Hi all! I've had this problem for a long time where either I get the core temperature to be at optimum (bright green) but have the surface bright red or have it so that the surface is at optimum and the core is freezing(blue) so how can I get them to both be at optimum?
how can I get the core to equal the surface temp?
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how can I get the core to equal the surface temp?
I'm probably wrong, but how does the core actually matter? The surface is the bit on the road, and thus the only bit that matters...?
What Jakg said. The inside air temperature only affects the dynamic pressure of the tire and the rate at which the rubber's temperature changes. The hotter the inside air is, the slower the rubber that contacts the road cools down.
Amen
yep exactly, thats why i would love to see warm up laps added as a server option for the leaugues, a few warm up laps does this ive tried it offline and it works if done right and tire wear is really good, "core temps" or tire pressures are at there best, tire gives loads more grip....
i think it would be grate to have this feature, make the league races more fun too, and the better you are at warming ya tires will give you an advantage in race, cus its not easy to do right...
i think it would be grate to have this feature, make the league races more fun too, and the better you are at warming ya tires will give you an advantage in race, cus its not easy to do right...
I'm not sure you understood correctly, Gizz. Warm air in the tire is bad. You want the inside air temperature to be as cool as possible and the rubber temperature as close to optimum as possible (on average over the course of the tire's life).
hhhhmmm not sure i agree forbin, when you come from the pits, the tire pressues you specify in the pits is not what you get, once the inside of the tire worms up "light green" you have optimum PSI or what you specified in the setup...
i could be wrong here but i have done tests after tests on this and i find a tire will give more grip when the inside tire temp is optimum, tire wear is calmed down by some margin.., and the surface temp heats up a less erratic...
ive noticed the biggest advantage is in accelerating out of turns and under braking, the grip is more than noticable, to be honest i found its a waste of time building a online RACE set, and doing what i said above becasue the car handles completly different.
plus i thought that was what the OP was asking? again im in the middle of decorating and the wife is giving no margin here so i may have read wrong
i could be wrong here but i have done tests after tests on this and i find a tire will give more grip when the inside tire temp is optimum, tire wear is calmed down by some margin.., and the surface temp heats up a less erratic...
ive noticed the biggest advantage is in accelerating out of turns and under braking, the grip is more than noticable, to be honest i found its a waste of time building a online RACE set, and doing what i said above becasue the car handles completly different.
plus i thought that was what the OP was asking? again im in the middle of decorating and the wife is giving no margin here so i may have read wrong
I know that, from my extensive experience in league racing in the FZR, FO8, and BF1, the actual rubber of the tire has a temperature cycle to it.
At the start of a race with R2's (85 degrees optimal), the starting temperature is 65 degrees. Let's say that, at the start of the 2nd lap, your tires are at about 80 degrees, very close to optimal, but the air in the tire is still blue. Chances are, a very good driver would be able to run a near-WR lap on the second lap if it weren't for all the fuel he's carrying. When the 3rd lap comes around, the tires warm up to about 95 degrees and the air temp is just starting to turn green. Although you've just burned off a lap's worth of fuel, all other things being equal, this lap will be nowhere near as fast as the second. On the 4th lap, the tires heat up to 105 degrees, and the air temp is bright green. This lap will be even slower as the rubber heats up well beyond the optimal temperature.
As the laps go by, the rubber of the tire wears away and gets thinner. Eventually they fall back down to about 85-90 degrees, the optimal temperature, with the inner air temp turning dark blue again. Furthermore, lots of fuel has been burned off, so the car is much lighter. You will almost certainly see the fastest laps at this stage of the race, all other things being equal.
I've seen this time and time again and I've exploited it very successfully in league races. Also, as for tire pressures, generally lower means more grip, and the colder the air temperature, the lower the pressure, so I honestly don't see how you could possibly have more grip with warmer air temps.
At the start of a race with R2's (85 degrees optimal), the starting temperature is 65 degrees. Let's say that, at the start of the 2nd lap, your tires are at about 80 degrees, very close to optimal, but the air in the tire is still blue. Chances are, a very good driver would be able to run a near-WR lap on the second lap if it weren't for all the fuel he's carrying. When the 3rd lap comes around, the tires warm up to about 95 degrees and the air temp is just starting to turn green. Although you've just burned off a lap's worth of fuel, all other things being equal, this lap will be nowhere near as fast as the second. On the 4th lap, the tires heat up to 105 degrees, and the air temp is bright green. This lap will be even slower as the rubber heats up well beyond the optimal temperature.
As the laps go by, the rubber of the tire wears away and gets thinner. Eventually they fall back down to about 85-90 degrees, the optimal temperature, with the inner air temp turning dark blue again. Furthermore, lots of fuel has been burned off, so the car is much lighter. You will almost certainly see the fastest laps at this stage of the race, all other things being equal.
I've seen this time and time again and I've exploited it very successfully in league races. Also, as for tire pressures, generally lower means more grip, and the colder the air temperature, the lower the pressure, so I honestly don't see how you could possibly have more grip with warmer air temps.
forbin please dont think im trying to tell you your bread and butter, i hate having these discrepences with driver vastly more experianced than me , matter of time before ya get ya ass handed to ya 
...
but i find it interesting all the same...
as the OP said, core temps coming up slower than surface temps and visa versa, and he wants to get them to raise in temp as closely as possible, now i 100% agree with your above post as regards the tire cycles BUT.....
as you said in the 1st e.g .....2nd lap tires about 80 degrees, (near optimum) and the inside of the tire is still blue.... this is what im trying to get at.... lets take your e.g (which i agree with) but lets say the core temp was not blue (cold) and we managed to get it warm (dark/light green) i find you get a lot more grip, its just surface temps nautraly come up quicker than core temps, ....
do you see what i mean??? in race situation now its impossible to do this because you have no time to get the core up to temp before race its BLUE... but if you go offline and manage to warm up the core without heating up the surface to mutch (equalize the ratio a bit more) it is possible and i find you get better grip when the surface AND the core are at optimum, rather than surface at optimum and core still blue (cold)....
am i making a prat outa myself here
...but i find it interesting all the same...
as the OP said, core temps coming up slower than surface temps and visa versa, and he wants to get them to raise in temp as closely as possible, now i 100% agree with your above post as regards the tire cycles BUT.....
as you said in the 1st e.g .....2nd lap tires about 80 degrees, (near optimum) and the inside of the tire is still blue.... this is what im trying to get at.... lets take your e.g (which i agree with) but lets say the core temp was not blue (cold) and we managed to get it warm (dark/light green) i find you get a lot more grip, its just surface temps nautraly come up quicker than core temps, ....
do you see what i mean??? in race situation now its impossible to do this because you have no time to get the core up to temp before race its BLUE... but if you go offline and manage to warm up the core without heating up the surface to mutch (equalize the ratio a bit more) it is possible and i find you get better grip when the surface AND the core are at optimum, rather than surface at optimum and core still blue (cold)....
am i making a prat outa myself here
Well, the main reason why I made this topic was obviously to find out if I can get them to be both at optimum 
as I stated in my original post but another reason is because of race distance. As Forbin stated, the tires go from cold, to optimum and (sometimes) over optimum and then cool down again. What I'm worried about is when the tyre starts cooling down again mid race. I just though that if the core is cold, that means that I would be in a position where the surface temperature starts to freeze and then it would seem almost impossible to get them to optimum temperature because the core of the tyre is cold. Thats what I'm worried about and it would just make sense that if the core temperature is around optimum that the tyre would maintain the temperature since the core is more less the main part of the tyre however, to get the core at optimum, the surface temperature has to be sacrificed since it soars nearly 30 degrees above optimum. I think the best way to find out really is to test which I'll do soon.
as I stated in my original post but another reason is because of race distance. As Forbin stated, the tires go from cold, to optimum and (sometimes) over optimum and then cool down again. What I'm worried about is when the tyre starts cooling down again mid race. I just though that if the core is cold, that means that I would be in a position where the surface temperature starts to freeze and then it would seem almost impossible to get them to optimum temperature because the core of the tyre is cold. Thats what I'm worried about and it would just make sense that if the core temperature is around optimum that the tyre would maintain the temperature since the core is more less the main part of the tyre however, to get the core at optimum, the surface temperature has to be sacrificed since it soars nearly 30 degrees above optimum. I think the best way to find out really is to test which I'll do soon.Lower core temp is better for cornering but high core temp is better for acceleration and deceleration (possibly).
If your tyre pressure is high, you will go down the straights much faster than with lower pressures. This is most noticeable in the BF1 from my experiences. However if the pressures are too low you'll get drag(With the ground not air) from the tyres and your cornering speed will decrease however i only found this to happen at high speeds. Low speeds, low pressure.
In most cases lower tyre pressure means more grip and better cornering speed but on high speed tracks like Westhill, the only track i have experienced this, it's the opposite, low pressure will make you slower thorough the faster corners.
Another thing where general rules dont completely apply is with ARB. Lower ARB is generally better for the slow circuits but if you use low ARB on Westhill, again depending on the car however, you'll have a more UN-stable car through the corners and will slide more, because the weight is shifting all over the place.
So as a summary, Yes softer usually means more grip, but only up to a certain speed. Exceed this speed and you will need to make things harder, suspension and tyre pressures included. Also take into account that tyres only work on their contact patches. Making high cambered set use high tyre pressures doesn't work. So if you do increase pressures to get extra speed through fast corners do one of two things. Reduce camber, or decrease anti roll to maximise the contact patch.
To answer the OP - If you have a greater contact patch then your inner/core tyre temps will increase quicker. I dont worry so much about the core temps because they only come into play from my experiences when your tyre is under immense load and pops after 30 mins (KY Oval) In which case you want a lower core temp to reduce the pressure from inside the tyre on the tyre walls BUT, nearing the end of a stint you want an optimal core temp because lower core temps will increase the contact patch and tyre movement, thus increasing the tyre wear and eventually turning what little rubber you have left into it's final marbles.
PS - This isn't the gospel, this is just from my experiences in making setups. Westhill is a great track for learning to set a car up.
If your tyre pressure is high, you will go down the straights much faster than with lower pressures. This is most noticeable in the BF1 from my experiences. However if the pressures are too low you'll get drag(With the ground not air) from the tyres and your cornering speed will decrease however i only found this to happen at high speeds. Low speeds, low pressure.
In most cases lower tyre pressure means more grip and better cornering speed but on high speed tracks like Westhill, the only track i have experienced this, it's the opposite, low pressure will make you slower thorough the faster corners.
Another thing where general rules dont completely apply is with ARB. Lower ARB is generally better for the slow circuits but if you use low ARB on Westhill, again depending on the car however, you'll have a more UN-stable car through the corners and will slide more, because the weight is shifting all over the place.
So as a summary, Yes softer usually means more grip, but only up to a certain speed. Exceed this speed and you will need to make things harder, suspension and tyre pressures included. Also take into account that tyres only work on their contact patches. Making high cambered set use high tyre pressures doesn't work. So if you do increase pressures to get extra speed through fast corners do one of two things. Reduce camber, or decrease anti roll to maximise the contact patch.
To answer the OP - If you have a greater contact patch then your inner/core tyre temps will increase quicker. I dont worry so much about the core temps because they only come into play from my experiences when your tyre is under immense load and pops after 30 mins (KY Oval) In which case you want a lower core temp to reduce the pressure from inside the tyre on the tyre walls BUT, nearing the end of a stint you want an optimal core temp because lower core temps will increase the contact patch and tyre movement, thus increasing the tyre wear and eventually turning what little rubber you have left into it's final marbles.
PS - This isn't the gospel, this is just from my experiences in making setups. Westhill is a great track for learning to set a car up.
Warming tires up is to warm the surface of the rubber so it becomes more sticky. The actual pressure inside a tire isn't important, so long as it has been correctly accounted for heat change. AFAIK LFS doesn't have dynamic pressure anyway.
I'd quite like to see the tire warmers disappear on everything except the FO8/BF1 because most cars IRL don't use tire warmers.
It does. And I believe what you set in the garage is the cold pressure (the one you 'spawn' with, which actually isn't exactly 'cold' either).
Half right. You set the 'hot' pressures in the garage (the tyres are pre-heated to compound optimum while in the garage).
You learn something new every day 
Correction: you were right. Or at least, I was wrong.
how can I get the core to equal the surface temp?
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