min dont add that much but it gives you that extra time that you can do a hotlape. I normally have to warm and during quali my fastest lape wille be lape 4 or 5. So i better get used to the 8 min quali.
On the other hand I like the pressure with the 8 min quali. It gives you that rush trying to get a good clean lape in. Rolling isnt mine concern as long they dont get rocketerd. But thats the poor phycics of LFS. Still wonder why after all these patches there hasnt been done anything about that. But thats a different story.
Anyway I think it will be good fun driving in a league with such talented racers. It makes you wanna go that extra mile well at least that does it too me.
The old reset way would probably have been the better option as a compromise but since it's not available anymore, I prefer the no reset. Just don't crash is all you can do.
Anyhow, this first track is the worst for "high roof abrasion" so once that's done hopefully there won't be so many DNFs and some may even learn the dire consequences of a mistake. I know it's not always fair ie. when someone else causes the accident, but that's motor racing and I'd prefer if this aspect were kept as realistic as possible, within the confines of the sim.
Anyhow, I hope and think that everyone will be just that little bit more reserved during the race so hopefully that will pay off.
I dont think there would be any complaints from people who crash and end up having to retire, thats racing. Its the times when your the innocent bystander to other peoples mistakes which are frustrating. I was taken out by someone who'd completely screwed up T1 (they arent registered, and probably havent practiced, i know myself and rooble were commenting over TS at just how pathetic their driving was in the 2nd race) and their car hit the advert signs on the outside of T1, hit the tyres in the middle and then had their car parked across the middle of the track when 3 cars were coming through.
Its other peoples incidents and being forced out of the race because of it that makes it frustrating that you cant just reset and go about your race. I'd already got caught up in the pile-up at the back of the grid on the first lap, would have got through fine if someone ahead hadnt wallopped a roofed car and set themselves up for a collision course with my car. Its not realistic to be able to magicly land back on your wheels, but its certainly frustrating when you do nothing wrong but other peoples mistakes cost you, especially when theres a lot of people making them.
Its other peoples incidents and being forced out of the race because of it that makes it frustrating that you cant just reset and go about your race. I'd already got caught up in the pile-up at the back of the grid on the first lap, would have got through fine if someone ahead hadnt wallopped a roofed car and set themselves up for a collision course with my car. Its not realistic to be able to magicly land back on your wheels, but its certainly frustrating when you do nothing wrong but other peoples mistakes cost you, especially when theres a lot of people making them.
Just have to say again that hopefully the quali and especially the pre-quali will deal with this to a large degree.
TBH - in hindsight we shouldn't have had any non-registered at all there on Thursday night. It was a mistake and we learn and move on. I'm not saying that they were all bad though. I'm not passing any judgement or making a big deal about it but they just shouldn't have been there because their addition was unproductive.
TBH - in hindsight we shouldn't have had any non-registered at all there on Thursday night. It was a mistake and we learn and move on. I'm not saying that they were all bad though. I'm not passing any judgement or making a big deal about it but they just shouldn't have been there because their addition was unproductive.
For those of you who are interested we have clubnight every sunday night at the HR race server. I will set it to UFR baby R`s this night for some good fun and practise. We have 32 spots. So there plenty of room.
Youre all free to come in.
Location HR race server. Time 20.00 UK time.
Hope to see a lot of you.
- edit - I spoke to Celtic. He said your ZWR restriction program was ready to download. Can someone twell me where. I would love to have the restrisction on our server.
Youre all free to come in.
Location HR race server. Time 20.00 UK time.
Hope to see a lot of you.
- edit - I spoke to Celtic. He said your ZWR restriction program was ready to download. Can someone twell me where. I would love to have the restrisction on our server.
UF 1300 testing
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