Why is there a huge argument when ever the subject is brought up(very ironic as this will undoubtfully make arguments) but seriously, racing is racing.

I used to be a what i would call ''pro circuit'' supporter before playing LFS, but after a while trying oval racing, i noticed the battles tend to be alot more closer and the presure is way higher. Now im not saying oval is better but im saying atleast be in the situation where you have driven both ALOT to critise..

I just started watching NASCAR lately(well actually one race) and i found it intresting needless to say, the track was like peak hour trafic and you could feel the pressure from the drivers point of view, sure you might say there is not much driving skill involved but overtaking and finding those few tenths out of your car does to me, and you will find that in NASCAR or any oval sport for the matter, it doesn't only come from F1 and DTM and the likes..

Hmmm this could get quite ugly, lets hope not.

I think it all comes down to a cultural thing. The first purpose built oval's were actually built in the UK which quickly spread to Europe, Germany and Italy most notably, but for some reason they never really caught on. It wasn't until the marketing men of the US saw a golden opportunity to make a quick buck that it really took off. If you can build a grandstand and every single seat is able to see every inch of the track then that should appeal to the paying public and subsequently the advertisers too. But also it reflects the direction the various nations car manufacturers took with their designs. In Europe especially after the war due to fuel shortages etc our cars tended to be small engined with light bodies built with stiff suspension to save costs and to be able to drive along small country roads. Whereas in the US there were less shortage's of fuel and materials and with large open straight roads handling characteristics were in less demand, all of which reflected in the cars been built for the track. Remember almost all race cars were born of production road cars, even F1 !

There's many many reasons for the lack of interest in oval racing in Europe. Many entrepreneurs have tried to bring it back here, but as yet non have succeeded, with most championships falling flat on their face. In this day and age the only way to make it popular here (Europe) is to start at ground level again and build a cult following, and hope that that grows into a more popular form of motorsport, but i cant really see it ever becoming more popular than road/circuit racing. Can you ever see the IOM building an oval for the TT races ?

As i said in the beginning, it tends to be a cultural thing, and it's one of those things when you see something all the time (on TV for example) it quickly becomes the norm, and anything thats a bit different is quickly regarded as being wrong.

I'll admit i've watched quite a lot of oval racing in my time, and at times it can be quite exciting, but on the whole it's not really my thing. Just like baseball, basketball, American Football, and even Aussie Rules, they're nothing more than a novelty sport, half the time i'm not entirely sure whats going on, so it can be quite frustrating to watch and therefore becomes boring. It's a bit like the Americans not taking to football/soccer and even rugby, it's just one of those things, no use crying over it .

What Mazz said is true. There's really not much to add. I started a thread with the similar topic when I first reappeared in the LFS community. (Dont know if you really remember it was called "the big schism")

Mainly, it's just not something Europeans (or anyone else besides the American continents for that matter) find appealing. It's just like why is drifting mainly a Japanese sport.

Also, (and this mainly does not pertain to the people within the community) people view ovals as something primitive and simple. But they are just judging the racing based purely on the track itself. What they do not realize is that it's not the oval itself that makes oval racing interesting, but it's the competition you normally get on ovals (the rush hour traffic) that makes it exciting and at times very challenging to drive.

Let me break it down this way (and keep in mind this is a generalization not a universal law):
Circuits ---> hot lap style racing, where there's a low amount of cars on the track, and each cars are focused on driving the track and hitting all the marks (and occasionally overtaking when necessary). The excitement is in the track itself and not always the racing. (2004 season of F1 YEEESH!!!)
Ovals ---> competition style racing, where the excitement is in the relationship between you and the other cars. NOT IN THE TRACK ITSELF. If I had to drive 100 laps around a oval with just me I'd be bored too.

Another reason might be is that the cars that normally run on ovals are very primitive compared to circuit series. (Ex, indy v. F1)

I really dont understand why the degree of technology determines the excitement. Sure, high tech cars makes the cars itself a little more interesting, but it really doesn't determine the excitement of a particular series. In fact, sometimes technology needs to be suppressed in order to provide more competition (which is what stock cars are all about)

Hi. Just thought I pop in here and giggle. But I won't tell you why I'm giggling, and I won't be coming back (even if you reply). Have... <yawns>... fun!

Quote from tristancliffe :

Hi. Just thought I pop in here and giggle. But I won't tell you why I'm giggling, and I won't be coming back (even if you reply). Have... <yawns>... fun!

Arrrgh :rolleyes: sometimes you're just no fun at all

Go on, join in

quite honestly, (and of course there will be exceptions) I really dont think anyone in the LFS community has a really big problem with ovals.

Some just dislike it and express their discontent with it in a very aggressive manner.

I have yet to see someone in the LFS community who wholeheartedly hate ovals to the bone and will persistently attack anyone who finds it entertaining.

both are fun w/ the right car and competitive drivers. I think some people were annoyed with stats being sorta screwed up by ovalracers .

I think oval races are like cycling, sailing, etc. The kind of sport wich you enjoy a lot doing it, but watching others practising it, is really boring.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Hi. Just thought I pop in here and giggle. But I won't tell you why I'm giggling, and I won't be coming back (even if you reply). Have... <yawns>... fun!

Quote from tristancliffe :

Take it personally then. Driving on the oval takes no skill and is for retards. Without exception.

Matter of taste dude and yet your reply shows that you still dont get it.

Theres no reason for me to argue on that topic, either you like it or you dont, simple as that. And prime examples like tristan (thank god youre here:shrug show where it ends (or could if you do not understand that there is no reason to insult people for what they are doing (lfs related)) I dont have a problem with someone that dislikes the oval even tho he never really tried it but i have a problem when the same persons join such discussions (quite frequently in tristans case) and make stupid comments just because of their own lack of knowledge.

lol i wonder what happened to tristan to make him hate ovals so much. Show us on the doll where the oval touched you.

Gab

I don't find oval-racing that entertaining to do, but then I've never raced ovals in a proper NASCAR sim. All my oval experience has pretty much been in LFS in the early, pre-BF1 days of S2. Then, every second server was FO8s at KY and it was easy to find a server with a large pack to race with. Unfortunately only about 3% of the people racing ovals at that time had any clue of how to actually do it and races were frequently ruined by idiots/newbs/ignorami. Even after a great deal of good racing at the oval the novelty soon wore off for me and I was back on circuits really quickly.

I can't say objectively that circuits are better than ovals but, for me, it's the truth. I guess it just comes down to whatever you're used to. In Australia, we have much more in common with America when it comes to the most popular kinds of car - large V6s or V8s, comfy, soft, easy as crap to drive in a straight line, perfect for our endless expanses of freeway. However, ovals never caught on here and we've always forced our big family four-doors or muscle cars to race around big road circuits, purpose-built short tracks or tight city circuits. Someone did try and start an Aussie stock car oval series in the 1980s called AUSCAR but it died a quick death. We don't have enough ovals or enough interest to build more. This nation's petrolheads have all grown up watching huge muscle cars being forced around tight bastards of tracks like Bathurst and Oran Park and, more recently (last decade or so), tight city circuits like Adelaide, Melbourne & Surfers. There's no question of space unlike in the UK though - you could throw a dart at a map of Australia and find room for a new Daytona Speedway but, simply, noone wants one! I guess we like a nice combo of big, fast, Yank-style muscle and lots of little European corners to haul them around

edit: I should just add this for perspective's sake: although Australia and the US are sort of the same size the US has 300 million people, reasonably well-spread out while we have 20 million people concentrated at a few points around the coast with basically noone living in the middle. We just don't have the numbers or the population density to fill big tarmac-oval grandstands all over the country. Although, having said that, there are many dirt-oval speedways in our country areas and they've always been very popular (my first taste of motor racing was watching sprint cars, motorcycles, demolition derbys etc. at a dirt speedway as a little kid - once I'd sat in the front row for a few laps and got splattered with mud I was hooked. The crashes always kept me coming back too :up.

Quote from Gabkicks :

Show us on the doll where the oval touched you.

ROFL!

Quote from Gabkicks :

lol i wonder what happened to tristan to make him hate ovals so much. Show us on the doll where the oval touched you.

Hilarious! If thats not signature worthy then I don't know what is!

as said above really there so different so its down to PP

the thing that turn me of ovals (in LFS) really had nothing to do with the track, now before i say this i dont want a linch mob after me ...

i went oval racing a hand full of time's and the drivers on there were so........... aragent?? now i only did it a few time's but thats just what i found, im not saying (by any stretch of the imagination) that all the merry go round drivers act like this so be gentle ...

other than that it just doesnt float my boat, i dont HATE ovals or the drivers you guys payed for your licence just like me...

Quote from Gizz :

as said above really there so different so its down to PP

the thing that turn me of ovals (in LFS) really had nothing to do with the track, now before i say this i dont want a linch mob after me ...

i went oval racing a hand full of time's and the drivers on there were so........... aragent?? now i only did it a few time's but thats just what i found, im not saying (by any stretch of the imagination) that all the merry go round drivers act like this so be gentle ...

other than that it just doesnt float my boat, i dont HATE ovals or the drivers you guys payed for your licence just like me...

There's a lot of truth in this post. Also the only popular oval server (the FM server) is very vote ban happy. Top oval racers in LFS are sometimes a pain to deal with, especially when they start boasting that they can easily beat the WR and little do they know that the rest of us dont care and just want some good competition. Which is why i usually race in CTRA and not as much in FM anymore.

Besides, Kyoto oval is immensely boring (and poorly designed). If we had Daytona, Talladega, Bristol, Pocono and Martinsville (or it's equivalent) then ovals would be the only thing i'd be racing in LFS. But unless LFS adds tracks like those, oval racing is best left in rFactor and NASCAR 2003

Whel i say it both has good sides

Oval: harcore speed pedal to the metall!!!

pro circuits: nice and technical often braking points when to go on throttle weight shifting is crucial so there is alot more to it that i also like

ovals arent always highspeed. on some tighter tracks that actually require you to intentionally slow down, Stock cars from the nascar series struggle to stay above 100mph. there's weight shifting and balancing of throttle and steering involved in oval racing as well.

Quote from lizardfolk :

There's a lot of truth in this post. Also the only popular oval server (the FM server) is very vote ban happy. Top oval racers in LFS are sometimes a pain to deal with, especially when they start boasting that they can easily beat the WR and little do they know that the rest of us dont care and just want some good competition. Which is why i usually race in CTRA and not as much in FM anymore.

Besides, Kyoto oval is immensely boring (and poorly designed). If we had Daytona, Talladega, Bristol, Pocono and Martinsville (or it's equivalent) then ovals would be the only thing i'd be racing in LFS. But unless LFS adds tracks like those, oval racing is best left in rFactor and NASCAR 2003

LMAO! i had a sneeking suspision i was gona get flamed to heII and back for that post

Quote from Gabkicks :

ovals arent always highspeed. on some tighter tracks that actually require you to intentionally slow down, Stock cars from the nascar series struggle to stay above 100mph. there's weight shifting and balancing of throttle and steering involved in oval racing as well.

That's not true, in talladega, daytona and many other superspeedways the cars go average 180 (jeff gordon's car peaked 200)

Quote from Chrisuu01 :

Whel i say it both has good sides

Oval: harcore speed pedal to the metall!!!

LOL OMG that is so stereotype. Gees, i can guarantee you that you cannot go full throttle ANYWHERE in Bristol or Martinsville. Those tracks are only .5 miles (go figure). In fact, braking in Bristol is insane (u have to brake hard or else u'll hit the wall, but if u brake too hard u'll spin out)

Quote from lizardfolk :

That's not true, in talladega, daytona and many other superspeedways the cars go average 180 (jeff gordon's car peaked 200)



LOL OMG that is so stereotype. Gees, i can guarantee you that you cannot go full throttle ANYWHERE in Bristol or Martinsville. Those tracks are only .5 miles (go figure). In fact, braking in Bristol is insane (u have to brake hard or else u'll hit the wall, but if u brake too hard u'll spin out)

Yeah ive played a indy ful motion sim today at the shoping centre it was a momo comercial stunt
quite cool i drove pikes peak it wasnt real hardcor speed involved veery much timing and it was quite short with insane bankings

But i also drove the Indanapolis Motor speedway that was quite cool

People who haven't tried oval racing can't say so much about it.
At first I thought that oval racing was so boring to watch and I couldn't understand that people actually liked it. Racing at the FM servers didn't change that to much. The problem with FM was probably the short races - only 8 laps, and all the people who liked to crash. But things started to change when i heard of a rFactor mod called "VHR Stockar". The feel was really good and i found i very serious. I love the feeling when you are "trapped" around 20 cars and going 300 km/h in the turns. After i've played the game NASCAR became so much more exciting to watch on TV. So if I can change, everyone can. A tip to all (wannabe) NASCAR fans is to try the mod.

Quote from Chrisuu01 :

But i also drove the Indanapolis Motor speedway that was quite cool

I really dont like Indy. Mainly because it's a bit boring for me. In a stock car, Indy is one of those places where you barely get off the throttle and it can get boring sometimes. But if you fall into a sleep you'll definitely slam the wall.

Quote from lummz :

People who haven't tried oval racing can't say so much about it.
At first I thought that oval racing was so boring to watch and I couldn't understand that people actually liked it. Racing at the FM servers didn't change that to much. The problem with FM was probably the short races - only 8 laps, and all the people who liked to crash. But things started to change when i heard of a rFactor mod called "VHR Stockar". The feel was really good and i found i very serious. I love the feeling when you are "trapped" around 20 cars and going 300 km/h in the turns. After i've played the game NASCAR became so much more exciting to watch on TV. So if I can change, everyone can. A tip to all (wannabe) NASCAR fans is to try the mod.

FM was boring. but the stock car mods in rF are really fun Really, when it comes down to it. A person who hates ovals are either closed minded or just ignorant.

People who are open minded and try a race with a full field of stock cars will understand the entertainment value of it. A person may not agree with it, but atleast he'll understand why people like ovals.

Quote from lizardfolk :

I really dont like Indy. Mainly because it's a bit boring for me. In a stock car, Indy is one of those places where you barely get off the throttle and it can get boring sometimes. But if you fall into a sleep you'll definitely slam the wall.



FM was boring. but the stock car mods in rF are really fun Really, when it comes down to it. A person who hates ovals are either closed minded or just ignorant.

People who are open minded and try a race with a full field of stock cars will understand the entertainment value of it. A person may not agree with it, but atleast he'll understand why people like ovals.

Whel falinga sleep in a ful motion simulatorr thats lest you feel the bumps lol i dont think so

i could sleep caus the surface of that track isnt smooth

Quote from lizardfolk :

That's not true, in talladega, daytona and many other superspeedways the cars go average 180 (jeff gordon's car peaked 200)



LOL OMG that is so stereotype. Gees, i can guarantee you that you cannot go full throttle ANYWHERE in Bristol or Martinsville. Those tracks are only .5 miles (go figure). In fact, braking in Bristol is insane (u have to brake hard or else u'll hit the wall, but if u brake too hard u'll spin out)

they go closer to 195 on the superspeedways, not 180. they'd actually be going 220-230 if they didn't have to run restrictor plates on the big tracks.

and you definitely hit full throttle on EVERY track on the circuit. if you mean they don't hit their top speed at bristol and martinsville, then that is true.

Quote from lizardfolk :

That's not true, in talladega, daytona and many other superspeedways the cars go average 180 (jeff gordon's car peaked 200)

how am i wrong? on shorter tracks like bristol, stock cars dont hit 180. the average speed is under 120mph at bristol iirc.
How can you say i'm wrong and then prove my point later on in the same post?